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Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Britney Spears Conservatorship

#1

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

Calling California lawyers to 'splain what happening.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com
Opinion: Britney Spears' troubling conservatorship isn't unique. Iowa officials must continue to battle abuses.
In Iowa, there have been documented cases of serious conservatorship abuse involving conservators misappropriating and misusing assets and charging excessive and unjustifiable fees.


The case of pop star Britney Spears is increasing public awareness of long-standing major problems in guardianship and conservatorship systems in Iowa and other states. Thirteen years ago, a court appointed Britney Spears’ father as her conservator, granting him the power to make decisions for her because of concerns about her mental health. Her conservatorship has continued to this day despite that fact that she has been able to earn millions of dollars from her performances during the conservatorship. Last week she asked a court to end the court-imposed conservatorship, describing it as abusive. A judge declined a request from Spears this week.

Conservatorship is a legal arrangement under which a court appoints someone to make decisions about the financial affairs of an adult with diminished decision-making. A guardianship is a legal arrangement under which a court appoints someone to make decisions about the personal affairs of an adult with diminished decision-making capacity. The purpose and intent of such arrangements is to protect these highly vulnerable adults.

Over 23,000 Iowans are under conservatorship and guardianship. Iowans under conservatorship include adults with intellectual disabilities, Alzheimer’s and other types of dementias, mental illnesses, and brain injuries.

The Britney Spears case highlights the need to prevent conservatorship abuse. In Iowa, there have been documented cases of serious conservatorship abuse involving conservators misappropriating and misusing the assets of persons under conservatorship and involving conservators charging excessive and unjustifiable fees.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

#2

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

Britney Spears forced IUD sparks important conversations about disability, reproductive rights

Britney Spears said many things when she addressed the court Wednesday and spoke for 20 minutes about the way her years-long conservatorship has affected her life, but one detail shocked her fanbase and fueled conversations about reproductive and disability rights.

“I want to be able to get married and have a baby,” she said during the hearing. “I was told right now in the conservatorship, I’m not able to get married or have a baby. I have (an) IUD inside of (me) right now, so I don’t get pregnant.

"Britney Spears has experienced the nexus of sexism and sanism in the public eye and now the court system," disability rights activist Rebecca Cokley said. "Having her right to parent, her right to work or not to work, her very right to bodily autonomy taken away for someone's profit for 13 years is a public policy failure. One all too common for people with mental illness and developmental disabilities."

Daniel Nottes, a partner at the Cassin & Cassin law firm, called Spears' situation “very extreme."

Spears' conservatorship began in 2008 after she suffered a very public mental breakdown in 2007. She has spoken out against her father, James "Jamie" Spears, who has been part of managing the conservatorship from the beginning. In 2020, she told a judge via her lawyer that "she is afraid of her father."

"There is a very long history in the United States of forced sterilization of people – especially women of color – with disabilities or perceived disabilities," said Sam Crane, legal director of the Autistic Self Advocacy Network.

As Cokley explained, "Buck v. Bell is still law today and allows the state to sterilize people with disabilities against their will. Britney's IUD story is the legacy of that case."
"Mickey Mouse and I grew up together." - Ruthie Tompson, Disney animation checker and scene planner and one of the first women to become a member of the International Photographers Union in 1952.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Post by Patagoniagirl »

Remember the series "I Care a Lot" and how some loved it? This is one of the reasons I found it revolting.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Post by slq »

Now that the grifting has been exposed, I see that various grifters are withdrawing. The latest? Her attorney:

Britney Spears's court-appointed conservatorship attorney, Samuel Ingham, is requesting to resign one day after longtime manager Larry Rudolph quit.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/bri ... VTsmeKzMYr
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Post by Mr brolin »

Publicity.....Light....... Cockroach scurry..... ?

From my perspective, I would feel it hard to disagree that at the height of her issues....the umbrella poking, substance abuse, self abuse issues etc, she did need some degree of time bounded, properly reviewed conservatorship for her own safety.

