Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#126

Post by woodworker » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:03 pm

LeGargantua wrote:
Mikedunford wrote:
LeGargantua wrote:Only solution to avoid this: let the judge stay in prison until the defendant is caught again ....
I don't know where you got your views on what justice should be, but I'm glad I don't live there.
Or may be that judge should pay for the search of the fugitive. He broke it - he owns it. But I know of course - immunity even for the most crazy things.

Btw. - it is extremely easy to tickle you, Mike.
If it is easy to tickle Mike, it is extremely easy to tickle me. I know what we should do, we should follow your thinking as it logically progresses: patient dies because surgery or treatment is not successful, kill the doctor; lose a lawsuit or criminal case, make your lawyer pay, in fact, why not just go back to the days of witches and wizards and pagan worship and blame everything bad on those we don't like, call them witches and burn them at the stake. See, I tickle easily too.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#128

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:25 pm

Such is theEuropean way.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#129

Post by Estiveo » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:48 pm

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#130

Post by Piffle » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:25 pm

Ya think Lyle Jeffs ain't slippery and slick? It seems he lubed himself up with olive oil to slipped out of his GPS ankle bracelet and the FBI hasn't seen him since.
WaPo wrote:The leader of a polygamous Utah sect came up with a simple but slippery way to escape law enforcement late last month: olive oil.

Lyle Jeffs, the leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (also known as FLDS) was initially being held in jail after federal authorities arrested him and 10 other church leaders over a food-stamp-fraud case earlier this year.

Despite pleas from federal prosecutors and estranged family members who warned that Jeffs would escape, U.S. District Court Judge Ted Stewart ultimately decided to release him in early June because his trial was delayed. Stewart would come to regret his decision less than two weeks later when Jeffs escaped.
Link to today's Washington Post

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#131

Post by Maclilly » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:39 pm

I had just completed reading Carol Jessop's letter a few days before he was released and escaped. I am still so angry that judge let this man out of jail. It was a given he would run. I am actually un-characteristically angry about this. I have no connection to these Mormons or other religious cults but do read a lot of biographies and was so appalled by Carol's book. It's sickening that these groups continue to get away with the abuse and everyone is afraid to touch them because of "religious liberty" bullshit. they are breaking the law. I am just so grateful my parents did not raise us within any form of religion. My husband was raised in the 70s when his parents were into the whole born again, spank your kids every night crap. My husband's brother was 13 when he grabbed his father's arm as it was about to swing and told him if he tried to hit any of them he'd be getting a swat himself. They dropped that idea real quick and cooled out after that. They are good people but were being led by crazy zealots. We let our girls find their own faith and both girls are very spiritual and philosophical. They just have no time or interest in any religion either.

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#132

Post by Fortinbras » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:18 pm

I don't know if this point has been made (I am SURE a multitude will correct me) but - additional to the abuse of little girls in their communities that amounts to statutory (and even forcible) rape - there is the abuse and criminal abandonment of boys by these polygamous communities.

Simply put, within their compounds as everywhere else on earth, births tend to be 50-50 boys & girls, but when girls are clustered 5 or even 10 or more to a privileged husband, that means there will be no girls left for a great many young men. So the polygamists continuously toss out their "excess" boys, usually the ones not in favored families, usually in their very early teens. These abandonments are almost certainly criminal. The boys are sent away, sometimes given a bus ticket, sometimes actually driven in a vehicle, to some distant city and left there. They have, of course, no school records, no birth certificates or other official papers, and certainly no money. They are too young for jobs, and in any case probably only marginally literate. They wind up in the most dreadful circumstances and I would not be surprised if a substantial number of inmates in the prisons and juvenile facilities in the southwestern states were abandoned FLDS boys. I would suppose that, in the city, these boys do not find FLDS support but maybe regular Mormon assistance. I am sort of surprised that, among all the stories of FLDS violence, there seems to be no report of one of these abandoned boys growing up and coming back with a gun for revenge.

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#133

Post by SueDB » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:42 pm

Fortinbras wrote:I don't know if this point has been made (I am SURE a multitude will correct me) but - additional to the abuse of little girls in their communities that amounts to statutory (and even forcible) rape - there is the abuse and criminal abandonment of boys by these polygamous communities.

