New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

User avatar
Plutodog
Posts: 11952
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:11 pm

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#176

Post by Plutodog » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:12 am

Well, I'm glad we're talking. I, for one, don't think the voting was completed when the SCOTUS stopped the re-counting. It was a hard-ball court fight and the Repub's spared no tactics. But when he was elected, he was inaugurated, he was President Bush. I don't think he's all that smart, but that kind of doesn't matter. A lot of the overboard stuff was from the far-far left, not just the far left or left. But under the Constitution, once we went through all the stuff and the inauguration, the person becomes and owns the title of POTUS, whether a liked one or not, IMO. Until/unless he/she's impeached, that remains the case.
The only good Bundy is an Al Bundy.

User avatar
Slartibartfast
Posts: 7047
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:52 pm

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#177

Post by Slartibartfast » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:35 am

John,





Let me be clear--9/11 truthers are every bit as much vile scumbags as birthers are and their allegations against President Bush and Dick the War Criminal are nothing short of heinous. You might have done better to realize that the only comment above which referred to President Bush was mine and I showed him due respect. I think that lying to the American public was an impeachable offense and that the man should stand trial for making us a nation of torturers (which I believe to be immoral and I know to be ineffective), but he was made POTUS by the SCOTUS acting within their authority (if, in my opinion making one of the all-time worst decisions ever****) so he deserves to be called president although the job he did through, in my opinion, his inattention and incompetence deserves nothing but contempt. As for President Obama--first off, he went through the Constitutionally specified process so he deserves to be called by his title until removed by one of the Constitutional mechanisms. When someone makes allegations in this country there is no presumption of guilt, is there? Second, most people on the right (and I'm not accusing you--just making an observation about people in general) dislike President Obama for reasons that I can only describe as propaganda--he's liberal*, he's socialist, he's communist, he's raised taxes**, etc. If you think that we should pay private companies more money so we can receive worse health care, that's fine (not smart in my book, but you are entitled to your opinion), but complaining about "death panels" and socialized medicine while warning people to keep their hands of your Medicare (and Social Security) is hypocritical. It's always fair to ask if we treated President Bush with the same standard and likewise our question of why birthers wish to hold President Obama to higher standards than any of his predecessors is likewise legitimate, but this isn't a group of whackjob moonbats, it's a group of well educated people who tend towards the left side of the spectrum--I wouldn't assume that the people here are hypocrites without having some evidence first...





* his policies are actually to the right of Nixon's***--hardly what I would call liberal





** He's presided over the lowest tax rate of any modern president





*** I don't think that Tricky Dick need be shown the respect of the office he disgraced...





**** In no particular order Dred Scott v. Sanford, Brown v. Board of Education,Bush v. Gore,Citizens United are the bottom four SCOTUS decisions in my opinion--and I vote for Justice Thomas as worst justice ever.
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
---Sun Tzu (quoting Thomas Jefferson)
nam-myoho-renge-kyo---Thomas Jefferson (quoting Slartibartfast)

User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 44878
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Over the drawbridge

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#178

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:58 am

I don't think you mean Brown v. Board of Education, Slarti, but the decision Brown reversed, Plessy v. Ferguson. That was the case establishing the so-called "separate but equal" doctrine, i.e., the case that judicially sanctified Jim Crow.

User avatar
Slartibartfast
Posts: 7047
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:52 pm

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#179

Post by Slartibartfast » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:06 am

I don't think you mean Brown v. Board of Education, Slarti, but the decision Brown reversed, Plessy v. Ferguson. That was the case establishing the so-called "separate but equal" doctrine, i.e., the case that judicially sanctified Jim Crow.Oops. :oops:





My bad.
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
---Sun Tzu (quoting Thomas Jefferson)
nam-myoho-renge-kyo---Thomas Jefferson (quoting Slartibartfast)

User avatar
Whatever4
Posts: 12186
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:36 am
Location: Mainely in the plain
Occupation: Visiting doctors.