However, if she is so fragile, so in need of having her personal rights taken away from her....how come she still had to do concerts, residencies, albums etc for her estate....?

Too fragile or not too fragile....can't see how it can be both...... :pickle:
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

#6

Post by slq »

That's how I see it. All of these people benefitted greatly from her work. Work she did (was forced to do?) while under the conservatorship and did well, earning mucho dinero. Which mostly benefitted all of these people and not Britney. Who needed to be in a conservatorship all these years because . . .
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Post by sugar magnolia »

Her father and her manager(?) both denied the accusation about the IUD and I'm guessing there was more medical info the judge had available than what was released publicly before he sided with them, so I'm not sure what to think. If CA's conservatorship applies only to financial affairs I don't see how they could make medical decisions for her, unless she also has a guardian. And making millions performing doesn't mean she has good judgment. The fact that she's making millions, if she is incapable of handling her own finances, seems like a conservatorship is a good solution.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Post by zekeb »

sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:55 am Her father and her manager(?) both denied the accusation about the IUD and I'm guessing there was more medical info the judge had available than what was released publicly before he sided with them, so I'm not sure what to think. If CA's conservatorship applies only to financial affairs I don't see how they could make medical decisions for her, unless she also has a guardian. And making millions performing doesn't mean she has good judgment. The fact that she's making millions, if she is incapable of handling her own finances, seems like a conservatorship is a good solution.
I don't know the story. The Free Brittany people don't know the story. I'm sure the Court has more information. I don't know what they do in the cases of women with a sub-80 IQ. I never hear of them having children, but I don't know any personally nor do I see many out in public unless they are with a guardian.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

#9

Post by Lani »

80-89 is low average, 70-79 is borderline, about 20% of the population. (Education IQ test) Being about 1 in 5 people are in this range, we're all likely to have known or interacted with people in this range.

71-84 is borderline intellectual functioning. (Psychiatric IQ test)
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Post by zekeb »

Lani wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:44 am 80-89 is low average, 70-79 is borderline, about 20% of the population. (Education IQ test) Being about 1 in 5 people are in this range, we're all likely to have known or interacted with people in this range.

71-84 is borderline intellectual functioning. (Psychiatric IQ test)
My statement refers more to those with diminished mental capacities. Have the states sterilized or implanted IUDs in them? I'm saying that I never see any with children of their own. Certainly you can't shelter them completely from having sex. I suspect that Brittany has an average or above average IQ, but the courts have ruled that she has a diminished mental capacity. At what point can a court hand a woman's reproductive rights to another?
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

#11

Post by sugar magnolia »

zekeb wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:24 am At what point can a court hand a woman's reproductive rights to another?
Every time they pass some fuckwitted anti-abortion law.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

#12

Post by June bug »

The judge who denied her request did so on the basis of something filed last fall, I think around November. As far as I know that decision had nothing to do with her reproductive rights or any restrictions on them. It was coincidental, and confusing, that the decision came down right after her testimony about that in her separate, more recent request.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

#13

Post by GlimDropper »

Emily D. Baker has been covering the Britney conservatorship in pretty granular detail. She's an attorney and breaks down the court filings in more or less plain language. This is her most recent video (from last night) but there are numerous other videos leading up to it for those interested:

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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

#14

Post by raison de arizona »

zekeb wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:30 am I don't know the story. The Free Brittany people don't know the story. I'm sure the Court has more information. I don't know what they do in the cases of women with a sub-80 IQ. I never hear of them having children, but I don't know any personally nor do I see many out in public unless they are with a guardian.
Not that IQ numbers necessarily mean anything, and also not that any reports you see in the media are accurate, but the number I've consistently seen thrown around for Brittany is 104. Beyonce, on the other hand, reportedly scores sub-80 (78).
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

