Military and Civilian Gov't

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AndyinPA
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#76

Post by AndyinPA »

Guess not.
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." -- Thomas Paine

qbawl
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#77

Post by qbawl »

Obviously it failed inspection.

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RTH10260
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#78

Post by RTH10260 »

AndyinPA wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:11 pm
That fence, which he is enlarging, makes me nervous. It's surrounded by "secret police," probably the prison guard people. They report to Barr. I wonder if it will come down before, or after, the election in November. It's supposedly keeping people out, but could it also be used to keep someone out who might have to force him out in January?

Crazy times. I put nothing past him, particularly with Barr at his side.
Seems to be some concern among the Secret Service after there was a small breach of the WH grounds fence once last week. Unclear to what extent that Barr now considers himself Sheriff of D.C. together with his role of top prosecutor.


crossposting.
from https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/05/poli ... index.html
The White House is fortified ahead of a second weekend of expected protests, with a new layer of fencing the Secret Service says will be up through June 10.

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AndyinPA
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#79

Post by AndyinPA »

I'll believe it when I see it.
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." -- Thomas Paine

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Addie
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#80

Post by Addie »

NPR: Active Duty Troops On Standby Outside Washington, D.C., Being Sent Back To Home Bases

All of the approximately 1,600 active duty soldiers who were airlifted to military bases near Washington, D.C., earlier this week are being ordered back to their home postings, according the Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy.

The troops were mobilized to be deployed in the nation's capital if President Trump invoked the 1807 Insurrection Act, as he had threatened to do in a White House Rose Garden statement he made Monday evening.

Although the mobilized soldiers never entered the capital, they were part of a show of force by federal authorities in response to demonstrations triggered by the May 24 death of a black Minneapolis man, George Floyd, after a white policeman pushed a knee on his neck for more than eight minutes.

Some 700 of the mobilized troops from the 82nd Airborne Division already went back to their base at Fort Bragg, N.C., on Thursday. The remaining 900 were expected to leave bases in Maryland and Virginia "as soon as possible" for Fort Bragg and Fort Drum, N.Y.

Their return was to have started on Wednesday, but Defense Secretary Mark Esper reversed a departure order from Army Secretary McCarthy after meeting Wednesday afternoon with the president.

The defense secretary had publicly declared earlier Wednesday that he did not support invoking the Insurrection Act, which authorizes the use of federal troops for domestic disturbances.
"The very least you can do in your life is to figure out what you hope for." - Barbara Kingsolver

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Addie
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#81

Post by Addie »

"The very least you can do in your life is to figure out what you hope for." - Barbara Kingsolver

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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#82

Post by Addie »

WaPo: How Mattis reached his breaking point — and decided to speak out against Trump

For former defense secretary Jim Mattis, it was the last straw: the sight of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, walking the streets of downtown Washington in battle-ready camouflage amid a show of brute federal force.

Smoke was still rising from Lafayette Square, where authorities had just used pepper spray and smoke canisters to disperse a group of largely peaceful protesters, when Gen. Mark A. Milley, along with Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper, joined President Trump Monday evening as he strolled to a nearby church to pose for cameras with a Bible.

In Mattis’s eyes, the appearance of the two top military leaders appeared to condone an unprovoked use of force. The nonpartisan military that Mattis had served for nearly five decades was being featured as decoration for a photo op, and Mattis fumed that the president was using the leaders who replaced him at the Defense Department to further divide the nation, according to four people familiar with his thinking.

He was especially upset to see Milley — whom Mattis believed had sought to curry favor with Trump when he was defense secretary — appear in his Army combat uniform at a peaceful demonstration. That jarring image highlighted the military’s involvement in a heavy-handed crackdown on civilians.

With that, the military historian and retired Marine general decided it was time to call out the damage he saw Trump doing to the country.
"The very least you can do in your life is to figure out what you hope for." - Barbara Kingsolver

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pipistrelle
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#83

Post by pipistrelle »

Paging John Kelly!!

Or is he gonna put his reaction in his book?

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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#84

Post by Addie »

Business Insider: 89 former defense officials say they are 'alarmed' by Trump's threat to use the military to end nationwide unrest
"The very least you can do in your life is to figure out what you hope for." - Barbara Kingsolver

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Addie
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#85

Post by Addie »

Cross-posting
CNN: Esper and Milley refuse to testify about military's role in policing protests, source says

(CNN) Defense Secretary Mark Esper and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley have refused to testify next week before the House Armed Services Committee regarding the military's role responding to protests triggered by the death of George Floyd, a Democratic congressional aide confirmed to CNN Friday.

An informal briefing for lawmakers by Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy was also canceled for Friday, the aide said.