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#180

Post by Whatever4 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:49 am

I don't think you mean Brown v. Board of Education, Slarti, but the decision Brown reversed, Plessy v. Ferguson. That was the case establishing the so-called "separate but equal" doctrine, i.e., the case that judicially sanctified Jim Crow.Oops. :oops:





My bad.*Whew* I was about to flip out.
"[Moderate] doesn't mean you don't have views. It just means your views aren't predictable ideologically one way or the other, and you're trying to follow the facts where they lead and reach your own conclusions."
-- Sen. King (I-ME)

User avatar
neonzx
Posts: 6220
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:27 am

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#181

Post by neonzx » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:06 am

Had you criticized such attacks against others in the past?Yes. Why do you ask? Have you? If not, then what business is it of yours?





Would you defend me? It doesn't look like it from here. You began your post with a sarcastic, "Welcome to our world," then continued by ask questions that sound as if I'm on trial.


Welcome to our world, John. Many of us have ended up seated in Sterngard's interrogation er, cross-examination chair. It's what happens when one has a discussion with a trial attorney. :-*
To which Trump replied, Fuck the law. I don't give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money.

User avatar
Reality Check
Posts: 15756
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:09 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#182

Post by Reality Check » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:33 am

Off Topic
I can still remember where I was when the stay in the recount was announced on the afternoon of December 9, 2000. I found the stay in the count more sinister than the final decision. The Court somehow decided that determining the will of the voters in Florida would cause irreparable harm to the plaintiff George W. Bush.
Back on topic: I hope John decides to continue to contribute to The Fogbow.
"“If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention.”

Heather Heyer, November 2016

User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 44878
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Over the drawbridge

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#183

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:53 am

Had you criticized such attacks against others in the past?Yes. Why do you ask? Have you? If not, then what business is it of yours?





Would you defend me? It doesn't look like it from here. You began your post with a sarcastic, "Welcome to our world," then continued by ask questions that sound as if I'm on trial.


Welcome to our world, John. Many of us have ended up seated in Sterngard's interrogation er, cross-examination chair. It's what happens when one has a discussion with a trial attorney. :-*I believe that was June Bug's question. It's at page 3 of this thread. (Page 3 as my computer organizes this website.)

User avatar
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
Posts: 5267
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:28 pm
Location: East Coast
Contact:

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#184

Post by Dr. Kenneth Noisewater » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:24 am

JohnI think where you lost some folks is when you said you refused to to refer to President Obama as the President until you undertook your own investigation of the Birther claims. That admission reveals a disrespect for the Constitution that many find objectionable. If you cannot understand that I overestimated you.As far as not refering to President Obama as "President Obama" until I believed he was legitimately President, I don't know why that would upset you. I see no disrespect of the Constitution there. If you sincerely suspect that the person in the White House is not legally there, then why would you refer to him with the title of "President?"I honestly also think that was partly a response to what I had seen on the part of liberals when George W Bush was President. It didn't seem to matter how many times the votes were counted, many refused to accept or acknowledge him as President. Even when they did, he was widely portrayed as being an idiot, a chimpanzee, and so forth. He was accused of being in on 9/11. The difference that I see is that in Bush's case there was a lot of negativity that came also from the mainstream media. So I think to some degree it was also a response to that. I would hardly call the 2000 elections comparable since the vote counting was stopped and there was a direct conflict of interest with Kathryn Harris also being his chair from election in Florida and being the person that certified the vote. Also he didnt win everytime they counted the votes. A full recount showed gore winning. Now three years into it people accepted bush as the president. This is totally different from Obama where the election wasn't even close, the election was certified, there were no objections and for the hell of it he showed his birth certificate before the election. I don't get how you could compare the two. There was no legitimate belief that Obama wasn't the legal president. Now back to the actions you claim "others" see as suspicious from Obama could you elaborate?

User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 44878
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Over the drawbridge

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#185

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:46 am

I was very unhappy about the 2000 election results, but I accepted them, and the fact that someone who I thought was morally and intellectually incapable of being President was, in fact, President.





Republicans and those on the right for the most part don't seem capable of accepting much less equivocal results leading to President Obama's overwhelming victory. And I, for one, think it relates to melanin.