#15

Post by zekeb »

covfefe wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:01 pm
zekeb wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:30 am I don't know the story. The Free Brittany people don't know the story. I'm sure the Court has more information. I don't know what they do in the cases of women with a sub-80 IQ. I never hear of them having children, but I don't know any personally nor do I see many out in public unless they are with a guardian.
Not that IQ numbers necessarily mean anything, and also not that any reports you see in the media are accurate, but the number I've consistently seen thrown around for Brittany is 104. Beyonce, on the other hand, reportedly scores sub-80 (78).
Everyone is missing my point. Does the court or a guardian have the right to have someone insert an IUD in another woman? If so, where's the cutoff, as far as the woman's mental state is concerned?
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

#16

Post by dan1100 »

sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:55 am Her father and her manager(?) both denied the accusation about the IUD and I'm guessing there was more medical info the judge had available than what was released publicly before he sided with them, so I'm not sure what to think. If CA's conservatorship applies only to financial affairs I don't see how they could make medical decisions for her, unless she also has a guardian. And making millions performing doesn't mean she has good judgment. The fact that she's making millions, if she is incapable of handling her own finances, seems like a conservatorship is a good solution.
Someone from California can correct me, but apparently in Cal. "Conservatorship of the Person" means what Guardianship means in most states.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

#17

Post by zekeb »

It went beyond finances. She lost custody of her children.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Post by sugar magnolia »

zekeb wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:26 pm It went beyond finances. She lost custody of her children.
She lost custody of her children in the divorce, before the conservatorship was put in place. They originally split custody 50-50 until she refused to give the kids back when she was supposed to. The responding officers set in motion her being committed to a psyche ward because of her behavior. The conservatorship happened after that.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Post by raison de arizona »

zekeb wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:16 pm Everyone is missing my point. Does the court or a guardian have the right to have someone insert an IUD in another woman? If so, where's the cutoff, as far as the woman's mental state is concerned?
In Buck v. Bell, 1927 the Supreme Court held that forced sterilization of the "feeble-minded" was legal, and over 60k women were sterilized. The practice was stopped in the 70s, but to my knowledge the case has never been overturned. Reading the article, it sounds like Virginia may have set the bar at a mental age of nine years.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Post by Lani »

Sterilization because of "feeble-minded" which was widely interpreted including being single and having a baby, "immoral" which was interpreted very broadly, and not white. BTW, pregnant b/c of rape also easily fell into these categories. Virginia was one of the last states to end that practice. (Long, sad story about that....)

Anyway, it still goes on. For a very recent example, the doctor who secretly sterilized immigrants being held for hearings.

OOPS, West Virginia was the last state to repeal the law. https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/poli ... 44e52.html

And Oregon was the last state to end forced sterilization. "... last forced eugenic sterilization in 1981. In 1983 a subcommittee of the Oregon State Senate drafted legislation to repeal the 1917 statute and to abolish the Board of Social Protection."
https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/oregon-sta ... d-eugenics
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Post by LM K »

sugar magnolia wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:55 am Her father and her manager(?) both denied the accusation about the IUD and I'm guessing there was more medical info the judge had available than what was released publicly before he sided with them, so I'm not sure what to think. If CA's conservatorship applies only to financial affairs I don't see how they could make medical decisions for her, unless she also has a guardian. And making millions performing doesn't mean she has good judgment. The fact that she's making millions, if she is incapable of handling her own finances, seems like a conservatorship is a good solution.
Based on her testimony, I believe that she's not completely in charge of her medical choices.

Britney is on lithium (according to her hearing testimony). You cannot get pregnant when on lithium. It's causes significant heart defects in developing fetuses during the first trimester of pregnancy. Many psychiatrists recommend using an IUD when on lithium. It's unusual for those with bipolar disorder to be on only one mood stabilizer.

I think the IUD accusation, if true, is linked to the meds Britney is on. IUDs are brilliant for women with bipolar disorder. Two common symptom of manic episodes are hypersexuality and decreased impulse control.

