2020 Census Citizenship question

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RTH10260
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#251

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:09 am

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:08 am
Given Trump's tweet, doesn't it appear that the order came from the Offal Office:

"What?! Those lousy DOj lawyers couldn't get it done?! Fire them! Fire them all!! Put in a new team and tell them to get the job done, pronto!"

"But, but, Mr. President …"

"No, no arguments, fire every one of them, they're useless. I need great people working for me. Now I'm going to take a dump and watch Fix & Friends."

I think some earlier comments suggested or implied that lawyers were trying to withdraw for ethical reasons, such ss difficulty with being asked to misbehave. But this – to my uninformed nose – has the stench of Trump on it.
:yeah: The lead attorney and a couple of others dropping out for ethical reasons would be believable, but replacing the whole team has the stench of The Great Dictator.

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Dolly
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#252

Post by Dolly » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:31 pm

Second judge rejects Justice Department request to change census lawyers

A federal judge on Wednesday rejected the Department of Justice's bid to swap attorneys working on a case involving the census citizenship question, the second judge to do so in as many days.

Judge George Hazel wrote that he agrees with the other judge's "well-reasoned order" rejecting the Trump administration's proposed change in legal teams, saying "that a shift in counsel at this late stage may be disruptive to an already complicated and expedited case."

Hazel, an Obama appointee, said that he would ultimately be open to allowing the DOJ lawyers to leave the case and ruled in such a way that will allow the request to be made again. However, he added, "under the unique circumstances of this request, more specific assurances will first need to be provided."

"As a practical matter, the court cannot fathom how it would be possible, at this juncture, for a wholesale change in defendants’ representation not to have some impact on the orderly resolution of these proceedings unless defendants provide assurance of an orderly transition between the withdrawing attorneys and new counsel," the judge wrote.
.................
Hazel is currently weighing whether there was a discriminatory intent behind the question's addition to the 2020 census, a different legal matter than the one the Supreme Court addressed in their ruling on the question.

https://thehill.com/regulation/452502-s ... us-lawyers
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Slim Cognito
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#253

Post by Slim Cognito » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:54 am

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... d_nn_tw_ma
Trump expected to order citizenship question added to the census
So what happens if I refuse to answer (only) the citizenship question vs taking a big black marker and *redacting* it?
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neonzx
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#254

Post by neonzx » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:59 am

Slim Cognito wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:54 am
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... d_nn_tw_ma
Trump expected to order citizenship question added to the census
So what happens if I refuse to answer (only) the citizenship question vs taking a big black marker and *redacting* it?
I posed that same question here a few days ago. Upon further research, I found they can fine individuals $100 for refusing to complete the census ($500 if you provide false information).

If I get a census form that asks me that question, I will strike it out (so that they know I didn't miss the question) and leave blank. And I'll pay the $100 if it comes to that.
To which Trump replied, Fuck the law. I don't give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#255

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:28 am

neonzx wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:59 am
Slim Cognito wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:54 am
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... d_nn_tw_ma
Trump expected to order citizenship question added to the census
So what happens if I refuse to answer (only) the citizenship question vs taking a big black marker and *redacting* it?
I posed that same question here a few days ago. Upon further research, I found they can fine individuals $100 for refusing to complete the census ($500 if you provide false information).

If I get a census form that asks me that question, I will strike it out (so that they know I didn't miss the question) and leave blank. And I'll pay the $100 if it comes to that.
:thumbs: Gladly would I pay the fine AND set up a gofundme account for others who want to do so. :smoking:
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Slim Cognito
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#256

Post by Slim Cognito » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:49 am

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:28 am
neonzx wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:59 am
Slim Cognito wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:54 am
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... d_nn_tw_ma



So what happens if I refuse to answer (only) the citizenship question vs taking a big black marker and *redacting* it?
I posed that same question here a few days ago. Upon further research, I found they can fine individuals $100 for refusing to complete the census ($500 if you provide false information).

If I get a census form that asks me that question, I will strike it out (so that they know I didn't miss the question) and leave blank. And I'll pay the $100 if it comes to that.
:thumbs: Gladly would I pay the fine AND set up a gofundme account for others who want to do so. :smoking:
I'm in.
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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#257

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:19 am

"The Chief Justice has made his decision; let him enforce it."

-Andrew Jackson

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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#258

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:25 am

Did Sarah Sanders say something about the citizenship question being on every census until Obama? I'm suddenly seeing that in comments on my fb feed.

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much ado
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#259

Post by much ado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:40 am

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:25 am
Did Sarah Sanders say something about the citizenship question being on every census until Obama? I'm suddenly seeing that in comments on my fb feed.
I saw a published article on it. They said that the question was on the longer census form that was used to get more census detail from some small fraction of the population. I'll see if I can find it.

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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#260

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:43 am

much ado wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:40 am
Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:25 am
Did Sarah Sanders say something about the citizenship question being on every census until Obama? I'm suddenly seeing that in comments on my fb feed.
I saw a published article on it. They said that the question was on the longer census form that was used to get more census detail from some small fraction of the population. I'll see if I can find it.

