Fogbow

noblepa wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:04 am

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:14 am

bob wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:13 pm
In theory, an appellate court find reversible error. And that the error was attributable to the state, such that double jeopardy would apply.

In theory.

It’s not universally true that an appellate court “can’t just decide he’s not guilty.”

At least one state (Texas?) has factual sufficiency review. And we have it in the military. We get to argue that the evidence, even if legally sufficient, is not factually sufficient. The Court of Criminal Appeals can weigh the credibility of witnesses. They don’t defer to the trial court; they only take into consideration that they did not see or hear the testimony.

And, even in states that don't allow such review, if an appeals court rules that, as a matter of law, the facts of the crime do not meet the criteria for the charge the defendant was convicted of, and the state chose to not charge a lesser, included offense, then the defendant can't be retried, due to double jeopardy.

That, in effect, would set the defendant free.

I think that, in the Chauvin case, the prosecutors tried to make their case as appeal-proof as possible. If an appeals court reverses the 2nd degree murder conviction, he can still be sentenced for the 3rd degree murder charge.

RVInit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:38 pm Many of us thought we had turned a corner when Obama was elected president. I remember how I never felt more proud of the United States than I did that night after it became clear that Obama had won the election. Sadly, it didn't take long for the backlash. I totally expect serious and violent backlash. But we cannot let that stop the momentum. It's time to clean up our police departments. Lots and lots of bad apples need to be removed from police departments all across this nation. I love all the people who are threatening that lots of police might resign. Good. The kind that would resign because of accountability are the kind we need to get rid of. So, I say let the resignations begin. They are not going to come soon enough for me.

northland10 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:11 pm
As I have mentioned previously, I see the racists and white nationalist ideologies as a disease/virus/infection that is in the throughs of dying. What we have been experiencing since Obama is that the disease is seeing its demise and is lashing out, attempting to strike back on its final breaths (take a look at dying organizations/clubs from time to time and see what looks like a resurgence but with nastiness just before it collapses). It is also, in many ways, traveling the stages of grief. They see the end coming and are desperate to hold on to what they think they have known (people like to pick the deadly path because it seems old and comfortable instead of the new that brings them to a new life).

I have been poo-poo'd for this in the past as some see it as racism and hate coming back. Yes, it tries but it has not yet succeeded and with each new attempt, they lose more.
Much more work is necessary, but never forget, the march continues to go forward. Freedom and liberty continue to win out over fear and hate. Always remember to stick your head briefly out of the trench, to see all that has been accomplished so far, and then press on.

Chilidog wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:20 am

Kendra wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:30 am https://twitter. com/atrupar/status/1384688301962141697

What a total asshole

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:51 am

noblepa wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:04 am

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:14 am

It’s not universally true that an appellate court “can’t just decide he’s not guilty.”

At least one state (Texas?) has factual sufficiency review. And we have it in the military. We get to argue that the evidence, even if legally sufficient, is not factually sufficient. The Court of Criminal Appeals can weigh the credibility of witnesses. They don’t defer to the trial court; they only take into consideration that they did not see or hear the testimony.

And, even in states that don't allow such review, if an appeals court rules that, as a matter of law, the facts of the crime do not meet the criteria for the charge the defendant was convicted of, and the state chose to not charge a lesser, included offense, then the defendant can't be retried, due to double jeopardy.

That, in effect, would set the defendant free.

I think that, in the Chauvin case, the prosecutors tried to make their case as appeal-proof as possible. If an appeals court reverses the 2nd degree murder conviction, he can still be sentenced for the 3rd degree murder charge.

Not necessarily. It would depend on the nature of the error. If the greater offense has four elements and the lesser offense has three, and the failure of proof involved that extra element, the appellate court could (depending on that State’s rules), affirm the lesser included offense.

Kendra wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:07 am Watched a bit of Fox this morning. They're really struggling with their narrative on the verdict. I *think* they're saying we leftists are happy with the verdict because now there's no rioting and looting and burning (Kilmeade and Hegseth seemed unhappy about that turn of events).

You can get some samples here: https://twitter.com/revrrlewis

Slim Cognito wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:35 am

Kendra wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:07 am Watched a bit of Fox this morning. They're really struggling with their narrative on the verdict. I *think* they're saying we leftists are happy with the verdict because now there's no rioting and looting and burning (Kilmeade and Hegseth seemed unhappy about that turn of events).

You can get some samples here: https://twitter.com/revrrlewis

You know they were praying not just for an acquittal, but for Mnpls to burn to the ground. Anything to get the story off the insurrection, even if people died.

Patagoniagirl wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:48 am For historical reference.

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:56 am

RVInit wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:38 pm Many of us thought we had turned a corner when Obama was elected president. I remember how I never felt more proud of the United States than I did that night after it became clear that Obama had won the election. Sadly, it didn't take long for the backlash. I totally expect serious and violent backlash. But we cannot let that stop the momentum. It's time to clean up our police departments. Lots and lots of bad apples need to be removed from police departments all across this nation. I love all the people who are threatening that lots of police might resign. Good. The kind that would resign because of accountability are the kind we need to get rid of. So, I say let the resignations begin. They are not going to come soon enough for me.

noblepa wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:56 am [

I realize that such rulings are somewhat rare. Usually, the appeals court simply sets aside the conviction and remands the case to the lower court for retrial, but there are circumstances in which a retrial is not possible, due to double jeopardy, so the defendant must be released. I don't think that this will happen in this case.

Kendra wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:42 am

Slim Cognito wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:35 am

Kendra wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:07 am Watched a bit of Fox this morning. They're really struggling with their narrative on the verdict. I *think* they're saying we leftists are happy with the verdict because now there's no rioting and looting and burning (Kilmeade and Hegseth seemed unhappy about that turn of events).

You can get some samples here: https://twitter.com/revrrlewis

You know they were praying not just for an acquittal, but for Mnpls to burn to the ground. Anything to get the story off the insurrection, even if people died.

Yep

Derek Chauvin is in a restricted housing unit in prison for his safety

zekeb wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:12 pm Chauvin proclaimed himself to be judge, jury and executioner.

zekeb wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:15 pm It's too bad George can't come back from the dead and see Chauvin now.

In the hours after a guilty verdict was announced in the murder trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin, an exclusive USA TODAY/Ipsos snap poll found Americans overwhelmingly approved of the jury's finding.

The survey found 71% of Americans agreed Chauvin was guilty, and most Americans surveyed followed at least some coverage of the three-week trial. When participants were identified by political affiliation, Democrats strongly concurred, at 85%, with Republicans at 55% and independents at 71%.