How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

How Long Will Ryan Bundy last?

Voir Dire
19
16%
Opening Statements
33
28%
First Day of Testimony
25
21%
Second Day of Testimony
16
14%
Before End of Testimony
20
17%
Closing
5
4%
 
Total votes: 118

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Notorial Dissent
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#26

Post by Notorial Dissent »

HumbleScribe wrote:Aren't we selling Cryan short? I just know he will be the best-dressed defendant come Wednesday. Snappy three-piece suit with striped silk tie and matching pocket square. Tassel loafers on his feet. He will have his zipped leather briefcase that holds all his defense strategy. He will dazzle the jury with his sartorial splendor and his poise at the lectern..

Or not.
Or mostly not, I don't know if he even owns a real suit that doesn't have sparkles and Howdy Doody on it.

If the judge is going to do voir dire, then first day of trial could be it if he makes it through the Tue marathon hearing. I would be interested if he actually submitted any real usable questions to be asked, probably was too busy to do that either. I can't imagine him making it through voir dire without having a tantrum about something, even if the judge is asking the questions.
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Maybenaut
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#27

Post by Maybenaut »

I voted first day of testimony, but I think there's a chance he might want his pro se status revoked. So far it's been file a bunch of crap and have it denied. But the pace of an actual trial is different. He's not going to know what's going on half of the time, and when it's his turn to cross-examine witnesses and every single question he asks is met with an objection, he's going to get rattled. So I voted first day, but I really think the triggering event will come when he tries unsuccessfully to cross-examine witnesses.

ETA: I think this is true even if the judge requires all questions to be asked through one attorney per witness (I think I read a while back that that was the plan, but I may be misremembering)..
"Hey! You know, we left this England place because it was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too." - Thomas Jefferson

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Notorial Dissent
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#28

Post by Notorial Dissent »

CRyan is way in over his head now, and when the trial actually gets going he will be drowning. There is no way I can see that he can even begin to make an attempt at keeping up. He hasn't prepared, other than to do a lot of whining, he has no idea what is coming or what to do about it, and he is an egotistical three year old. Not a good combination when you are facing multiple felonies, all with what I think is going to be dead bang solid evidence of commission, and you're just generally stupid to begin with. He wanted to go pro se, and was warned and attempts made to get him to reconsider, and he didn't. So I don't think he will have a good time at trial whether he has help or not. I don't think any of the rest are going to do much better since it sounds like they were all busy preparing for a case that is never going to come up.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Epectitus
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#29

Post by Epectitus »

I vote opening statements. He will open his mouth. Something will come out. It will be over.
"Hell, I would wear a dress and ruby red slippers all year if we can prove this" - Mike Zullo

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Whip
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#30

Post by Whip »

Dan1100 wrote:
Somerset wrote:
Butterfly Bilderberg wrote:I voted for Day Two of the testimony. He'll hold it together throughout the first day. Then he will lie on his bunk in the jail cell and simmer about it all night. The pressure cooker valve will blow on the second day.
I voted for voir dire. Assuming he gets the opportunity to question potential jurors I think he's going to bring up jury nullification and try to poison the jury pool.
I think I read that the judge is going to ask the questions.

That's why I voted opening statements.
I can easily see him Image during voir dire and losing it. He just needs to disagree with what's going on.

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Whip
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#31

Post by Whip »

ArthurWankspittle wrote:
FenderDeluxe wrote:Five to 10 minutes.
You might have a point. Could the BOTG borrow the timer clock from a nearby drag strip?
damn that's funny

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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#32

Post by aiiPancho »

Ryan's Hail Mary motions suggest he is panicked. The guy is not stable to start with. (Getting dropped to the floor during transport is not normal, thank God.) His brain is in hamster race mode. I voted voir dire but I'll be surprised if he makes it that far.

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Suranis
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#33

Post by Suranis »

Voted Voir Dire simply becasue it has the word Dire in it.
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Mary Quite Contrary
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#34

Post by Mary Quite Contrary »

Suranis wrote:Voted Voir Dire simply becasue it has the word Dire in it.
:yeah: when it happens, and it will happen, it will be awesome.
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#35

Post by Grumpy Old Guy »

I was the first to post "voir dire". I assumed he would go off at the hearing today.

