Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

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Orlylicious
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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#76

Post by Orlylicious » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:53 am

With no SecDef for six months, and Donald unchecked, oy.
Trump Approves Strikes on Iran, but Then Abruptly Pulls Back
Michael D. Shear, Eric Schmitt, Michael Crowley and Maggie Haberman 2 hrs ago

WASHINGTON — President Trump approved military strikes against Iran in retaliation for downing an American surveillance drone, but pulled back from launching them on Thursday night after a day of escalating tensions.

As late as 7 p.m., military and diplomatic officials were expecting a strike, after intense discussions and debate at the White House among the president’s top national security officials and congressional leaders, according to multiple senior administration officials involved in or briefed on the deliberations.

The operation was underway in its early stages when it was called off, a senior administration official said. Planes were in the air and ships were in position, but no missiles had been fired when word came to stand down, the official said.

The abrupt reversal put a halt to what would have been the president’s third military action against targets in the Middle East. Mr. Trump had struck twice at targets in Syria, in 2017 and 2018.

It was not clear whether Mr. Trump simply changed his mind on the strikes or whether the administration altered course because of logistics or strategy. It was also not clear whether the attacks might still go forward.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/tr ... li=BBnb7Kz
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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#77

Post by busterbunker » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:55 am

I just spoke with a senior advisor. Trump got a call from Putin. Putin told him to stand down.

As I said to my senior advisor, "yeah, you might be right, mom."

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#78

Post by tek » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:32 am

busterbunker wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:55 am
I just spoke with a senior advisor. Trump got a call from Putin. Putin told him to stand down.

As I said to my senior advisor, "yeah, you might be right, mom."
:lol:
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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#79

Post by Foggy » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:15 am

busterbunker wins the internet! :rotflmao:
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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#80

Post by Volkonski » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:49 am

ABC News

Verified account

@ABC
11m11 minutes ago
More
FAA prohibits "all U.S. carriers and commercial operators" from flying over the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman, near Iran, as tensions rise.
Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#81

Post by Volkonski » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:17 am

Trump's spin-
Donald J. Trump

Verified account

@realDonaldTrump
12m12 minutes ago
More
....On Monday they shot down an unmanned drone flying in International Waters. We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not....

....proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone. I am in no hurry, our Military is rebuilt, new, and ready to go, by far the best in the world. Sanctions are biting & more added last night. Iran can NEVER have Nuclear Weapons, not against the USA, and not against the WORLD!
Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#82

Post by Jeffrey » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:19 am

That’s one of trumps most interesting tweets. He takes soldiers lives into account when doing moral calculus but doesn’t do the same when the math involves immigrants.

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#83

Post by tek » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:31 am

....On Monday they shot down an unmanned drone flying in International Waters. We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not....
I've been cocked & loaded before, but never was I proud of it the next morning.
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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#84

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:33 am

In a battle of nerves with Iran, Trump blinked. It's dangerous to be thought of as a paper tiger when the people pushing Trump are all hawks.

Chaos foreign policy is not going to work out well for us. It will expose Trump's utter incompetence -- but at what price?

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#85

Post by ZekeB » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:38 am

As Pelosi (I think it was) said, "He's going to bumble us into a war with Iran." One of these days it will be learned that war with these small countries is a no-win for us.
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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#86

Post by Hurtzi » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:41 am

The American government lies to us as usual.There is no "international "airspace " in the straits of Hormuz.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Hormuz
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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#87

Post by fierceredpanda » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:42 am

Hurtzi wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:41 am
The American government lies to us as usual.There is no "international "airspace " in the straits of Hormuz.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Hormuz
That's because it was actually over the Gulf of Oman when it was shot down, not the Straits, but try getting reporters to understand the geographical distinction.
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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#88

Post by Addie » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:59 pm

WaPo - Paul Waldman
The slow-motion disaster of Trump’s foreign policy

Having withdrawn the United States from a series of international agreements, then spending a couple of years denigrating NATO while wondering why more countries aren’t paying us protection money, President Trump is apparently not so hot on our alliance with Japan, either. ...

