DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#351

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:58 am

TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:57 am
ACOSTA RESIGNS.
Ninja'ed!

That was quick.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#352

Post by TexasFilly » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:02 am

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:58 am
TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:57 am
ACOSTA RESIGNS.
Ninja'ed!

That was quick.
Andrew Napalitano nailed it yesterday on "Fox & Friends." Helps to have inside information from the White House.
I love the poorly educated!!!

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#353

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:09 am

TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:02 am
Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:58 am
TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:57 am
ACOSTA RESIGNS.
Ninja'ed!

That was quick.
Andrew Napalitano nailed it yesterday on "Fox & Friends." Helps to have inside information from the White House.
I wuz jest a thinkin' the same thang!!
“A black woman can invent something for the benefit of humankind.” -Bessie Blount-Griffin, physical therapist, inventor of devices for disabled WWII veterans, and forensic scientist.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#354

Post by RoadScholar » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:10 am

Res Ipsa, I am pretty sure of one thing if Epstein and his cohorts go down for sexual predation of minors, whether Democrats, Republicans, or neither:

None of them will be women.

So let the chips fall where they may. I personally am sick to death of rich male perverts using their power and influence to do nasty illegal stuff hundreds (maybe thousands?) of times that some poor immature lovelorn 19-year-old would go to prison for doing once. :madguy:
The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#355

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:25 am

RoadScholar wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:10 am
Res Ipsa, I am pretty sure of one thing if Epstein and his cohorts go down for sexual predation of minors, whether Democrats, Republicans, or neither:

None of them will be women.
Ghislaine Maxwell? There are also three employees who pimped for him mentioned in the SDNY indictment: Employees-1 through 3.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/0 ... -girls-sex

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#356

Post by voxpopuluxe » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:26 am

Addie wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:45 am
New York Mag: Real Hedge-Fund Managers Have Some Thoughts on What Epstein Was Actually Doing
Given this puzzling set of data points, the hedge-fund managers we spoke to leaned toward the theory that Epstein was running a blackmail scheme under the cover of a hedge fund.
Uh, no shit? The first time I learned about Epstein—maybe it was that Vicky Ward piece for VF; maybe it was during his first arrest?—I thought his whole shtick screamed money launderer/blackmailer/trafficker/grifter. It's hard to believe that it wasn't even more obvious to people more knowledgable and/or experienced than I was. (And I mean, in part thanks to Ward we now know that it was obvious. It's just that there was just a sort of general tacit agreement to look away and not to ask too many questions.)

Getting heavy Gatsby vibes from this story of a mysterious charismatic self-made billionaire whose parties everyone wanted to attend, but it's a contemporary Gatsby, a metaphor for an America even more violent, corrupt, and misogynist than the original.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#357

Post by Slim Cognito » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:28 am

If you're a John Lithgow fan (yes, please) he's got a book of trump-inspired poetry coming out this fall. He wrote this one about Acosta's Epstein deal last winter, but with recent events, he's giving us a preview,presented by The new Yorker.

He's pretty good.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#358

Post by RoadScholar » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:36 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:25 am
RoadScholar wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:10 am
Res Ipsa, I am pretty sure of one thing if Epstein and his cohorts go down for sexual predation of minors, whether Democrats, Republicans, or neither:

None of them will be women.
Ghislaine Maxwell? There are also three employees who pimped for him mentioned in the SDNY indictment: Employees-1 through 3.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/0 ... -girls-sex
Interesting. But they didn't participate in the acts, they were criminally-culpable accomplices, yes?
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#359

Post by Res Ipsa » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:44 am

RoadScholar wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:10 am
Res Ipsa, I am pretty sure of one thing if Epstein and his cohorts go down for sexual predation of minors, whether Democrats, Republicans, or neither:

None of them will be women.
Road, what I'm interested in knowing is who are these "cohorts" involved in sexual predation of minors. Other than 'rich guy assocated with a lot of influential people' what is it - what FACTS - make you believe that Epstein engaged with others in the sexual predation of minors?
So let the chips fall where they may. I personally am sick to death of rich male perverts using their power and influence to do nasty illegal stuff hundreds (maybe thousands?) of times that some poor immature lovelorn 19-year-old would go to prison for doing once. :madguy:
Okay, you are "sick to death of rich male perverts" engaging in unlawful sexual conduct with minors. Can you provide the list of these rich male perverts along with perhaps some reference to the factual basis of the claim that they have done so?