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Jim
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#36

Post by Jim »

I think he'll make it to the first FBI/Federal agent/employee he gets to cross-examine. Then comes the fireworks! :)

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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#37

Post by Mockingbird »

This IANAL voted 1st Day of Testimony, just to split the difference.

I think it will become apparent during opening statements that he's clueless and out to lunch, but I think the judge will let him ramble.

Actual testimony involving witnesses will immediately get so clogged up with objections back and forth that the judge will have no choice but to yank his pro se and attempt to put some structure to things.

The longer she lets him fumble and rant before yanking his pro se will show that he had every reasonable opportunity to conduct his defense his own way.

I think he might last longer than some here are betting. Just so the judge's actions will stand up better before an appeal. I think she'll make him absolutely prove to the 'nth degree that he's irrepairably incompetent.

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ArthurWankspittle
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#38

Post by ArthurWankspittle »

Notorial Dissent wrote:.... even if the judge is asking the questions.
What? Tyranny! The woman gets to ask questions? Doesn't she just sit there quietly while the menfolk talk?
Trump appoints Incitatus to lead corona virus response.
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boots
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#39

Post by boots »

I voted first day too. 1. Judges there are squishay. 2. Voir dire is largely controlled by the Court in this case (though he'll protest and whine some). 3. Opening is something that courts are often "hands off" about. I suspect he'll ramble a mixture of total irrelevancies, policy disagreements, and a few sovcit fantasies that court will instruct the jury to disregard.

But when it gets down to interfering with the progress of the actual testimony, that is when the court will say enough is enough.

Just my 2 cents of .999 pure silver real money.

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TsuDhoNimh
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#40

Post by TsuDhoNimh »

I went for second day of testimony.

for no reason at all.

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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#41

Post by Foggy »

I said second day, because the Butterfly Lady is a genius (and cute). :lol:
For more information, read it again.

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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#42

Post by Samisoul »

ArthurWankspittle wrote:
Notorial Dissent wrote:.... even if the judge is asking the questions.
What? Tyranny! The woman gets to ask questions? Doesn't she just sit there quietly while the menfolk talk?
:rotflmao:

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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#43

Post by boots »

We're almost through with voir dire! Will the tranny be too much for ryan c of the bunny society? Will his loafers spring him into action on Thursday? the suspense is overwhelming...sort of...

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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#44

Post by Beautiful Leaf »

I went with before the close of trial because Judge Brown is going to do her very best to accommodate his right to self representation for as long as possible while trying to prevent a mistrial. In my experience, juries get fed up with a defendant's antics far faster than the judge ever will allowed him/herself to do so. I just wonder if her fellow bench officers have loaned her an additional clerk or two so she can wade through all the muck being filed on a daily basis. (And maybe a few Xanax as well)
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#45

Post by Maybenaut »

I would be very interested to see the statistics on the number of pro se defendants who have managed to get themselves acquitted. I imagine it's fairly low relative to rates of acquittal in general.

It reminds me of the trial of Colin Ferguson, the Long Island Railroad killer, who insisted on representing himself. During cross examination of the witnesses he referred to himself in the third person. A bunch of times he asked witnesses to recount what they saw or what happened next or whatever, and the witnesses responded with, "you shot me." It was bizarre.
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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#46

Post by Burn'em Down »

Beautiful Leaf wrote:I went with before the close of trial because Judge Brown is going to do her very best to accommodate his right to self representation for as long as possible while trying to prevent a mistrial. In my experience, juries get fed up with a defendant's antics far faster than the judge ever will allowed him/herself to do so. I just wonder if her fellow bench officers have loaned her an additional clerk or two so she can wade through all the muck being filed on a daily basis. (And maybe a few Xanax as well)
I think it will be interesting to see just where the limits of Judge Browns patience is. There's a fine line between being ignorant on how things work, looking at both the "idiot" and Mumpot, and delving into outright BS delaying tactics and paper terrorism. Hopefully the idiot will do something so egregious and "unappealable" she has firm grounds to revoke and remove him but I think he's cunning enough and being coached JUST well enough to just keep poking without crossing the line...for awhile.