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much ado
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#261

Post by much ado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:44 am

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:25 am
Did Sarah Sanders say something about the citizenship question being on every census until Obama? I'm suddenly seeing that in comments on my fb feed.
Here's a WP article on Conway talking about it. (I saw something else.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 295d08906f

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bob
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#262

Post by bob » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:13 pm

neonzx wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:59 am
I found they can fine individuals $100 for refusing to complete the census
Methinks there would be standing to challenge the question as illegally asked. :think:
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#263

Post by Volkonski » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:34 pm

:o
Evan McMurry

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EXCLUSIVE: Pres. Trump is expected to announce he is backing down from his effort to include a citizenship question on the 2020 census, and will instead instruct the Commerce Department to get the data through other means, sources tell @ABC News.
https://t.co/yZHn8Q50eU
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Dan1100
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#264

Post by Dan1100 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:39 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:34 pm
:o
Evan McMurry

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EXCLUSIVE: Pres. Trump is expected to announce he is backing down from his effort to include a citizenship question on the 2020 census, and will instead instruct the Commerce Department to get the data through other means, sources tell @ABC News.
https://t.co/yZHn8Q50eU
The Great and Powerful Cheeto caves again, as predicted.
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p1099036
"Devin Nunes is having a cow over this."

-George Takei

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much ado
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#265

Post by much ado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:52 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:39 pm
Volkonski wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:34 pm
:o
Evan McMurry

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EXCLUSIVE: Pres. Trump is expected to announce he is backing down from his effort to include a citizenship question on the 2020 census, and will instead instruct the Commerce Department to get the data through other means, sources tell @ABC News.
https://t.co/yZHn8Q50eU
The Great and Powerful Cheeto caves again, as predicted.
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p1099036
So much winning! I am so tired of winning!!! :lol:

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Chilidog
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#266

Post by Chilidog » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:23 pm

So.

The census is covered in article 1, section 2 of the USC.

What parts of the census act or any other law gives the President the authority to change it via executive order?

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Dolly
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#267

Post by Dolly » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:32 pm

Off Topic
Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:25 am
Did Sarah Sanders say something about the citizenship question being on every census until Obama? I'm suddenly seeing that in comments on my fb feed.
related crap from nut jobs
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Chilidog
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#268

Post by Chilidog » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:36 pm

Yeah that's the big talking point on Disqus

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Dan1100
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#269

Post by Dan1100 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:39 pm

Looks like it caused so many Magabilly heads to explode that it broke Twitter.
"Devin Nunes is having a cow over this."

-George Takei

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Kendra
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#270

Post by Kendra » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:41 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:39 pm
Looks like it caused so many Magabilly heads to explode that it broke Twitter.
I thought was Donald that broke it.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#271

Post by much ado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:44 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:39 pm
Looks like it caused so many Magabilly heads to explode that it broke Twitter.
Hah. Hah. Hah. So f'n sad!

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#272

Post by Somerset » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:49 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:39 pm
Volkonski wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:34 pm
:o
Evan McMurry

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EXCLUSIVE: Pres. Trump is expected to announce he is backing down from his effort to include a citizenship question on the 2020 census, and will instead instruct the Commerce Department to get the data through other means, sources tell @ABC News.
https://t.co/yZHn8Q50eU
The Great and Powerful Cheeto caves again, as predicted.
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p1099036
I'm happy about this, but I wonder why he caved. It didn't look like he needed to.

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Notorial Dissent
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#273

Post by Notorial Dissent » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:20 pm

Somerset wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:49 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:39 pm
Volkonski wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:34 pm
:o


https://t.co/yZHn8Q50eU
The Great and Powerful Cheeto caves again, as predicted.
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p1099036
I'm happy about this, but I wonder why he caved. It didn't look like he needed to.
Some other bright and shiny grabbed his attention. When you have the attention span[and IQ] of a spavened gnat it doesn't take much.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Dan1100
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#274

Post by Dan1100 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:24 pm

Somerset wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:49 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:39 pm
Volkonski wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:34 pm
:o


https://t.co/yZHn8Q50eU
The Great and Powerful Cheeto caves again, as predicted.
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p1099036
I'm happy about this, but I wonder why he caved. It didn't look like he needed to.

Deep down, Trump is a wuss*.
It would have been a direct confrontation with the District Courts who have Supreme Court approved injunctions in place. I think there would have been quite a few resignations. They would have thrown Wilbur Ross in jail for contempt and maybe even cited the Great and Powerful Cheeto himself for criminal contempt. Not a good context for the Whitehouse to see if the DOJ is right about the whole "President can't be charged with a crime" thing.

**edited
"Devin Nunes is having a cow over this."

-George Takei

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much ado
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#275

Post by much ado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:26 pm

Somerset wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:49 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:39 pm
Volkonski wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:34 pm
:o


https://t.co/yZHn8Q50eU
The Great and Powerful Cheeto caves again, as predicted.
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p1099036
I'm happy about this, but I wonder why he caved. It didn't look like he needed to.
My entirely speculative IANAL guess, is that someone in the administration got it through to him that pursuing this would lead to discovery which would eventually let the entire world know that the reason for getting this into the census questionnaire was entirely corrupt. It was, from the beginning, an effort to disenfranchise areas that have illegal immigrant populations, e.g., California and other liberal-leaning areas. There was no other reason, in spite of their protestations to the contrary. That's just my guess. I hope the blow back from his base is withering.

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