Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1276

Post by Suranis »

From my completly ignorant IANAL position, I'm wondering if the Dimwit Duo are working on getting a plea down from full charges, what do they have to bring to the table apart from the usual lessening of court costs. Could Wohl reveal his little black book of male clients from his Prostitution biz? Another angle could be revealing who have been paying them to set up their smears, though that's unlikely as, frankly, their smears have been so catastrophically lame that anyone playing black ops with them would have run a mile after the press conference with Burkman's ziper open.

Its possible that Wohl is trying to play that angle as he is as big a Narcissist as Trump is, and might genuinely be trying to play the Prosecution with his superior brain, but frankly, I don't think he has many cards to play. Even turning evidence on Burkman wouldn't sway the Prosecution as they have everything they need on Burkman anyway. Plus, his credibility would be shot as who the fuck would believe the little shit?

Ok just random thoughts on what cards the defendants have to play and what they could bring to the table for a deal.
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1277

Post by bob »

fierceredpanda wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:18 pmExcept that the decision to admit the evidence does not get any deference at the appellate level, because the standard of review for those sorts of legal rulings is de novo.
That is the articulated standard, yes. :wink:
Suranis wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:35 pmFrom my completly ignorant IANAL position, I'm wondering if the Dimwit Duo are working on getting a plea down from full charges, what do they have to bring to the table apart from the usual lessening of court costs. Could Wohl reveal his little black book of male clients from his Prostitution biz?
These are state charges, so I'm not sure what they could offer up to Michigan prosecutors that would be of interest.

And if the feds call and ask the State of Lock Her Up! Michigan to cut them a sweetheart deal, that request shirley will get all consideration it is due.
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1278

Post by Maybenaut »

fierceredpanda wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:18 pm All so that it would be in the transcript if there were an appeal. Happily, the jury acquitted my client.)
Congratulations on the acquittal.

And good for you for protecting the record. I wish more counsel at the trial level would do that.
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1279

Post by fierceredpanda »

Maybenaut wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:42 pm
fierceredpanda wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:18 pm All so that it would be in the transcript if there were an appeal. Happily, the jury acquitted my client.)
Congratulations on the acquittal.

And good for you for protecting the record. I wish more counsel at the trial level would do that.
Thanks!

An obsession with protecting the record comes naturally when you're one of three solo attorneys in a building, and one of the other two primarily focuses on appellate criminal defense. ;)
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1280

Post by Gregg »

Okay, Root Beer is calling a press conference for Saturday, at the Dunkin Donuts in Maineville (she thinks if she brings enough people they'll let her back in).

She intends to show evidence that will blow the lid off this election, including PROOF that Jacob Wohl is a male gay escort in DC and his biggesat client is Senator Lindsey Graham. Also, we have too good on Jack Burhman, also known as the Cocaine King of K Street, and proof of his frequent deliveries to DJTJ.

Yep, all the donuts belong to us.

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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1281

Post by bob »

Law & Crime: Jacob Wohl, While Representing Himself in Civil Court, Likely Says Incriminating Things as Criminal Case Looms:
Right-wing activists, hoaxers and alleged fraudsters Jack Burkman and Jacob Wohl gave testimony in a civil case on Monday morning. And some of what was said might have less than positive implications for their upcoming criminal trial in Michigan.

The decidedly bumbling duo was sued in New York federal court in late October by the National Coalition on Black Civic Participation (NCBCP), a self-described and decades-old “nonpartisan civil rights and racial justice organization,” for allegedly violating the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871.

* * *

During Monday’s hearing, Wohl served as his own attorney and openly answered questions that he was asked, according to journalist Zachary Petrizzo, who listened in on the proceedings.



Burkman and Wohl reportedly struggled over “basic” factual issues–especially when asked to account for their documented and voluminous history of hoaxes and smears. The duo was also forced by the judge to account for whether or not they targeted specific areas with their robocalls.