This is the precise sort of fact-free belief that fed the Pizzagate nonsense. That guy who showed up in the pizza shop with a rifle was pretty sure about what he knew - along with the many others who are certain that the Clinton campaign was involved in sexual trafficking of minors.

Distinguish your belief from Pizzagate and point me in the direction of the facts which have made you "sick to death" with how often it happens.
Thanks pal.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#360

Post by Res Ipsa » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:47 am

RoadScholar wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:36 am

Interesting. But they didn't participate in the acts, they were criminally-culpable accomplices, yes?
Have you read the Epstein indictment?

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... tment.html

What they are alleged to have done is pretty clear.

Also, Epstein's pattern - and sexual predators tend to have pretty rigid patterns - doesn't involve other people or sex parties, or anything like that. It's pretty consistent that he seeks out young girls for massage sessions that only involve him.

Can anyone me understand, by something other than randomly going on about "rich perverts", the basis for the belief that this indictment will somehow lead to any number of other people being found to have engaged in unlawful sexual conduct with minors?
Thanks pal.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#361

Post by TexasFilly » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:50 am

I love the poorly educated!!!

I believe Anita Hill! I believe Dr. Ford!

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#362

Post by Reality Check » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:52 am

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:49 am
Dersh writes open letter to Pulitzer Prize Committee: Don't award anything to Julie Brown.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1400 ... -fake-news
:snippity:
Maybe it has happened but I can never recall someone campaigning against a reporter winning a Pulitzer. What a bitter old perv Dershowitz is. He probably just helped her win. :roll:
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#363

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:53 am

Res, the CDs recovered at Epstein's New York house may be of interest. At this point we don't know if there are any other rich sick perverts, except that a few of the girls who were raped said Epstein passed them around.

On the other hand, Ghislaine Maxwell and 3 unnamed other individuals allegedly pimped for him and if that is true, they were clearly engaged in the human trafficking.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#364

Post by Maybenaut » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:11 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:53 am
Res, the CDs recovered at Epstein's New York house may be of interest. At this point we don't know if there are any other rich sick perverts, except that a few of the girls who were raped said Epstein passed them around.

On the other hand, Ghislaine Maxwell and 3 unnamed other individuals allegedly pimped for him and if that is true, they were clearly engaged in the human trafficking.
There were named co-conspirators (all -- or maybe all -- women) in the Florida non-prosecution agreement: Sarah Kellen, Adriana Ross, Lesley Groff, and Nadia Marchinkova. I don't know who any of these people are. They may actually be victims, given that he is alleged to have first victimized, then convinced his victims to recruit for him.

I'm not sure I buy the he's-a-hedge-fund-manager-with-no-hedge-so-he-must-be-blackmailing-people argument, noted here and here. But the nymag article quotes a victim:
nymag wrote:If the blackmail theory sounds far-fetched, it’s worth keeping in mind that it was also floated by one of Epstein’s victims, Virginia Roberts Giuffre. “Epstein … also got girls for Epstein’s friends and acquaintances. Epstein specifically told me that the reason for him doing this was so that they would ‘owe him,’ they would ‘be in his pocket,’ and he would ‘have something on them,’” she said in a court affidavit, according to the investigative series in the Miami Herald that brought the case back to the public’s attention late last year.

In the 2015 filing, Giuffre claimed that Epstein “debriefed her” after she was forced into sexual encounters so that he could possess “intimate and potentially embarrassing information” to blackmail friends into parking their money with him. She also said photographic and video evidence existed — an assertion that looms especially large now that federal investigators have found a trove of images in Epstein’s home safe.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#365

Post by listeme » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:15 am

I mean, the wikipedia article on Epstein has links to articles and claims (of girls being passed around and so on) going back a few years, while the Pizzagate article is about how it's a conspiracy theory.

I'm happy to be skeptical, it's one of my core characteristics, but I'm not sure equating Epstein stories and Pizzagate idiocy is fair or logical. But you do you.

Edit to add: responding to res.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#366

Post by RoadScholar » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:16 am

Yes, innocent until proven guilty. Yes, I am engaging in inductive speculation without proof.

