Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

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DejaMoo
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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1276

Post by DejaMoo » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:24 pm

boots wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:14 pm
I can get why you think that, but your thinking that is sort of the democrat equivalent of a republican from a heavily republican area believing that Obama was a secret Muslim. I know it may be hard to believe, but there are decent people who are Republicans and who support Trump. Mean people suck, and are the problem, regardless of their party affiliation.
Surveys have shown that the common denominator for determining support for Trump is racism. Whether they admit to it or not. There's a lot of them who indignantly deny their racism.

If they support a racist president, if his words and actions don't disgust them, they're racists, too.
I've heard this bull before.

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1277

Post by p0rtia » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:28 pm

Grumpy Old Guy wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:04 pm
p0rtia wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:22 pm
boots wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:15 pm


You go to racist bridge parties?
Of course not. I'm shocked that you would say that. I wouldn't stoop to play party bridge. I play duplicate. :geezerette:
Off Topic
My dad played at a duplicate bridge club. The local weekly reported the scores.
I haven’t the patience for cards.
Portia, I admire that you are that cerebral.
Off Topic
I'm fond of games. I don't play currently, because, time, but I do like to polish off my one claim to fame at the bridge table, which was that my partners and I (we were playing a version of the game called Team of Four) won the women's division of the National Championships in Egypt once year, placing seventh overall, and placing ahead of Omar El Sheriff's team in the process. :towel:
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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1278

Post by Reality Check » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:14 pm

boots wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:47 pm

You just tried to move the goalpost there. [No I didn't. I correctly pointed out your analogy was false.]

Groups of persons who only talk to others who are similarly extreme, sometimes believe Obama was a secret muslim. That belief is false.

Groups of persons who only talk to others who are similarly extreme (or perhaps are talking to them at the time) might say everyone who wears a MAGA hat is a racist. [I said Trump is a flaming racist. Do you disagree? I say that everyone who wears a MAGA hat therefore supports a flaming racist. I could not care less why they support him. If they support a racist they are a racist.
"“If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention.”

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1279

Post by Bill_G » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:15 pm

I don't know that I would argue that MAGA hats are the modern day equivalent of the swatika, but I also wouldn't argue that black people in the Republican party are proof it isn't racist either. We hear these ideas presented by the Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer members when they rally in Portland. They do have a slice of life in their crew with their local leadership being half white, or not white at all, as they parade around downtown with their fresh MAGA hats displayed. There are black men shoulder to shoulder with them which is a rare sight to see in Portland. So, what would cause non-white men to hangout with groups whose language is clearly jingoist phrasing from a century ago? What are these guys longing for that they can't find elsewhere?

I can't really answer except the camaraderie must fulfill some desire they haven't found elsewhere. Either the overt racism is low enough they can deal with it as they have their whole lives, or they are getting something else making it worth their time to be close to it no matter what the cost is.

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1280

Post by Dave at Sea » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:45 pm

p0rtia wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:28 pm
Off Topic
I'm fond of games. I don't play currently, because, time, but I do like to polish off my one claim to fame at the bridge table, which was that my partners and I (we were playing a version of the game called Team of Four) won the women's division of the National Championships in Egypt once year, placing seventh overall, and placing ahead of Omar El Sheriff's team in the process. :towel:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1281

Post by Patagoniagirl » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:16 pm

boots wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:48 pm
Patagoniagirl wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:39 pm
I disagree. Even with p0rtia, who I LOVE. IF YOU FUCKING SUPPORT TRUMP, you are condoning racism. That makes you a racist. Or, because you are racist you support Trump. Yes, we have to live in this putrid stench of racism, but I don't, and won't be complicit by ignoring it.

Treating MAGA's with common Human courtesy is like having a nice time drinking beers or sharing a chummy meal with a Nazi.
That's ignorant. I know many good people, some of them black or other minorities, who support trump and who are not racists. I happen to live in an area that is a) historically Republican, and b) not very racist at all. I see it all the time.
You are calling me ignorant. I think that goes a long way to suggest just how much "I know blacks and minorities" blows. FU.

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1282

Post by Jim » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:28 pm

boots wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:48 pm
That's ignorant. I know many good people, some of them black or other minorities, who support trump and who are not racists. I happen to live in an area that is a) historically Republican, and b) not very racist at all. I see it all the time.
Yep, I grew up in a mixed neighborhood where there were many times I was the "token white" in a group. I saw it all the time when people made racists remarks without even realizing it and they didn't consider themselves racists. And yet, they were.