Rep. Adam Smith, the Democratic chairman of the House panel, called on Esper and Milley to appear in person before the committee "to explain this domestic engagement to the American people" this week, emphasizing that "the fate of our democracy depends on how we navigate this time of crisis."

"At a time when our nation is hurting the President continues to forgo any effort to calm tensions, as we had all hoped he would. Instead he used force to remove peaceful protesters to stage a photo opportunity. Instead of taking a moment of silence in front of the historic St Johns' Episcopal Church to pray for the lives lost he gathered his cronies to take a picture. Instead of doing the right thing, he once again did the absolute wrong thing," Smith said in a statement Wednesday.
"The very least you can do in your life is to figure out what you hope for." - Barbara Kingsolver

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Addie
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#86

Post by Addie »

CNN Video
pipistrelle wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:07 am
Paging John Kelly!!

Or is he gonna put his reaction in his book?
"The very least you can do in your life is to figure out what you hope for." - Barbara Kingsolver

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pipistrelle
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#87

Post by pipistrelle »

Addie wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:31 am
Cross-posting
CNN: Esper and Milley refuse to testify about military's role in policing protests, source says
Can they be compelled? Because what's the good of oversight if you can't oversee?

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p0rtia
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#88

Post by p0rtia »

pipistrelle wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:37 am
Addie wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:31 am
Cross-posting
CNN: Esper and Milley refuse to testify about military's role in policing protests, source says
Can they be compelled? Because what's the good of oversight if you can't oversee?
A good question--for the past three years. There is no oversight; there is no functioning Constitution, IMO. I have learned that laws depend on norms of behavior, and we ain't got none anymore.
No matter where you go, there you are! :towel:
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Addie
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#89

Post by Addie »

Cross-posting
Associated Press: Joint Chiefs Of Staff Chairman Privately Reached Out To Dem Leadership This Week

WASHINGTON (AP) — The nation’s top military officer, Gen. Mark Milley, spoke privately with congressional leaders and many other lawmakers as Pentagon officials came under fire for the military’s role in containing protests following the police killing of George Floyd.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., called Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to express her concerns on Tuesday, according to two people who were not authorized to publicly discuss the private conversations and were granted anonymity. That was the day after authorities cleared protesters near the White House so President Donald Trump could hold a photo opportunity at a nearby church. Milley and Defense Secretary Mark Esper were sharply criticized for accompanying Trump and thereby giving the impression of endorsing a politicization of the military.

Milley also reached out Tuesday to Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer of New York, said another person granted anonymity to discuss the situation. A third official said Milley had spoke with perhaps 20 or more members of Congress in the days following Monday’s photo op and Trump’s implicit threat to invoke the Insurrection Act to permit him to use federal troops in a law enforcement role in the nation’s capital and in other cities.

The outreach comes as Milley and Defense Secretary Mark Esper have tried to contain damage in the aftermath of Monday’s walk with Trump. Federal authorities used smoke canisters and pepper balls to clear peaceful protesters from a park so the president and his entourage could walk to the church and Trump could pose with a Bible.
"The very least you can do in your life is to figure out what you hope for." - Barbara Kingsolver

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pipistrelle
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#90

Post by pipistrelle »

Hmmm. Did Individual-1 order Milley to break out the "we're at war" wardrobe?

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AndyinPA
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#91

Post by AndyinPA »

As an aside, if Esper and Milley can refuse to testify then I see absolutely no reason why any Democrat should show up for the circus Graham is planning.
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." -- Thomas Paine

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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#92

Post by jemcanada »

p0rtia wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:03 am
pipistrelle wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:37 am
Addie wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:31 am
Cross-posting
Can they be compelled? Because what's the good of oversight if you can't oversee?
A good question--for the past three years. There is no oversight; there is no functioning Constitution, IMO. I have learned that laws depend on norms of behavior, and we ain't got none anymore.
Sadly, I am becoming a doom sayer too, Portia :brokenheart:

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p0rtia
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#93

Post by p0rtia »

That said, everybody is applauded Milley on MSNBC lately. But my question is, if he has refused a request to appear before a House committee, and if indeed his oath was to the Constitution (which we know it was), how can he look himself in the mirror?
No matter where you go, there you are! :towel:
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RTH10260
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#94

Post by RTH10260 »

Was Milley perhaps one of those that took to the tightrope and balanced between Constituion and Oath, and preventing the Baby in the Oval Office from doing even stupidier stuff while getting sidelined by the Kushner family ?

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Addie
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#95

Post by Addie »

Gen. Wes Clark:
AlterNet: Former NATO supreme commander: The tide is turning on Trump

How do you evaluate Donald Trump as a leader?