Britney wants to have another child. Until she is on mood stabilizers that are less dangerous during pregnancy, she is taking a big risk. In addition, there could be sticky legal issues if she has another child. She lost custody of both her sons in 2007. Based on her testimony, I'm not certain if she understands the severity of her illness. I'm not sure she's accepted her disease. But I don't know.

Putting on my Ms. Shrinky Lady hat :oldlady: and reading between the lines ... Britney probably needs to stop her meds before becoming pregnant. Bipolar patients typically go through many meds before finding the right med cocktail for them. I don't know if that's the case for Britney. Lithium is often one of the first meds for those who have high manic episodes, which I suspect Britney has. Lithium is the gold standard for those with multiple manic episodes.

I have bipolar disorder. I decided to not get pregnant because going off my meds is terrifying for me. I don't feel like I would be a good mom right after birth. Who knows how long it would take me to stabilize after giving birth? No one knows.

I remember trying lithium. My psychiatrist was very blunt about birth control. He wouldn't prescribe it unless I was using birth control. I already had (and continue to have) an IUD.

That said, no one should be forced to use contraception. Britney's conservatorship sounds unethical. It sounds like she's a slave performing for the financial desires of others.

My educated guess: Britney has a difficult time staying on her meds, which isn't unusual for those with bipolar disorder. I'm almost certain that the Judge had detailed psychiatric evaluations for Britney, and he based his decision on those evals.

Here's the thing. If Britney wasn't wealthy, she wouldn't be under the control of others to this extent. She'd only be "controlled" if she was a risk to herself or others, and thus hospitalized, or she was breaking the law and jailed. She absolutely would not be forced to use contraception.

Medication non-compliance can be a significant reason for hospitalization and/or incarceration. But there are many ways to monitor medication non-compliance without a conservatorship.

And Britney may be medication compliant.

If Britney continues to need conservationists, I think her father needs to be out of the situation and that all of her current conservatorship members be changed. And she should be allowed to retire from her career if that's what she wants.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Post by Lani »

She did complain about her reactions to lithium and wants to stop taking it. (I think I read that in this tread, but it might have been another report.) Aren't there other medications to replace it, if need be?
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

#23

Post by raison de arizona »

Lani wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:55 am She did complain about her reactions to lithium and wants to stop taking it. (I think I read that in this tread, but it might have been another report.) Aren't there other medications to replace it, if need be?
Lithium is a hammer. It can cause physical side effects, like diarrhea and stuff, but mentally it is a brute. It's like a big virtual blanket that falls over your whole being, everything is muffled and thinking about something or talking to someone takes a few extra mental steps to stay with it. I had a hard time on it, but it definitely worked for the bipolar. At what cost though?

There are a number of drug cocktails that it can be replaced with (lithium is generally part of a cocktail itself for that matter.) That all takes time and cooperation with a good psychopharmacologist. And in addition to old standbys (like your lithiums, etc.) there are a number of new drugs to try out and see if they work for you.

Short answer: Yes, there are other medications to replace lithium, if need be.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

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Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

Thanks, LM K and covfefe, for the info about lithium.

My eldest brother is bipolar and came to terms with his disease many years (35 or so) ago. He has been through many drug variations.

When I started taking Prozac 30 years ago for a clinical depression episode (my first ever antidepressant), he warned me about possible homicidal thoughts. :shock: Do you know about that side effect? At the time, I was concerned Prozac might cause suicidal impulses.
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Re: Britney Spears Conservatorship

#25

Post by RVInit »

I dated a man once that worked for the Clerk of Court. He had an interesting "side duty" that went with his job - he audited every single guardianship for the whole county so the guardians couldn't line their and their friends pockets. Unfortunately, not every county in Florida has that kind of arrangement. I think all jurisdictions should have a "disinterested" party auditing the guardianship/conservatorship. just my two cents.
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