Just because you don't recognize racism, doesn't mean it's not there.

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1283

Post by boots » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:28 am

Patagoniagirl wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:16 pm
boots wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:48 pm
Patagoniagirl wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:39 pm
I disagree. Even with p0rtia, who I LOVE. IF YOU FUCKING SUPPORT TRUMP, you are condoning racism. That makes you a racist. Or, because you are racist you support Trump. Yes, we have to live in this putrid stench of racism, but I don't, and won't be complicit by ignoring it.

Treating MAGA's with common Human courtesy is like having a nice time drinking beers or sharing a chummy meal with a Nazi.
That's ignorant. I know many good people, some of them black or other minorities, who support trump and who are not racists. I happen to live in an area that is a) historically Republican, and b) not very racist at all. I see it all the time.
You are calling me ignorant. I think that goes a long way to suggest just how much "I know blacks and minorities" blows. FU.
You stated something which I think is ignorant. I said so. I didn't say you were generally ignorant or that you didn't know "blacks and minorities." Like I said earlier, mean people suck, and it doesn't matter to me what party they're in. Parties are their own form of bigotry and party loyalty is seriously overrated.

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1284

Post by boots » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:30 am

Jim wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:28 pm
boots wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:48 pm
That's ignorant. I know many good people, some of them black or other minorities, who support trump and who are not racists. I happen to live in an area that is a) historically Republican, and b) not very racist at all. I see it all the time.
Yep, I grew up in a mixed neighborhood where there were many times I was the "token white" in a group. I saw it all the time when people made racists remarks without even realizing it and they didn't consider themselves racists. And yet, they were.

Just because you don't recognize racism, doesn't mean it's not there.
So, minorities I know who support Trump, are all racists? Just trying to understand this. (it is entirely possible there is racism apparent to some people and not me, however).

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1285

Post by Whatever4 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:37 am

boots wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:30 am
Jim wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:28 pm
boots wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:48 pm
That's ignorant. I know many good people, some of them black or other minorities, who support trump and who are not racists. I happen to live in an area that is a) historically Republican, and b) not very racist at all. I see it all the time.
Yep, I grew up in a mixed neighborhood where there were many times I was the "token white" in a group. I saw it all the time when people made racists remarks without even realizing it and they didn't consider themselves racists. And yet, they were.

Just because you don't recognize racism, doesn't mean it's not there.
So, minorities I know who support Trump, are all racists? Just trying to understand this. (it is entirely possible there is racism apparent to some people and not me, however).
Racism isn’t just a black and white thing. Maybe they’ve bonded over a mutual hatred of Latinos. Or it could be a class thing.

Also — board rule is no personal attacks. Foggy will decide if some recent comments are over the line as this is his playpen, but please don’t escalate. Applies to everyone.
"[Moderate] doesn't mean you don't have views. It just means your views aren't predictable ideologically one way or the other, and you're trying to follow the facts where they lead and reach your own conclusions."
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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1286

Post by boots » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:42 am

Whatever4 wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:37 am
boots wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:30 am
Jim wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:28 pm


Yep, I grew up in a mixed neighborhood where there were many times I was the "token white" in a group. I saw it all the time when people made racists remarks without even realizing it and they didn't consider themselves racists. And yet, they were.

Just because you don't recognize racism, doesn't mean it's not there.
So, minorities I know who support Trump, are all racists? Just trying to understand this. (it is entirely possible there is racism apparent to some people and not me, however).
Racism isn’t just a black and white thing. Maybe they’ve bonded over a mutual hatred of Latinos. Or it could be a class thing.

Also — board rule is no personal attacks. Foggy will decide if some recent comments are over the line as this is his playpen, but please don’t escalate. Applies to everyone.
So, my friend, a black lawyer, married to a minority, has a "mutual hate of latinos" and you say that based on nothing? Because they are a different "class". I am sure glad I know people who don't fit into the boxes which I am told are mandatory. It sure would be hard to function in my current geographic area, or my current occupation, if I thought that was the case. I'm gonna think positively about this one. Sure glad I DON'T think that way.

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1287

Post by Estiveo » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:49 am

The operative word was "maybe."

Stop lashing out.
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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1288

Post by boots » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:58 am

Estiveo wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:49 am
The operative word was "maybe."