Trump is a very good example of what not to do and be as a leader. He doesn’t take responsibility. He doesn’t build trust. He doesn’t bring people together. He doesn’t do his homework and understand the details of the decisions he’s making. He doesn’t think through the strategic consequences.

Donald Trump is a transactional leader. He thinks that being president of the United States is the same as buying real estate. Donald Trump also believes that he can use reckless rhetoric and that there will not be any consequences. In both international and domestic politics, language has consequences. Trump’s abusive language is very problematic.

Reliability and consistency are very important. Trump does not have those qualities.

As the president of the United States, he represents the whole country. The United States has spent 75 years since the end of World War II assuring the world that we had strong values and that was true across administrations. America also made sure the world understood that we were reliable. President Trump has discarded those values.
Adding:
Salon: Gen. Wesley Clark on Trump and the protests: "We are seeing the turning of the tide"

Former NATO supreme commander on Trump's threat to send in troops: "That is not the way to resolve our problems"
"The very least you can do in your life is to figure out what you hope for." - Barbara Kingsolver

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RTH10260
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#96

Post by RTH10260 »

Addie wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:59 am
Gen. Wes Clark:
AlterNet: Former NATO supreme commander: The tide is turning on Trump

How do you evaluate Donald Trump as a leader?

Trump is a very good example of what not to do and be as a leader. He doesn’t take responsibility. He doesn’t build trust. He doesn’t bring people together. He doesn’t do his homework and understand the details of the decisions he’s making. He doesn’t think through the strategic consequences.

Donald Trump is a transactional leader. He thinks that being president of the United States is the same as buying real estate. Donald Trump also believes that he can use reckless rhetoric and that there will not be any consequences. In both international and domestic politics, language has consequences. Trump’s abusive language is very problematic.

Reliability and consistency are very important. Trump does not have those qualities.

As the president of the United States, he represents the whole country. The United States has spent 75 years since the end of World War II assuring the world that we had strong values and that was true across administrations. America also made sure the world understood that we were reliable. President Trump has discarded those values.
" He thinks that being president of the United States is the same as buying real estate. "
Did anyone listen to candidate T prior to the election? He shouted it from the trees that he will run the government like his crime family enterprises.

"Reliability and consistency are very important. Trump does not have those qualities."
Tsk tsk tsk - he is reliable and consistent an ass****

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Addie
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#97

Post by Addie »

CNN: Top general apologizes for appearing in photo-op with Trump after forceful removal of

Washington (CNN) America's top general is apologizing for appearing in a photo-op with President Donald Trump after the forceful dispersal of protesters outside the White House last week, saying the move was a "mistake."

Gen. Mark Milley, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff also said that he was "outraged" by the killing of George Floyd and added that the protests it sparked spoke to "centuries of injustice toward African Americans."

"As senior leaders, everything you do will be closely watched. And I am not immune. As many of you saw, the result of the photograph of me at Lafayette Square last week. That sparked a national debate about the role of the military in civil society," Milley, said in a pre-recorded speech to a group of graduates from the National Defense University released on Thursday.

"I should not have been there. My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics. As a commissioned uniformed officer, it was a mistake that I have learned from, and I sincerely hope we all can learn from it," he added.
"The very least you can do in your life is to figure out what you hope for." - Barbara Kingsolver

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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#98

Post by RVInit »

I think it is really important that Milley made this statement at the National Defense University War College.

Aside from failing to mention that Trump has deliberately given up the USA's leadership position in the world at large, most of his comments regarding race and his admission that he should not have participated in Trump's political stunt were appropriate.

"I know that human being and fish can coexist peacefully"
--- George W Bush

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pipistrelle
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#99

Post by pipistrelle »

RVInit wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:01 pm
I think it is really important that Milley made this statement at the National Defense University War College.

Aside from failing to mention that Trump has deliberately given up the USA's leadership position in the world at large, most of his comments regarding race and his admission that he should not have participated in Trump's political stunt were appropriate.

But I want to know why he chose to dress like he was going into battle. Or was he ordered to?

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RTH10260
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Re: Military and Civilian Gov't

#100

Post by RTH10260 »

pipistrelle wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:36 pm
RVInit wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:01 pm
I think it is really important that Milley made this statement at the National Defense University War College.

Aside from failing to mention that Trump has deliberately given up the USA's leadership position in the world at large, most of his comments regarding race and his admission that he should not have participated in Trump's political stunt were appropriate.

https:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AKmmApwi0M
But I want to know why he chose to dress like he was going into battle. Or was he ordered to?
Just a gut feeling and how military minds work: he went to visit National Guard troops in "active" state, and it does not look good showing up as being ready for dinner at the Post hotel.

ETA may have missed the point, my comment was regarding the walk with impotus.

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