Simply put, within their compounds as everywhere else on earth, births tend to be 50-50 boys & girls, but when girls are clustered 5 or even 10 or more to a privileged husband, that means there will be no girls left for a great many young men. So the polygamists continuously toss out their "excess" boys, usually the ones not in favored families, usually in their very early teens. These abandonments are almost certainly criminal. The boys are sent away, sometimes given a bus ticket, sometimes actually driven in a vehicle, to some distant city and left there. They have, of course, no school records, no birth certificates or other official papers, and certainly no money. They are too young for jobs, and in any case probably only marginally literate. They wind up in the most dreadful circumstances and I would not be surprised if a substantial number of inmates in the prisons and juvenile facilities in the southwestern states were abandoned FLDS boys. I would suppose that, in the city, these boys do not find FLDS support but maybe regular Mormon assistance. I am sort of surprised that, among all the stories of FLDS violence, there seems to be no report of one of these abandoned boys growing up and coming back with a gun for revenge.
The nasty old men monopolize the good looking girls to the exclusion of the young males. They are left out.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#134

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:01 am

SueDB wrote:
Fortinbras wrote:I don't know if this point has been made (I am SURE a multitude will correct me) but - additional to the abuse of little girls in their communities that amounts to statutory (and even forcible) rape - there is the abuse and criminal abandonment of boys by these polygamous communities.
:snippity: .
The nasty old men monopolize the good looking girls to the exclusion of the young males. They are left out.
From what I've seen, their focus seems to be less on "good-looking" and more on "young." Which is just as nauseating as it sounds.

Somebody did an exposé on the discarded boys of the FLDS... 60 Minutes maybe?

Lunatics.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#135

Post by SueDB » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:48 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
SueDB wrote:
Fortinbras wrote:I don't know if this point has been made (I am SURE a multitude will correct me) but - additional to the abuse of little girls in their communities that amounts to statutory (and even forcible) rape - there is the abuse and criminal abandonment of boys by these polygamous communities.
:snippity: .
The nasty old men monopolize the good looking girls to the exclusion of the young males. They are left out.
From what I've seen, their focus seems to be less on "good-looking" and more on "young." Which is just as nauseating as it sounds.

Somebody did an exposé on the discarded boys of the FLDS... 60 Minutes maybe?

Lunatics.
It's like the big chicken producers grinding up the live male chicks that are of no apparent use to them.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#136

Post by RVInit » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:49 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
SueDB wrote:
Fortinbras wrote:I don't know if this point has been made (I am SURE a multitude will correct me) but - additional to the abuse of little girls in their communities that amounts to statutory (and even forcible) rape - there is the abuse and criminal abandonment of boys by these polygamous communities.
:snippity: .
The nasty old men monopolize the good looking girls to the exclusion of the young males. They are left out.
From what I've seen, their focus seems to be less on "good-looking" and more on "young." Which is just as nauseating as it sounds.

Somebody did an exposé on the discarded boys of the FLDS... 60 Minutes maybe?

Lunatics.
My computer is on the fritz, I'm not good on my phone. I started to enter this once, but I think I screwed up and abandoned. There is a pretty good 1 hour 25 mins documentary on Amazon Prime - it's called Sons of Perdition. I watched it a couple of weeks ago, it's very good.

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#137

Post by mmmirele » Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:36 pm

The feds have filed a couple of documents against various FLDS arguments that they (FLDS) have the religious right to give up their SNAP benefits to the church storehouse.

Here's the feds' reply to the FLDS motion in in limine (6 pages):



And here's a much longer response to a motion to dismiss (19 pages argument, 75 pages exhibits):



The exhibits include sworn affidavits from people in the "United Order" who were told to turn over their SNAP benefits and then they'd be fed out of the storehouse. Uhm, not so much. Plus a bunch of internal emails about what was available in the storehouse (a lot of the time, not much). Remember, part of the scam was that the SNAP benefits were routed through a couple of stores in the area, but were ultimately converted into cash. Some of the monies went to make payments on a truck owned by one of the FLDS leaders.

Speaking of FLDS leaders, a little over a week ago, a couple of the indicted, Seth Jeffs (who is apparently the new Short Creek "bishop") and John Wayman, were picked up for violating the terms of their release. They are currently being held. A hearing was supposed to have been held on Tuesday, August 9, but has been put off until Monday, August 22. Wayman was caught with $29K in cash and Seth with $9K on their persons when they were arrested (see second article).

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... tml?pg=all

And lastly, apparently, allegedly, Warren sent the fugitive Lyle Jeffs off on a "repentance mission," whatever the hell that is. And in the meantime, Warren's reorganizing the FLDS *again*. In the last decade and a half, he's done this five or six times.

http://fox13now.com/2016/08/08/warren-j ... eds-claim/

I question how much of a repentance mission Lyle is on, given that he's issuing this type of missive from wherever the hell he's hiding out. That's because, in addition to the butt-kissing, he's interviewing people as to whether they can be rebaptized AGAIN and join the new, super ooper duper United Order, more shiny and new and acceptable to the Lord than the last one (and still just as unable to pray Warren out of his prison near Palestine, Texas).
lylejeffs.jpg
That is the first of apparently three pages that private investigator Sam Brower got his hands on recently and posted to his Facebook. These people are "recommended;" they are listed by name, age, and who their male owner is. (It's not always their husband or father, given how families have been assigned and reassigned within the FLDS like so much cattle). There are two further pages to the document, but I'm not posting them here because they're just lists of names and wouldn't be of much use. The other things to note are 1) the date (which is after Lyle skipped his release) and 2) he's somewhere where he has a computer and 3) he's able to send mail to Warren in prison.