Stop lashing out.
Why suggest such a thing based on nothing?

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1289

Post by Estiveo » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:18 am

Maybe it's time to just stop.
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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1290

Post by Jim » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:02 am

boots wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:30 am
Jim wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:28 pm
boots wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:48 pm
That's ignorant. I know many good people, some of them black or other minorities, who support trump and who are not racists. I happen to live in an area that is a) historically Republican, and b) not very racist at all. I see it all the time.
Yep, I grew up in a mixed neighborhood where there were many times I was the "token white" in a group. I saw it all the time when people made racists remarks without even realizing it and they didn't consider themselves racists. And yet, they were.

Just because you don't recognize racism, doesn't mean it's not there.
So, minorities I know who support Trump, are all racists? Just trying to understand this. (it is entirely possible there is racism apparent to some people and not me, however).
I'd appreciate you not putting words into my mouth because as far as I know you're just making up the minorities you claim are Trump supporters (they are out there, and they may support Trump for other reasons and ignore the racism because it's not in their interest to make waves, like blacks have been doing for a couple centuries) like the righties who make up blacks using food stamps for cigs and alcohol.

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1291

Post by boots » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:10 am

Estiveo wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:18 am
Maybe it's time to just stop.
Yes, but for entirely different reasons than the ones you are suggesting.

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1292

Post by boots » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:11 am

Jim wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:02 am

I'd appreciate you not putting words into my mouth because as far as I know you're just making up the minorities you claim are Trump supporters (they are out there, and they may support Trump for other reasons and ignore the racism because it's not in their interest to make waves, like blacks have been doing for a couple centuries) like the righties who make up blacks using food stamps for cigs and alcohol.
I'd appreciate you not accusing me of making up things when I am discussing mundane everyday facts.

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1293

Post by Whatever4 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:54 am

boots wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:42 am
Whatever4 wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:37 am
boots wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:30 am


So, minorities I know who support Trump, are all racists? Just trying to understand this. (it is entirely possible there is racism apparent to some people and not me, however).
Racism isn’t just a black and white thing. Maybe they’ve bonded over a mutual hatred of Latinos. Or it could be a class thing.

Also — board rule is no personal attacks. Foggy will decide if some recent comments are over the line as this is his playpen, but please don’t escalate. Applies to everyone.
So, my friend, a black lawyer, married to a minority, has a "mutual hate of latinos" and you say that based on nothing? Because they are a different "class". I am sure glad I know people who don't fit into the boxes which I am told are mandatory. It sure would be hard to function in my current geographic area, or my current occupation, if I thought that was the case. I'm gonna think positively about this one. Sure glad I DON'T think that way.
I obviously don’t know your friends, and I clearly wasn’t accusing them of anything. I was suggesting a possible explanation for hidden racism. Individuals, like anecdotes, are not data: they are individuals. SOME individuals, regardless of race, support Trump for class reasons. SOME minorities support Trump because they don’t like other minorities (such as Latino, Asian, Native American, etc.). SOME might support Trump because they don’t like immigrants. Those are certainly not the only reasons. Have you asked them what their reasons are? You are more likely to know their reasons than we are.

I’d ask some locals, but I’m in Maine, in the most diverse city in the least diverse state in the US. Our black population is primarily recent immigrants.
"[Moderate] doesn't mean you don't have views. It just means your views aren't predictable ideologically one way or the other, and you're trying to follow the facts where they lead and reach your own conclusions."
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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1294

Post by Tarrant » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:21 am

The building I lived in in DC had a ballroom that was often rented out by various groups. One time, the Log Cabin Republicans were there and I spoke to one of them in the hallway as I was going to my home. The impression I got was that they absolutely acknowledged that should the party they were supporting take power, they could lose some of the rights that gay people had fought for. However, everyone has priorities, and while I prioritized the ability to not be fired or thrown out of a restaurant or home for who I am, they prioritized tax cuts or (more infrequently) religion over such things.

Were they themselves anti-gay? No, probably not, in that they’d rather get the tax cuts (or whatever) AND keep their rights. But it’s absolutely accurate to say that they were supporting an anti-gay party, and supporting candidates that were outspoken about their opposition to gay rights and/or used anti-gay rhetoric, and that the likely result of a victory by the candidates and/or party they were supporting would be increased anti-gay sentiment and legislation.