As the article notes, Trump hasn’t actually done anything about this yet, and perhaps never will. What he is doing when he’s not making our allies uneasy, however, is steadily creating a foreign policy that undermines pretty much every goal the United States has.

While Trump’s obvious reluctance to get caught in an Iraq-style quagmire might keep him from initiating a large-scale catastrophe, his foreign policy is essentially a series of small- to mid-scale errors and blunders, degrading the U.S. position piece by piece.

This has happened because Trump is, as he sold himself, an outsider unconstrained by tradition or the views of the “establishment.” Unfortunately, he’s also unconstrained by even a cursory understanding of history, any interest in knowing what motivates both friends and foes, or a commitment to the kind of values that the United States has attempted to propagate throughout the world.

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#89

Post by RTH10260 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:05 pm

Addie wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:59 pm
WaPo - Paul Waldman
The slow-motion disaster of Trump’s foreign policy

Having withdrawn the United States from a series of international agreements, then spending a couple of years denigrating NATO while wondering why more countries aren’t paying us protection money, President Trump is apparently not so hot on our alliance with Japan, either. ...
:snippity:
:o
Important quotation not carried over:
Bloomberg News wrote:
President Donald Trump has recently mused to confidants about withdrawing from a longstanding defense treaty with Japan, according to three people familiar with the matter, in his latest complaint about what he sees as unfair U.S. security pacts.

Trump regards the accord as too one-sided because it promises U.S. aid if Japan is ever attacked, but doesn’t oblige Japan’s military to come to America’s defense, the people said. The treaty, signed more than 60 years ago, forms the foundation of the alliance between the countries that emerged from World War II.

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#90

Post by HST's Ghost » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:51 am

The Japanese govt. responded to it as "fake news" and Drumpfy is a fan of the misdirect, so he trots this out again, or someone else leaked it for their own ends, right before the G20 in Osaka, so perhaps to put pressure on making a trade deal - some good analysis in the below article...It will be fun to watch their interactions at the summit...
Japanese government cites White House as denying report Trump considered ending defense pact

“There is no such talk as is mentioned in the report. We have confirmed with the U.S. president that (the report) is inconsistent with the American government’s position,” Suga told a regular briefing on Tuesday evening.

The spokesman went on to reassert that the “Japan-U.S. alliance is the linchpin of our diplomatic and national defense policy,” emphasizing that the two allies are “closely coordinating” to preserve the peace and security of the international community.

Experts interviewed by The Japan Times by and large questioned the seriousness of Trump’s reported remark, saying the odds are slim his administration is strategically contemplating the scrapping of the decades-old military alliance.

:snippity: :snippity:

Given that Trump is set to visit Japan later this week to attend the G20 summit, “it’s possible that Trump’s allies in charge of economic issues used his comments politically by leaking them to the press,” he said.

Trump, Sahashi said, is fundamentally an “independent actor” in his administration, whose mercurial remarks are often used by his aides to serve their own interests — whether in terms of relationships with China or Japan, Sahashi said.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/ ... RMFxuszaUk
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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#91

Post by Suranis » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:04 am

Its trumps way of Negotiating. Issue threats before you meet to make them desperate to say yes. Either that or talk about how much you are in love or generally suck upto make them all hot for a you and a deal.

Of course it does not work, but whats new.
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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#92

Post by Addie » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:58 am

Business Insider: International summits like G20 always seem to bring out the worst in Trump

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#93

Post by much ado » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:23 pm

Addie wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:58 am
Business Insider: International summits like G20 always seem to bring out the worst in Trump
I'm sure there's even worse stuff in Trump we haven't seen yet.

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#94

Post by Addie » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:29 pm

Think Progress
Trump just publicly proved he couldn’t pass a middle-school civics test

President Donald Trump embarrassed the country yet again on the international stage this past week during the G20 summit. Speaking to reporters in Osaka, Japan where the summit was held, Trump displayed a complete lack of understanding when it comes to basic history and political terminology.

When asked by The New York Times about Russian president Vladimir Putin’s comments about Western liberalism being “obsolete,” Trump took that to mean literally liberals living on the west coast of the United States.