I also find it amusing that anyone who considers himself a serious person could believe President Obama was in some way unqualified to be POTUS, or that he was born outside of the United States. People holding such beliefs must have very short memories (and have very strong wish fulfillment fantasies). President Obama went through two stiff political challenges, where everything else was thrown at him. How these people think Hillary Clinton's or John McCain's campaigns would not have used ineligibility is the height of hubris. Only these people could see it, not the experienced professional pols who were actually running campaigns against Senator Obama and had unlimited money for opposition research. Yeah, right.

User avatar
Reality Check
Posts: 15756
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:09 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#186

Post by Reality Check » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:06 pm

RC, I'm surprised at you. Yes, I regret overreacting a bit and I apologize for that. It was Saturday night and the wine was good you know (well maybe you don't). :-? This is the second time in a few weeks I have seen a conservative register here then post "I am taking my ball and going home." I think I was doing a bit of stereotyping. I really do hope you continue to read and post at the Fogbow.
"“If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention.”

Heather Heyer, November 2016

A Legal Lohengrin
Posts: 10415
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#187

Post by A Legal Lohengrin » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:22 pm

Had you criticized such attacks against others in the past?Yes. Why do you ask? Have you? If not, then what business is it of yours?





Would you defend me? It doesn't look like it from here. You began your post with a sarcastic, "Welcome to our world," then continued by ask questions that sound as if I'm on trial.


Welcome to our world, John. Many of us have ended up seated in Sterngard's interrogation er, cross-examination chair. It's what happens when one has a discussion with a trial attorney. :-*I'll confirm that Stern does this to literally everyone and this is his specialty on Reality Check. He does this to our own people who attend court hearings and report on them. The purpose is to get information out. While it can be a bit intimidating, it's very effective.

User avatar
Whatever4
Posts: 12186
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:36 am
Location: Mainely in the plain
Occupation: Visiting doctors.

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#188

Post by Whatever4 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:41 pm

I'll confirm that Stern does this to literally everyone and this is his specialty on Reality Check. He does this to our own people who attend court hearings and report on them. The purpose is to get information out. While it can be a bit intimidating, it's very effective.I heartily agree. I asked to be grilled, in fact.





One of the problems in coming into a new community is that newbies don't know the quirks of long-time members. Don't take the "abuse" personally. Not everyone is a flaming commie liberal (although there are more here than I encounter in real life -- and I live across the river from the People's Republic of Cambridge). It helps to ignore those you consider way over the top. (There's an "ignore" function in the User Control Panel, makes it so you don't see their posts.)





Hang out a bit John, you'll come to enjoy it. :hug:




Edit: Although I am a bit worried that teh Librul is starting to rub off on me. :-?
"[Moderate] doesn't mean you don't have views. It just means your views aren't predictable ideologically one way or the other, and you're trying to follow the facts where they lead and reach your own conclusions."
-- Sen. King (I-ME)

User avatar
Plutodog
Posts: 11952
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:11 pm

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#189

Post by Plutodog » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:09 pm

I, for one, don't think the voting was completed when the SCOTUS stopped the re-counting. It was a hard-ball court fight and the Repub's spared no tactics. But when he was elected, he was inaugurated, he was President Bush. I don't think he's all that smart, but that kind of doesn't matter. A lot of the overboard stuff was from the far-far left, not just the far left or left. But under the Constitution, once we went through all the stuff and the inauguration, the person becomes and owns the title of POTUS, whether a liked one or not, IMO. Until/unless he/she's impeached, that remains the case.I wanted to add to this. While I was more circumspect than Slart, Stern, Kimba, Zorbas and Ross, I fully associate with what they had to say. Going off-topic enough to deserve another thread, I think, I hope you'll follow this link, John and others and chime in: http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 30#p313187
The only good Bundy is an Al Bundy.

User avatar
Kriselda Gray
Posts: 8645
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 am
Location: FEMA Camp 2112 - a joint project of the U.S. and Canada
Contact:

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#190

Post by Kriselda Gray » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:51 pm

It didn't seem to matter how many times the votes were countedIt was only 11 years ago, almost to the day, and you've forgotten the US Supreme Court stopped the recounting?* How convenient. I haven't forgotten. I got over it, but I'll never forget the bitterness I felt. The main thing I remember was all the talk about SCOTUS justifying their decision to stop the ballot counting because if the recount showed that Gore had won, then it might case questions of legitimacy on Bush's presidency, as if Bush was going to be president whether he actually won the election or not. That aside, though, like you, I never refused to use the title "President" even when I was writing stuff excoriating him for the idiotic nithing he is.
Edit: I didn't see plutodog's redirect before posting this, so if whomever handles the moving around here can haul it on over to the new place, I'd be much obliged!
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand... - "Witch Hunt" by Rush

SCMP = SovCits/Militias/Patriots.