But I've been around the block enough times to know for a goddamn fact that some (not all) rich, powerful men get away with nasty, illegal shit. This sounds like more of it. Who specifically did exactly what? No, we can't say. Yet. But my basis for believing some nasty stuff went down is based on more reliable data points than the Pizzagate morons had, that much is true.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#367

Post by ZekeB » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:17 am

TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:57 am
ACOSTA RESIGNS.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#368

Post by voxpopuluxe » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:36 am

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:44 am
This is the precise sort of fact-free belief that fed the Pizzagate nonsense. That guy who showed up in the pizza shop with a rifle was pretty sure about what he knew - along with the many others who are certain that the Clinton campaign was involved in sexual trafficking of minors.
Well, I'm pretty sure that Comet Ping Pong, unlike Epstein, never faced a decade of previous allegations, nor had a widely known reputation for predatory behavior, nor a previous arrest.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#369

Post by Notorial Dissent » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:39 am

Slim Cognito wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:28 am
If you're a John Lithgow fan (yes, please) he's got a book of trump-inspired poetry coming out this fall. He wrote this one about Acosta's Epstein deal last winter, but with recent events, he's giving us a preview,presented by The new Yorker.

He's pretty good.

Lithgow is delightful, I 'm looking forward to the book coming out.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#370

Post by jmj » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:34 pm

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:47 am
Can anyone me understand, by something other than randomly going on about "rich perverts", the basis for the belief that this indictment will somehow lead to any number of other people being found to have engaged in unlawful sexual conduct with minors?
See Maybenaut's article quote above.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#371

Post by Kendra » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:47 pm

Thread:

Yesterday, Acosta claimed his office intervened in the Epstein case only when they realized Epstein wouldn't receive jail time for the pending Florida charges.

The Palm Beach State Attorney has refuted that claim. Also, that's just not how things work.
Oh, and a copy of his NPA agreement: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov ... 49.6.1.pdf

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#372

Post by Res Ipsa » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:11 pm

voxpopuluxe wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:36 am


Well, I'm pretty sure that Comet Ping Pong, unlike Epstein, never faced a decade of previous allegations, nor had a widely known reputation for predatory behavior, nor a previous arrest.
And I'm pretty sure that Epstein was engaged in unlawful sexual contact with underage girls. But what Epstein did is not my question.

I think I'll ask again - what is the factual basis for what appears to be a commonly held and a widespread belief of a "ring" of other pedophiles than Epstein?

And, no, I don't mean the collection of his employees and other victims who acted as procurers for him.
Thanks pal.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#373

Post by Res Ipsa » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:13 pm

jmj wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:34 pm

See Maybenaut's article quote above.
I saw it. Other than the speculation in the article, this is Giuffre's most recently filed civil complaint against Dershowitz for defamation:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov ... .1.0_1.pdf

I've skimmed through it, and will read it again, because I missed the part about the ring of other pedophiles. If someone else catches it before I had time to go over it again, let me know what page.
Thanks pal.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#374

Post by Maybenaut » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:22 pm

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:13 pm
jmj wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:34 pm

See Maybenaut's article quote above.
I saw it. Other than the speculation in the article, this is Giuffre's most recently filed civil complaint against Dershowitz for defamation:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov ... .1.0_1.pdf

I've skimmed through it, and will read it again, because I missed the part about the ring of other pedophiles. If someone else catches it before I had time to go over it again, let me know what page.
I think it’s a valid question, res ipsa.

ETA: She does mention “and others” as it relates to sexual abuse, but doesn’t specify, and doesn’t talk about any blackmail scheme.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#375

Post by voxpopuluxe » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:52 pm

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:11 pm
voxpopuluxe wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:36 am


Well, I'm pretty sure that Comet Ping Pong, unlike Epstein, never faced a decade of previous allegations, nor had a widely known reputation for predatory behavior, nor a previous arrest.
And I'm pretty sure that Epstein was engaged in unlawful sexual contact with underage girls. But what Epstein did is not my question.

I think I'll ask again - what is the factual basis for what appears to be a commonly held and a widespread belief of a "ring" of other pedophiles than Epstein?

And, no, I don't mean the collection of his employees and other victims who acted as procurers for him.
You seem weirdly invested in trying to disprove beyond a shadow of a doubt something that I haven't even seen a lot of people claiming. What I'm seeing are suspicions—and "claim" may be too strong a word here—that a career predator made his mysterious "billions" in part by blackmailing other predators. And there certainly seems to be a good deal of circumstantial evidence to suggest that there are some grounds for this suspicion. The existence of what may be records or recordings of Epstein or his associates doesn't make that suspicion any less credible, nor does what we know about the behavior of powerful men. But beyond that, unless you have more intimate knowledge of these affairs than I, neither of us knows definitively exactly what were the connections between Epstein and his associates/partners/clients. It's just that some of us are nodding and conceding that in this instance it is possible, maybe even likely that Epstein and his associates trafficked young and underage women to other men and you appear to have decided that such a thing could not possibly have happened. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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