“The anti-vaccine movement is a diverse movement,” Wohl told the judge at one point. This comment was apparently uttered in service of an effort to defend the claim in one of his robocalls that voters’ private information might be used to facilitate forced vaccination—a possibly racist trope in context of the allegation that Burkman and Wohl were targeting Black voters for suppression in particular.

* * *

Aside from the answers given by the reportedly befuddled defendants, lawyers were quick to criticize the strategy of even appearing for the civil hearing in the first place–much less answering questions without an actual attorney present.

“Wohl is not only defending himself, but he is answering questions in a civil case even though he has been charged in a criminal case,” noted former federal prosecutor and CNN legal analyst Renato Mariotti via Twitter. “What he says in this civil case can and will be used against him! Normally defendants request a ‘stay’ that pauses the civil case.”

Attorney Ken White was even more aghast:


NCBCP's complaint.
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1282

Post by Flatpointhigh »

could they possibly be laying groundwork for having one of the charges thrown out over 5th Amendment issues?
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1283

Post by fierceredpanda »

Flatpointhigh wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:11 pm could they possibly be laying groundwork for having one of the charges thrown out over 5th Amendment issues?
Not unless the judge is deeply stupid. Popehat is exactly right on this - it's sheer recklessness. Wohl and Burkman have resources. They could hire attorneys on the civil matter if they so chose, and they could invoke the Fifth Amendment if they so chose, or seek a stay of their testimony while the criminal cases are in the works. They're effectively waiving those options. This is every bit as bad for them as the clients I see every day who talk talk talk to the cops without a lawyer present. It doesn't work out well for those clients, and it won't work out well for these two morons either.
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1284

Post by Flatpointhigh »

fierceredpanda wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:19 pm
Flatpointhigh wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:11 pm could they possibly be laying groundwork for having one of the charges thrown out over 5th Amendment issues?
Not unless the judge is deeply stupid. Popehat is exactly right on this - it's sheer recklessness. Wohl and Burkman have resources. They could hire attorneys on the civil matter if they so chose, and they could invoke the Fifth Amendment if they so chose, or seek a stay of their testimony while the criminal cases are in the works. Their effectively waiving those options. This is every bit as bad for them as the clients I see every day who talk talk talk to the cops without a lawyer present. It doesn't work out well for those clients, and it won't work out well for these two morons either.
Thanks for the clarification
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1285

Post by Gregg »

fierceredpanda wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:19 pm
Flatpointhigh wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:11 pm could they possibly be laying groundwork for having one of the charges thrown out over 5th Amendment issues?
Not unless the judge is deeply stupid. Popehat is exactly right on this - it's sheer recklessness. Wohl and Burkman have resources. They could hire attorneys on the civil matter if they so chose, and they could invoke the Fifth Amendment if they so chose, or seek a stay of their testimony while the criminal cases are in the works. Their effectively waiving those options. This is every bit as bad for them as the clients I see every day who talk talk talk to the cops without a lawyer present. It doesn't work out well for those clients, and it won't work out well for these two morons either.

I think if I try I can live with that.
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1286

Post by RTH10260 »

I guess the thread title says it all "hopelessly incompetent smear merchants" :violin:
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1287

Post by Maybenaut »

Wohl’s future cell mate: What are you in for?

Wohl: Pwned the libs.
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1288

Post by pipistrelle »

RTH10260 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:24 pm I guess the thread title says it all "hopelessly incompetent smear merchants" :violin:
I think of them as impossibly arrogant.
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1289

Post by neonzx »

pipistrelle wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:15 pm
RTH10260 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:24 pm I guess the thread title says it all "hopelessly incompetent smear merchants" :violin:
I think of them as impossibly arrogant.
It's all kinda wild. Daddy is allegedly a moneyed high-powered lawyer.

He let his kid self-represent himself?
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1290

Post by Flatpointhigh »

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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1291

Post by Northland10 »

They went through all that trouble putting together fake FBI actors and a fake Twitter account when they could have waited and let real law enforcement do it for them.
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1292

Post by LtDansLegs »

Yep. Cleveland rocks.