Thor promised to slay the Ice Giants
God promised to quell all evil
-----
I'm not seeing any Ice Giants...

User avatar
Kriselda Gray
Posts: 8645
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 am
Location: FEMA Camp 2112 - a joint project of the U.S. and Canada
Contact:

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#191

Post by Kriselda Gray » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:58 pm

Edit: Although I am a bit worried that teh Librul is starting to rub off on me. :-?
I should certainly hope so! :D :hug:
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand... - "Witch Hunt" by Rush

SCMP = SovCits/Militias/Patriots.

Thor promised to slay the Ice Giants
God promised to quell all evil
-----
I'm not seeing any Ice Giants...

User avatar
Kriselda Gray
Posts: 8645
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 am
Location: FEMA Camp 2112 - a joint project of the U.S. and Canada
Contact:

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#192

Post by Kriselda Gray » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:05 pm

Since we're walking down memory lane*:Well done, Katherine. The Bushes owe you, doll.*By the way, what is it with Republican women (at least the evil ones who want to screw around with Presidential elections, anyway) needing an entire display counter's worth of makeup on their faces? It doesn't make 'em look anymore trustworthy or likeable (nor does it make them more attractive from what I hear guys say)
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand... - "Witch Hunt" by Rush

SCMP = SovCits/Militias/Patriots.

Thor promised to slay the Ice Giants
God promised to quell all evil
-----
I'm not seeing any Ice Giants...

User avatar
Plutodog
Posts: 11952
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:11 pm

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#193

Post by Plutodog » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:07 pm

Off Topic
Wow, we've really gone OT. Apologize for my part in it. :-?
The only good Bundy is an Al Bundy.

User avatar
Whatever4
Posts: 12186
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:36 am
Location: Mainely in the plain
Occupation: Visiting doctors.

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#194

Post by Whatever4 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:15 pm

Edit: Although I am a bit worried that teh Librul is starting to rub off on me. :-?
I should certainly hope so! :D :hug:I used to be a RINO, now I'm a Hell-if-INO. And a Huntsman fan.
"[Moderate] doesn't mean you don't have views. It just means your views aren't predictable ideologically one way or the other, and you're trying to follow the facts where they lead and reach your own conclusions."
-- Sen. King (I-ME)

User avatar
Plutodog
Posts: 11952
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:11 pm

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#195

Post by Plutodog » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:20 pm

Off Topic
I'm a Hell-if-INO. And a Huntsman fan.Me too, from the other side and on Huntsman a little. I sure hope the R's don't wake up to him. He makes too much sense. :-#
The only good Bundy is an Al Bundy.

MaineSkeptic
Posts: 5295
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:48 pm

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#196

Post by MaineSkeptic » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:52 pm

...on Huntsman a little. I sure hope the R's don't wake up to him. He makes too much sense. :-#[/offtopic]Way too much. He thinks we should listen to scientists regarding scientific matters.

User avatar
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
Posts: 5267
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:28 pm
Location: East Coast
Contact:

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#197

Post by Dr. Kenneth Noisewater » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:30 pm

Since we're walking down memory lane*:Well done, Katherine. The Bushes owe you, doll.*By the way, what is it with Republican women (at least the evil ones who want to screw around with Presidential elections, anyway) needing an entire display counter's worth of makeup on their faces? It doesn't make 'em look anymore trustworthy or likeable (nor does it make them more attractive from what I hear guys say)I think its like star wars the more you're on the dark side the more haggard and screwed up your looks become

BFB
Posts: 5283
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:48 pm

New book: "Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a FRAUD?"

#198

Post by BFB » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:50 pm

[/break1]org/blog/201201150005]Media Matters gives a linky to Woodman's book in an article about porn 'stache saying looking into the nativity of any other candidate is a distraction.

Post Reply

Return to “"Factual" Claims by Birthers”