Trump's Trade Follicy

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RVInit
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1751

Post by RVInit » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:46 pm

neeneko wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:58 pm
RVInit wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:27 pm
I mean, do they actually think they are going to magically get their farms back and their finances will be restored somewhere down the line? How have they managed to stay in business for this long, given a seemingly complete lack of ability to think clearly?
I think for the most part, it does not matter what the farmers think. Like coal miners, they are more a story to present to larger voting blocks as opposed to a block of any importance themselves.

Now, the agricultural lobby is powerful, but they are not made up of the type of farmers that are trotted out for these stories. They are again the narrative presented, but what they experience is irrelevant.
Maybe I didn't state it very clearly, but my comment has more to do with people who will continue to defend, vote for, and insist that Trump knows what he is doing at the same time they are perfectly aware that Trump's policies are what put them out of business. I would hope that if someone I voted for put me out of business that I would have the sense to not vote for that person again.
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1752

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:50 pm

Dotus with his small family empire had never need to learn to past his single industry, formerly a small and localized segment of the construction industry, more recently on a very limited sector of the hospitality industry. Selling his "brand" does not require any learning. So thinking (to use the term loosely) in terms of national economy and accross industry is lightyears away from his small brain.

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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1753

Post by Gregg » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:36 pm

neeneko wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:58 pm
RVInit wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:27 pm
I mean, do they actually think they are going to magically get their farms back and their finances will be restored somewhere down the line? How have they managed to stay in business for this long, given a seemingly complete lack of ability to think clearly?
I think for the most part, it does not matter what the farmers think. Like coal miners, they are more a story to present to larger voting blocks as opposed to a block of any importance themselves.

Now, the agricultural lobby is powerful, but they are not made up of the type of farmers that are trotted out for these stories. They are again the narrative presented, but what they experience is irrelevant.
They're the kind of farmers who show up at the sheriff's auction and buy farms for a song after they've been foreclosed on, with money from Bonds issued on Wall Street. They're not big at the local coffee shop where the AP shows up to interview the poor suffering farmers, but they are listed on the Stock Exchange, or owned by hedge funds.
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1754

Post by Volkonski » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:25 pm

Europe slams 'exaggerated' US tariff threat and prepares to retaliate

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/09/europe- ... rated.html
The EU has hit back at new U.S. proposals to target European goods with tariffs, following a World Trade Organization (WTO) ruling over subsidies for Airbus.

Trade tensions between the EU and U.S. flared Monday after the U.S. said it's considering $11 billion worth of retaliatory tariffs on a range of goods in response to illegal subsidies the EU granted to the aerospace firm.

:snippity:

On Monday, the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative said it would slap tariffs on EU goods ranging from aircraft to fish, dairy products to binoculars, olive oil and wine, according to a preliminary list.

:snippity:

The European Commission spokesman also said Tuesday that Brussels is ready to retaliate in kind, noting that in the parallel Boeing dispute, "the determination of EU retaliation rights is also coming closer and the EU will request the WTO-appointed arbitrator to determine the EU's retaliation rights."
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1755

Post by Volkonski » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:37 pm

Daniel Dale

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As talks falter over the removal of Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs, the Canadian government is preparing to announce retaliatory tariffs on additional U.S. products. The ambassador says they could include pork, wine, apples and ethanol:
https://t.co/1lfa8TSc6j
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1756

Post by ZekeB » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:55 pm

Resulting in more farmers voting Republican in the next election.
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1757

Post by MN-Skeptic » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:14 pm

ZekeB wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:55 pm
Resulting in more farmers voting Republican in the next election.
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1758

Post by Jim » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:15 pm

ZekeB wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:55 pm
Resulting in more farmers voting Republican in the next election.
Yep, but the way Trump is going, there will be many fewer farmers to vote.

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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1759

Post by Turtle » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:31 pm

They can always just go farm for coal.