“He’s sees what’s going on, I guess, if you look at what’s happening in Los Angeles, where it’s so sad to look, and what’s happening in San Francisco and a couple of other cities, which are run by an extraordinary group of liberal people,” Trump told the Times.

“I don’t know what they’re thinking,” he added. “But when you look at Los Angeles, when you look at San Francisco, when you look at some of the other cities — and not a lot, not a lot — but you don’t want it to spread.”

What Putin was referring to, of course, is liberalism in the Western world, which consists most of Europe and the United States. In this usage, “liberalism” refers not to progressive or leftist policies, but to individual rights, equality before the law, and democracy and consent to be governed, in contrast to a dictatorship or populism or minority rule. In recent European Union elections, however, nationalist, populist parties have been gaining influence in countries like Italy and Poland. That is what Putin meant by those comments, not what liberal politicians in California or Washington state are doing.

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#95

Post by Gregg » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:04 pm

RTH10260 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:05 pm
Bloomberg News wrote:
President Donald Trump has recently mused to confidants about withdrawing from a longstanding defense treaty with Japan, according to three people familiar with the matter, in his latest complaint about what he sees as unfair U.S. security pacts.

Trump regards the accord as too one-sided because it promises U.S. aid if Japan is ever attacked, but doesn’t oblige Japan’s military to come to America’s defense, the people said. The treaty, signed more than 60 years ago, forms the foundation of the alliance between the countries that emerged from World War II.
The origins of that treaty and policy go back to the end of WWII where we kind of talked Japan into not having Armed Forces (What they have they call a Self Defense Force) and the US Imposed Constitution of Japan that renounces the force of arms. We told them they shouldn't re-arm and promised to protect them if they would do as we asked.

And if I read this in a book in High School, you'd think that if The President of the United States didn't know it, he'd have someone on the payroll that would fill him in before he went and trashed it.
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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#96

Post by Fortinbras » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:12 pm

A very neglected element of foreign policy has been improving life in South America.

Those many thousands of "illegals" coming to our borders are coming even though they know in advance that they will be thrown into detention centers and their children will be put in cages, and yet they come anyway. Because Central and South America is so godawful that even a US jail is an inviting improvement. And they'll keep coming until the poverty, crime, corruption, disease, etc., in their homelands are fixed. And our foreign policy should include some humanitarian efforts to fix them. Because, as I said, they'll keep coming.

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#97

Post by Addie » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:35 pm

That they will, Forti, keep coming somewhere. I read yesterday that four million Venezuelans have migrated all over South America already and that figure is expected to double.

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#98

Post by PaulG » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:13 pm

Off Topic
According to Wikipedia, the best selling Japanese pop song, Sukiyaki was written by a man coming back from a protest about the US / Japan treaty in 1961.


Wikipedia wrote:"Ue o Muite Arukō" was written by lyricist Rokusuke Ei and composer Hachidai Nakamura. Ei wrote the lyrics while walking home from a Japanese student demonstration protesting against a continued US Army presence, expressing his frustration at the failed efforts.

The lyrics tell the story of a man who looks up and whistles while he is walking so that his tears will not fall. The verses of the song describe his memories and feelings. Rokusuke Ei wrote this song while coming back from a protest against the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan and feeling dejected about the failure of the protest movement, but the lyrics were rendered purposefully generic so that they might refer to any lost love.

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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#99

Post by MN-Skeptic » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:24 pm

PaulG wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:13 pm
Off Topic
According to Wikipedia, the best selling Japanese pop song, Sukiyaki was written by a man coming back from a protest about the US / Japan treaty in 1961.
Off Topic
Growing up, my older sister had a Japanese pen pal. Her pen pal sent her the Japanese 45rpm of this song when it was so popular. I always loved it.
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Re: Trump’s foreign policy has devolved into chaos

#100

Post by Orlylicious » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:01 am

So Donald is going to meet Kim at the DMZ. First president to walk into NK, and a ridulous publicity stunt. There's a reason no president has gone. What an unfit dotus. CNN is covering live.

Any chance North Korea will keep him there and not let him out? That would be cool. :lol:


ETA: Meeting at the DMV would have been way funner, but meant DMZ :oops:
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