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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#47

Post by chancery »

An order issued by Judge Brown today (Docket # 1226, posted by rpenner here)and on scribd by realist here exposes a consideration that we haven't discussed much, if at all, namely that if Ryan Bundy "loses his right to proceed pro se and/or if he must be removed from the courtroom" there will be a problem:
"[c]onsidering the complexity of this case and the extraordinary volume of discovery, there is not any realistic chance that replacement standby counsel could be prepared to proceed to trial without a continuance." The court had previously ruled that "a continuance of this matter would severely prejudice the parties and the administration of justice both in these proceedings and in the ongoing proceedings in the District of Nevada."
was misinterpreted by me (see below).

I posted the entire passage in the Oregon trial thread here.

I thought that this passage was interesting enough to break the custom strongly discouraging duplicate postings.

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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#48

Post by Maybenaut »

chancery wrote:An order issued by Judge Brown today (Docket # 1226, posted by rpenner here)and on scribd by realist here exposes a consideration that we haven't discussed much, if at all, namely that if Ryan Bundy "loses his right to proceed pro se and/or if he must be removed from the courtroom" there will be a problem:
"[c]onsidering the complexity of this case and the extraordinary volume of discovery, there is not any realistic chance that replacement standby counsel could be prepared to proceed to trial without a continuance." The court had previously ruled that "a continuance of this matter would severely prejudice the parties and the administration of justice both in these proceedings and in the ongoing proceedings in the District of Nevada."

I posted the entire passage in the Oregon trial thread here.

I thought that this passage was interesting enough to break the custom strongly discouraging duplicate postings.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the problem? If Ryan Bundy loses his pro se status, Lisa Ludwig takes over as counsel. That's why Judge Brown refused to disqualify her as standby counsel.
"Hey! You know, we left this England place because it was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#49

Post by chancery »

Maybenaut wrote:
chancery wrote:An order issued by Judge Brown today (Docket # 1226, posted by rpenner here)and on scribd by realist here exposes a consideration that we haven't discussed much, if at all, namely that if Ryan Bundy "loses his right to proceed pro se and/or if he must be removed from the courtroom" there will be a problem:
"[c]onsidering the complexity of this case and the extraordinary volume of discovery, there is not any realistic chance that replacement standby counsel could be prepared to proceed to trial without a continuance." The court had previously ruled that "a continuance of this matter would severely prejudice the parties and the administration of justice both in these proceedings and in the ongoing proceedings in the District of Nevada."

I posted the entire passage in the Oregon trial thread here.

I thought that this passage was interesting enough to break the custom strongly discouraging duplicate postings.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the problem? If Ryan Bundy loses his pro se status, Lisa Ludwig takes over as counsel. That's why Judge Brown refused to disqualify her as standby counsel.
Sorry, in my haste to post a "scoop," I misread the order. :oops: I assumed that "replacement standby counsel" meant Lisa Ludwig replacing Ryan Bundy. On reflection the Judge was still responding to Bundy's motion to disqualify Ludwig.

Edit: Judge Brown is also giving the motion to disqualify more ink that I would have thought it deserved, but she's obviously thinking ahead about possible appeal issues in the likely event that Bundy loses pro se status.

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Re: How Long Will R. Bundy's Pro Se Status Last Before Being Revoked?

#50

Post by James McMullen »

This is so unfair! You guys over there in nearby time zones will get to witness the crash & burn in at least something close to real time. Over here in Singapore, I'm gonna have to wait until I wake up in the morning to find out the extent of the carnage. Unless I wanna stay up all night, or something. Also, I just can't understand why that wicked jezebel judge won't authorize a live courtroom feed to Sembawong. Doesn't she care about how this trial is impacting my life? I'm burning up my monthly data plan checking in to Fogbow every morning on my commute. This is tyranny! :madguy:

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