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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1760

Post by Janny in Texas » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:42 pm

ZekeB wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:55 pm
Resulting in more farmers voting Republican in the next election.
:lol:

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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1761

Post by Lani » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:04 am

China Considers U.S. Request to Shift Tariffs on Farm Goods
China is considering a U.S. request to shift some tariffs on key agricultural goods to other products so the Trump administration can sell any eventual trade deal as a win for farmers ahead of the 2020 election, people familiar with the situation said.
:snippity:
The people didn’t specify which other goods would receive higher tariffs instead of agricultural products. Other top imports included aircraft engines and parts, semiconductors, passenger cars and chemicals.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... farm-goods
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1762

Post by Slim Cognito » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:31 am

Lani wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:04 am
China Considers U.S. Request to Shift Tariffs on Farm Goods
China is considering a U.S. request to shift some tariffs on key agricultural goods to other products so the Trump administration can sell any eventual trade deal as a win for farmers ahead of the 2020 election, people familiar with the situation said.
:snippity:
The people didn’t specify which other goods would receive higher tariffs instead of agricultural products. Other top imports included aircraft engines and parts, semiconductors, passenger cars and chemicals.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... farm-goods
Not sure if that's a win or just shifting the damage around to hurt more groups of people.
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1763

Post by Lani » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:46 am

I assume it's to win back farmers and claim victory over China, while stiffing the manufacturers. So much winning!
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1764

Post by RTH10260 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:33 am

Lani wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:04 am
China Considers U.S. Request to Shift Tariffs on Farm Goods
China is considering a U.S. request to shift some tariffs on key agricultural goods to other products so the Trump administration can sell any eventual trade deal as a win for farmers ahead of the 2020 election, people familiar with the situation said.
:snippity:
The people didn’t specify which other goods would receive higher tariffs instead of agricultural products. Other top imports included aircraft engines and parts, semiconductors, passenger cars and chemicals.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... farm-goods
IOW the US is losing the deal when they need to ask for favours.

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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1765

Post by RTH10260 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:55 am

not necessarily an administration problem, but dotus does bully other countries


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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1766

Post by Sam the Centipede » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:46 pm

The video is correct about the US cars being perceived as large, gas-guzzling and unreliable, and that perception persists in Europe too.

But even if that perception could be effectively countered, an obvious question is "why would a Japanese person wish to buy an American car?" First, as the video states, many customers are buying tiny cars, a sector ignored by US companies, so they're not a target. The majority of the rest also want small (by US standards) cars. So why would a customer choose a US make over a Japanese make for his small-but-not-tiny car? With the Japanese make the customer gets a known product with extensive dealer networks, excellent customer service, easy parts availability, design to Japanese tastes, etc. Given that US makes can't provide those advantages, the product would need to offer significant attractions in design or desirability compared with the domestic product. It ain't gonna happen.

In such a market, it's not enough to be as good as the established, well-reputed, local brands. There has to be something more to break initial inertia. Japan broke into European and American markets by offering better build quality, reliability and fuel economy than domestic manufacturers. What USPs or advantages can US manufacturers offer? None, I think, except to the SUV and truck market.

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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1767

Post by Gregg » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:29 pm

The first view is vastly over simplified, Sam, your view makes valid points but many of them are more perception than fact.

For instance, Ford was doing business in Japan before Nissan, Toyota or Honda were ever founded, but that's admittedly ancient history. Quality, to be honest, is about a wash for almost all the car companies within a like market segment, ie, a Toyota is as good as a Ford which is as good as a Honda which is as good as a Toyota but none of the above is as good as an Aston Martin and none are as bad as the cheap builds most Americans don't even know exist, like Tata, BAIC, Great Wall and Zotye...

Ford, more than the other 2 screwed up a good business in Asia, and while we're still doing business in China (sometimes good business, sometimes not) it hurts me to know that we've left the market in Japan and Australia both, for cost and competitive reasons but mostly because we weren't doing things well that we do pretty good here and in Europe.

I'd also mention that what we sell in Europe bears little resemblance to what we sell in North America. Some of the cars are pretty similar, though with different names (A Fusion I think is Mondeo etc..) but some are much different, ever see a Ford Ka (think Smart car).
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1768

Post by Sam the Centipede » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:59 pm

Thanks Gregg! I appreciate that a lot of models of compacts especially are standard (ish) around the world, but often with different names*.

I don't think you have given a reason though why a Japanese consumer should switch to a US oe European make unless they were offered an unbeatable deal on price, enough to overcome inertia. And that sort of predatory pricing probably wouldn't be welcome, would it?

I just don't see a route into that msrket for companies that aren't already there.

* Honda's Fitta model was relabeled as the Jazz in Europe when someone discovered that Fitta is a not very polite word for, ah, lady parts in the Scandinavian languages.