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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1293

Post by fierceredpanda »

Good God.

At some point in these two jokers' multi-state crime spree, a court needs to say, "Nope. Not letting you out unless you post a whole lot of cash money for bond." :nope:

Wohl is now charged with felonies in three states, for heaven's sake.
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Re: Jacob Wohl

#1294

Post by neonzx »

Chilidog wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:09 am Does he deserve his own thread?
:- :daydream:
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Re: Jacob Wohl

#1295

Post by Maybenaut »

Mikedunford wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:15 am
Chilidog wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:09 am Does he deserve his own thread?
Probably. He's a prolific and persistent little shitbird.

Edit: ETA: Too, also, the probability of him stepping on his own dick in some spectacular fashion in the next several months is quite significant.
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1296

Post by Volkonski »

Adam Klasfeld
@KlasfeldReports
·
30m
Judge Marrero won't reconsider or stay his order forcing Jacob Wohl to tell recipients of his robocall that the election-related messages were false and illegal.

Doc: https://beta.documentcloud.org/document ... tay-denial
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1297

Post by Orlylicious »

Thanks for that!

Important: The *Federal* SDNY judge is requiring Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman to issue a "remedial robocall" saying the first call was wrong & suppressive. They tried to fight it & the judge shot them down. Federal trumps State restriction on more robocalls.

Jacob Remedial Robocall.JPG


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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1298

Post by Volkonski »

Adam Klasfeld
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This morning, a federal judge will hear whether Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman should be held in contempt if he finds that they blew past a deadline to tell recipients of their robocalls that the messages were false and illegal.

Adam Klasfeld
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Judge Marrero, whose recent ruling excoriated Burkman and Wohl for engaging in “electoral terror,” has joined the line.

The duo's criminal and civil lawyers are on the line.


Colin "Obscure Horror Movie Reference" Kalmbacher
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·
4m
Judge briefly recites case thus far. NCBCP brought suit alleging violations of Voting Rights Act and KKK Act. The court found in favor of the plaintiffs. The defendants were ordered to issue the aforementioned remedial calls.

Marrero: "Defendants did not comply with the order."

Judge still going through prior motions/arguments. Wohl and Burkman--by way of civil and criminal counsel civil--say they would be unfairly prejudiced in Michigan and Ohio criminal proceedings if they were forced to make calls admitting the original calls were false and illegal.

"This court in its original decision granted a TRO which [is] not appeal-able. The court did not issue a preliminary injunction. The defendants suggest the court's action was a preliminary injunction and not a TRO and [argue] that determines the extent of the defendants' appeal."

Immediately above per Marrero. He is discussing the possible procedural methods available for Wohl and Burkman here viz. their telegraphed effort to appeal before the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. The judge is, of course, highly suspicious of the defendants at this point.

Schwartz: "Our clients were in a preliminary hearing all day long yesterday...it was impossible to speak with them at all to discuss these issues."

This is his first appearance. Notes his clients previously appeared without counsel .

Schwartz complains that his clients, while they were representing themselves, told the court they were seeking civil counsel. This is something of a longshot bid for mercy because that's not really particularly relevant--they should have moved for a stay of the proceedings.

Schwartz says that complying with the court's order would be a violation of their Fifth Amendment rights because it is essentially, in his words, an allocution (an admission of guilt) that will unfairly prejudice the jurors and presentation of their criminal case.

Schwartz: "Every single word in that robocall was truthful."

Wow.

Jacob Wohl's attorney is arguing that the National Coalition on Black Civic Participation got everything in their motions incorrect.

"We will prove that every single statement in that robocall was truthful."

Schwartz directly attacking Judge Marrero now, his voice rising and rising: "You've clearly made [incorrect] judgments of fact in this case."