Seriously, that is the one thing which drives me nuts about this whole business. I wish there was a way to shut down the letter pipeline between Warren and his people. I know this runs into a lot of prison rules and the First Amendment, but I am absolutely convinced that they're doing shenanigans even though Warren's been in custody for 10 years now. The only way to break up this nest of law-breaking jackasses leading others off the cliff is to silence the voice of profit Warren. I just don't know how it can be done and respect the rights of other prisoners who are not leading thousands of people in criminality.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#138

Post by rpenner » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:30 pm

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... tml?pg=all
U.S. District Judge Ted Stewart ordered Lyle Jeffs to adhere to strict conditions upon his release, including that he live in Salt Lake County, wear a GPS monitor and have no contact with any witnesses or the 10 co-defendants in the case or with Warren Jeffs.

Earlier this month, Stewart sent two other defendants in the case — Seth Steed Jeffs and John Clifton Wayman — back to jail after he found they had violated the terms of their release by meeting together under instructions from Warren Jeffs. The meeting was held to vet disassociated members for rebaptism into the church.

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#139

Post by Fortinbras » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:40 pm

Knowing that there is a $50G incentive put out by the FBI to turn him in, Lyle Jeffs may likely to tempted to kill people he thinks are not solid.

A willingness to kill has been a signature crime of previous Fundie Mormons such as LeBaron.

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#140

Post by TollandRCR » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:23 pm

There is an interesting critique of Under the Banner of Heaven at Religion & Politics Fit for Polite Company in Mormonism and the Problem of Jon Krakauer by Max Perry Mueller.
The story of the Lafferty brothers’ gruesome murders of their sister-in-law and infant niece in 1984 is the third and most problematic part of Krakauer’s narrative. He uses the Lafferty brothers to tie the present-day LDS Church to Mormon fundamentalism by demonstrating that, at its core, the LDS Church has not abandoned its violent polygamous past. After all, the Lafferty brothers were not raised as Mormon fundamentalists, but were reared in what Krakauer describes as a model LDS family. They were known as “hundred-and-ten percenters” in their Provo, Utah community, fully dedicated to living saintly lives—lives that today’s LDS Church maintains would be theologically and culturally incompatible with Mormon fundamentalism. And yet according to Krakauer, it was exactly this dedication to their faith taken to its logical conclusion that drew Ron and Dan Lafferty to begin studying Mormon origins, especially Joseph Smith’s revelations on plural marriage. After meeting a Canadian Fundamentalist prophet, Ron and Dan, along their other brothers, quickly worked to establish their own fundamentalist community based upon the principles of plural marriage and strict patriarchal control. While most of the brothers’ wives went reluctantly along with their husbands’ drastic changes, Brenda Lafferty, the wife of the youngest Lafferty brother, Allen, refused and urged her sister-in-laws to do so as well.* When Ron’s wife Dianna divorced him, Ron received a revelation from God to kill Brenda and her infant daughter, Erica. Ron and Dan carried out the revelation and after living on the run for a time, the two brothers were apprehended, tried, and convicted of the murders.
...
Krakauer’s view on Mormonism in particular and religion in general is a problem. But it’s a problem not only for scholars of religion but also religious people, whose faith Krakauer reduces to a tool of coercion. And as such scholars of religion should pay attention to how, beyond just the FLDS and Warren Jeffs, the lives of the religious people whose sins and traumas Krakauer profiled with such pathos have unfolded since the publication of his book.

The case of Elizabeth Smart might be a good place to start. In Under the Banner of Heaven, Krakauer chronicles the then-14-year-old’s abduction from her Salt Lake City home in 2002 at the hands of another self-proclaimed polygamist Mormon prophet and his wife. Krakauer argues that it was Smart’s devotion to her LDS faith that made her susceptible to the manipulation of her kidnapper, who allegedly quoted revelations from Joseph Smith while he raped her almost nightly during her nine-month captivity. In recent years, Smart, who has become an advocate for victims of sex crimes and human trafficking, has herself spoken out against how traditional Mormon sexual purity lessons kept her from simply running away from her captures while they were walking the streets of Salt Lake City, just miles from her home.