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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1769

Post by Gregg » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:42 pm

I wasn't so much trying to say why should, I was pretty much agreeing that they don't.
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1770

Post by HST's Ghost » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:09 pm

Off Topic
Interesting comments. I worked at Mazda as a translator (repair manuals - I was far away from any important action) in the early 2000s when Ford was heavily partnering with them and Ford installed a young CEO who turned Mazda around rapidly. Not sure what happened but Ford slowly pulled away and lowered their investment.
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1771

Post by Gregg » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:50 pm

Mark Fields, he took over from Mulally and lasted about a few years, see my other post about idiots running companies.

He took over what was at the time the most successful company in the business, at least in North America, and the first thing he wanted to do was change stuff, write new mission statements and otherwise make sure he had something to point to that was what HE did to make us so good.

First, don't fix what ain't broke. Second, I've been through dozens of ''Mission Statements" between the Ford one, the Powertrain one, the Plant one, the Team one....all of them I think a pretty lame waste of time. I have a little sign at work that has what I think our mission statement should have been, top to bottom, from 1903 until now...Ford Motor Company - We Build Cars.

No frilly "Providing Sustainable Transportation Mobility Solutions that delight our customers, enhance the experience of our stakeholders, and strive to leave our environment better than we found it" or whatever. We even got too trendy to call it a Mission Statement, now its our ''Vision" currently the "Vision" is "People working together as a lean, global enterprise to make people's lives better through automotive and mobility leadership.''

Somewhere, someone who makes a lot more than me got paid for thinking of that. And I'm paid damn well, thank you.
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1772

Post by Addie » Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:03 pm

New York Times
Trump’s Washing Machine Tariffs Stung Consumers While Lifting Corporate Profits

New research shows how a move meant to aid domestic manufacturers instead padded profits and raised prices on a wide variety of laundry items.


President Trump’s decision to impose tariffs on imported washing machines has had an odd effect: It raised prices on washing machines, as expected, but also drove up the cost of clothes dryers, which rose by $92 last year.

What appears to have happened, according to new research from economists at the University of Chicago and the Federal Reserve, is a case study in how a measure meant to help domestic factory workers can rebound on American consumers, creating unexpected costs and leaving shoppers with a sky-high bill for every factory job created.

Research to be released on Monday by the economists Aaron Flaaen, of the Fed, and Ali Hortacsu and Felix Tintelnot, of Chicago, estimates that consumers bore between 125 percent and 225 percent of the costs of the washing machine tariffs. The authors calculate that the tariffs brought in $82 million to the United States Treasury, while raising consumer prices by $1.5 billion.

And while the tariffs did encourage foreign companies to shift more of their manufacturing to the United States and created about 1,800 new jobs, the researchers conclude that those came at a steep cost: about $817,000 per job.

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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1773

Post by Mikedunford » Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:13 pm

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:46 pm
The video is correct about the US cars being perceived as large, gas-guzzling and unreliable, and that perception persists in Europe too.
A Ford Ranger is a baby pickup in the States. I don't have anything against it - I'm probably getting either a Ranger or (sorry, Gregg) a Colorado next month - but it'll look a little puny next to the F-150s that are standard in my neighborhood. It's also a *much* larger vehicle than I'd want to drive in London. Or in Salisbury. Or on most of the B-roads I've been on in England and Wales. Or on a lot of the tiny D-roads I've driven on in the French countryside. Or...
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1774

Post by ZekeB » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Mikedunford wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:13 pm
A Ford Ranger is a baby pickup in the States. I don't have anything against it - I'm probably getting either a Ranger or (sorry, Gregg) a Colorado next month - but it'll look a little puny next to the F-150s that are standard in my neighborhood. It's also a *much* larger vehicle than I'd want to drive in London. Or in Salisbury. Or on most of the B-roads I've been on in England and Wales. Or on a lot of the tiny D-roads I've driven on in the French countryside. Or...
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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#1775

Post by sad-cafe » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:39 pm

before fat Donnie could screw up more shit, we went ahead and bought our next vehicle. We had planned to wait another 6 months, but we had our 05 since Oct 04 so we drove it 15 years. Things kind of started giving us signs it was time...then the threat of fat Donnie pissing more people off and making steel tariffs we took the plunge.

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