Turns it over to Michigan criminal counsel Grabel.
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1299

Post by Volkonski »

Colin "Obscure Horror Movie Reference" Kalmbacher
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·
1m
Grabel begins as Schwartz began--complaining about the tight timelines here--says he was in court all day and unable to deal with it.

"Nobody was trying to thumb their nose at your order."

Grabel says his major concern in complying with the court order is that the information/technology necessary to comply with the order is in the possession of a third party which has chosen to cut all ties with Burkman and Wohl.

Grabel's secondary concern--rehashing the collective defense strategy here--with the remedial call is that it will taint the potential witness or juror pool. He is also sure the prosecution will use the call during trial. Says he knows that's not what the judge is trying to do.
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Re: Jacob Wohl / Jack Burkman - hopelessly incompetent smear merchants

#1300

Post by Volkonski »

Colin "Obscure Horror Movie Reference" Kalmbacher
@colinkalmbacher
·

Marrero back now. Dismissing the constitutional complaints by noting "this is a civil case." Upbraids the defense by noting that their clients have actually admitted to everything. "So there was some evidence," for the SDNY's original order finding them in violation of the law.

Marrero also dismisses a brief complaint from Kleinman about hearsay--says it is not applicable here. Now addressing the third party (Robert Mahanian) saying there are various orders that can be issued to address that issue without prejudicing either side. Turns it over to NCBCP.

Gold: "Defendants are in possession" of the relevant data--the people contacted by the robocalls. Notes that Michigan subpoenaed Mahanian and got most of the necessary information. Says the defense can't hide behind the claim that they just don't have access to relevant data.

Marrero: "Is it correct?" He talks over the defense who tries to mangle the inquiry. Grabel answers: "We honestly don't know...that answer might be absolutely yes but honestly we don't know. We haven't reviewed all the discovery." Says they would produce it but he's buried.

Marrero asks how long to find the documents. Grabel says maybe a day. A small and tense back-and-forth with Grabel and Marrero arguing over whether or not they're in compliance with the order. Marrero says it's an easy question--hints they are obviously not in compliance.

Marrero wants to know if there are any additional issues--provided the relevant data is indeed buried in discovery--and asks the defense to ignore the Mahanian concern.

Schwartz reiterates their argument about prejudicing jurors, witnesses, the criminal proceedings, etc.
"I fail to see the logic in your argument," Marrero says--dismissing the concerns from Schwartz and Grabel that they would be tainting the jury or witness pool.

"Why would you call such a witness?" he asks--referring to a witness contacted by either robocall.
"It's not very compelling," Marrero continues, now completely rubbishing the defense's legal theories about witnesses being influenced.

"It may be your point but it's not a very persuasive point for this court."
Grabel concedes that he hasn't been working on this case very long and says his arguments might not be up to snuff. Pretty odd admission for a criminal defense attorney but okay.

Schwartz is now asking to rewrite the language of the remedial call. Marrero is open to the idea.
The defense will have to work with the plaintiffs to craft a new curative robocall. But says they must comply by 3 pm today. Schwartz says he will not confer with plaintiff's counsel. "It's your order," the defense says. Just wants to remove his clients' names from the call.

Marrero: "Does your request imply that if the court found some way to comply with your request would your clients take steps to make the curative robocalls today?"

Schwartz, flummoxed: "We're going to comply with your order....I don't think we'll get it done today..."

Wohl's attorney says it is "impossible" to comply today. Says they're looking for a new robocall vendor, etc. Reiterates request to just delete the names. Repeatedly says he and his clients are not going to ignore the court's order (which they have already done).

Gold says he's open to removing Burkman and Wohl from remedial calls but maybe if they kept the 1599 Project in the proposed call. Navarro, however, is less open to the idea--says the recipients would have one less piece of relevant information. "It's all about the intimidation."

Judge Marrero says the parties must confer and come back by 12 pm today.

Navarro: "To the extent that defense counsel needs to look through the discovery to locate the call logs, the discovery is electronic, so they should be able to locate it quickly."

Marrero thanks the participants and court is adjourned.
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