Yet, as JB Haws pointed out to me, Elizabeth Smart, who recently gave birth to her first child with her husband whom she met on her Mormon mission in France, has also spoken about how her faith sustained her during and after her captivity. “I wonder if Elizabeth Smart’s resilience, activism and strength and religious commitment will give readers [of Under the Banner of Heaven] pause—a sort of a decade-later postscript,” Haws suggested. “Will it make readers ask, ‘What is it about Mormonism that produces more Elizabeth Smarts than Laffertys?’”
Is that true: "Mormonism produces more Elizabeth Smarts than Laffertys"? And if it is true, why does the question even arise? Why are there Laffertys at all?
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#141

Post by woodworker » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:28 pm

mmmirele wrote:The feds have filed a couple of documents against various FLDS arguments that they (FLDS) have the religious right to give up their SNAP benefits to the church storehouse. :snippity:

lylejeffs.jpg
:snippity:

Seriously, that is the one thing which drives me nuts about this whole business. I wish there was a way to shut down the letter pipeline between Warren and his people. I know this runs into a lot of prison rules and the First Amendment, but I am absolutely convinced that they're doing shenanigans even though Warren's been in custody for 10 years now. The only way to break up this nest of law-breaking jackasses leading others off the cliff is to silence the voice of profit Warren. I just don't know how it can be done and respect the rights of other prisoners who are not leading thousands of people in criminality.
Preston Barlow "owns" four girls under 16. These people make me sick. IMHO, there is no circle of hell deep enough for them and, while I generally agree with the idea that we do not support physical abuse in prison, I won't lose any sleep or cry any tears if these assholes get a new one in prison. They are scum.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#142

Post by Foggy » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:33 pm

I thought only Mormon men did missions. Do ladies also do them? :confused:
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#143

Post by Azastan » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:21 pm

Foggy wrote:I thought only Mormon men did missions. Do ladies also do them? :confused:
Yes, they do. Not nearly as often, though, and they serve only 18 months, instead of two years.

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#144

Post by Pompeed » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:50 pm

Azastan wrote:
Foggy wrote:I thought only Mormon men did missions. Do ladies also do them? :confused:
Yes, they do. Not nearly as often, though, and they serve only 18 months, instead of two years.

They live in my building in pairs. Shifted every six weeks. A pair is here for that duration and then leave. A few days later, another pair comes to stay for the same duration.

Always in skirts.

Can't operate those things called automobiles. Although they have them. The last two sets have taken out the curbs, and the parking signs. Seem to have trouble with either D or R or the brakes or the accelerator pedals.

Every time the "switch" is made, my door bell rings. I don't answer. I find cakes or muffins or something else from their kitchen left on the shelf next to my door. Complete with some bible passage or other and some pamphlet.

Drives me nuts.

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#145

Post by Pompeed » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:53 pm

Fortinbras wrote:Knowing that there is a $50G incentive put out by the FBI to turn him in, Lyle Jeffs may likely to tempted to kill people he thinks are not solid.

A willingness to kill has been a signature crime of previous Fundie Mormons such as LeBaron.

Unless the Feds took his passport when he was given conditional release, he was out of the US within hours after he slipped the bracelet.

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#146

Post by HighPlainsDrifter » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:39 pm

Judge Stewart obviously acted in good Mormon faith, so who wants to blame him ?

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#147

Post by Flatpointhigh » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:23 pm

Pompeed wrote:
Fortinbras wrote:Knowing that there is a $50G incentive put out by the FBI to turn him in, Lyle Jeffs may likely to tempted to kill people he thinks are not solid.

A willingness to kill has been a signature crime of previous Fundie Mormons such as LeBaron.

Unless the Feds took his passport when he was given conditional release, he was out of the US within hours after he slipped the bracelet.
Jeffs was ordered to surrender his passport to the Feds as a condition of his "house arrest".

Too also, wonder what Stewart has to say about his flight.

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#148

Post by SueDB » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:34 pm

Flatpointhigh wrote:
Pompeed wrote:
Fortinbras wrote:Knowing that there is a $50G incentive put out by the FBI to turn him in, Lyle Jeffs may likely to tempted to kill people he thinks are not solid.

A willingness to kill has been a signature crime of previous Fundie Mormons such as LeBaron.

Unless the Feds took his passport when he was given conditional release, he was out of the US within hours after he slipped the bracelet.
Jeffs was ordered to surrender his passport to the Feds as a condition of his "house arrest".

Too also, wonder what Stewart has to say about his flight.
They have compounds in Canada and Mexico. It's not a big deal to get across either border. It will probably take him getting lonesome or making a phone call etc sometime in the next 10 years to get caught/give away hiding place. Heck lots of times it is just a traffic stop/ran red light/simple stuff.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#149

Post by jonbeck » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:33 pm

It's not a big deal to get across either border.
They have facial recognition at the crossings, amazing how many felons they catch at the border crossing

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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#150

Post by SueDB » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:45 pm

jonbeck wrote:
It's not a big deal to get across either border.
They have facial recognition at the crossings, amazing how many felons they catch at the border crossing
He's outbound. I've never had an issue going into Canada or Mexico. Coming back however is another story.
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