So the question I posed to them was “What level of anti-gay sentiment would it take for you to consider re-assessing your support for a candidate?” The answer was usually something like “That’s a stupid/moot question because no one would take things to the level of suggesting killing or jailing gay people anymore”.

So fine; even if I’m dubious in some instances I can take people at their word when they say they support Trump but aren’t racist. But then I pose the same question - what level of abject racism would it take before they say “You know, I’m not comfortable supporting a guy who says these things?” Because if that level doesn’t exist, then they definitely ARE racist.

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1295

Post by Tarrant » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:26 am

Whatever4 wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:54 am
I’d ask some locals, but I’m in Maine, in the most diverse city in the least diverse state in the US. Our black population is primarily recent immigrants.
Hey, as a New Hampshireite who often gets made fun of because of our lack of diversity, I can always point to Vermont, which is less diverse than either Maine or NH.

(One reason I always laughed at many Republican’s claims that a caravan of buses came in with thousands of black voters to commit election fraud in NH is the fact that an extra few thousand black people in NH would literally double the number of people of color within the state. Such a thing would be instantly noticeable...that, and the fact that all these people swearing up and down that they saw these caravans never seem to use the camera and video device everyone carries in their pocket to document it...)

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1296

Post by DejaMoo » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:16 pm

boots wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:04 pm
RoadScholar wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:01 pm
Well, that’s covered by my “denial” clause.
No, it isn't actually.

I'll tell my friend Nate, a lawyer who is black and who supports Trump, that he must be a racist and hate colored people. He'll be surprised to know that I am sure.
Try this: ask your friend Nate why he supports Trump.

Then ask him why he doesn't object to Trump's attacks on minorities, non-christians, women, the poor.

Then both of you, ponder this: Nate's decided that as long as he approves of whatever it is he likes about Trump, Trump's racism, sexism, and attacks on the underprivileged are okay with him.

That's what makes Nate a racist and a bigot. Because that's the side he's chosen. He can't pick and choose. Not when Trump's racism and inflaming of racial hatred and bigotry and xenophobia are core components of Trump's presidency.
I've heard this bull before.

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1297

Post by Reality Check » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:28 pm

I probably should have left the reference to the swastika out because no one wears them. However, I have the same feelings of revulsion when I see a MAGA hat as I do when I pass a house with a Confederate flag flying in the front yard or a pickup truck with a Confederate bumper sticker.

There are outliers in any group of people. I suspect the percentage of blacks who are Trump supporters is in the low single digits. I think if you talked with many MAGA hat wearing Trump supporters you would find that 9 out of 10 of them harbor racist tendencies and hatred of non-white people.
"“If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention.”

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1298

Post by p0rtia » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:33 pm

Tarrant wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:21 am
:snippity:
So the question I posed to them was “What level of anti-gay sentiment would it take for you to consider re-assessing your support for a candidate?” The answer was usually something like “That’s a stupid/moot question because no one would take things to the level of suggesting killing or jailing gay people anymore”.

So fine; even if I’m dubious in some instances I can take people at their word when they say they support Trump but aren’t racist. But then I pose the same question - what level of abject racism would it take before they say “You know, I’m not comfortable supporting a guy who says these things?” Because if that level doesn’t exist, then they definitely ARE racist.
:bighug:
No matter where you go, there you are! :towel:
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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1299

Post by Turtle » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:18 pm

Rush Limbaugh and Tucker Carlson tell them they're not racist, it's the people who accuse others of being racist who are the real racists.

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Re: Racism in America Becoming Fashionable Again

#1300

Post by boots » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:09 pm

DejaMoo wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:16 pm
boots wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:04 pm
RoadScholar wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:01 pm
Well, that’s covered by my “denial” clause.
No, it isn't actually.

I'll tell my friend Nate, a lawyer who is black and who supports Trump, that he must be a racist and hate colored people. He'll be surprised to know that I am sure.
Try this: ask your friend Nate why he supports Trump.

Then ask him why he doesn't object to Trump's attacks on minorities, non-christians, women, the poor.

Then both of you, ponder this: Nate's decided that as long as he approves of whatever it is he likes about Trump, Trump's racism, sexism, and attacks on the underprivileged are okay with him.

That's what makes Nate a racist and a bigot. Because that's the side he's chosen. He can't pick and choose. Not when Trump's racism and inflaming of racial hatred and bigotry and xenophobia are core components of Trump's presidency.
I'll read this to him at happy hour sometime.

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