National Emergency on Border Wall

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neonzx
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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#26

Post by neonzx » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:48 pm

Another national emergency? Omlet bar ran out of cheese?
To which Trump replied, Fuck the law. I don't give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money.

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Dan1100
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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#27

Post by Dan1100 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:20 pm

https://twitter.com/meridithmcgraw/stat ... 1343540225
Meridith McGraw
‏Verified account @meridithmcgraw
12m12 minutes ago

Just in: Acting Sec of Defense Shanahan just told reporters he hasn’t determined if there is a military necessity for a border wall or how much money Defense will even spend. Shanahan said he hasn’t yet spoken to President Trump.
:?
"Devin Nunes is having a cow over this."

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#28

Post by much ado » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:24 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:20 pm
https://twitter.com/meridithmcgraw/stat ... 1343540225
Meridith McGraw
‏Verified account @meridithmcgraw
12m12 minutes ago

Just in: Acting Sec of Defense Shanahan just told reporters he hasn’t determined if there is a military necessity for a border wall or how much money Defense will even spend. Shanahan said he hasn’t yet spoken to President Trump.
:?
Wow! The Executive Branch really has its act together. :shock:

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#29

Post by SLQ » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:24 pm

For some reason, that photo of Individual-1 reminds me of Humpty Dumpty:
Image
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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#30

Post by Dan1100 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:28 pm

much ado wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:24 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:20 pm
https://twitter.com/meridithmcgraw/stat ... 1343540225
Meridith McGraw
‏Verified account @meridithmcgraw
12m12 minutes ago

Just in: Acting Sec of Defense Shanahan just told reporters he hasn’t determined if there is a military necessity for a border wall or how much money Defense will even spend. Shanahan said he hasn’t yet spoken to President Trump.
:?
Wow! The Executive Branch really has its act together. :shock:
"If this had been an actual emergency, the Attention Signal you just heard would have been followed by official information, news, or instructions."
"Devin Nunes is having a cow over this."

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#31

Post by neonzx » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:29 pm

much ado wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:24 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:20 pm
https://twitter.com/meridithmcgraw/stat ... 1343540225
Meridith McGraw
‏Verified account @meridithmcgraw
12m12 minutes ago

Just in: Acting Sec of Defense Shanahan just told reporters he hasn’t determined if there is a military necessity for a border wall or how much money Defense will even spend. Shanahan said he hasn’t yet spoken to President Trump.
:?
Wow! The Executive Branch really has its act together. :shock:
Priorities, DONchaknow?
Image
To which Trump replied, Fuck the law. I don't give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money.

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#32

Post by Volkonski » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:42 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:20 pm
https://twitter.com/meridithmcgraw/stat ... 1343540225
Meridith McGraw
‏Verified account @meridithmcgraw
12m12 minutes ago

Just in: Acting Sec of Defense Shanahan just told reporters he hasn’t determined if there is a military necessity for a border wall or how much money Defense will even spend. Shanahan said he hasn’t yet spoken to President Trump.
:?
Trump issued an emergency declaration that would redirect a substantial sum of money in the Pentagon's budget without talking to the Secretary of Defense? :shock:

:cussing:
Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#33

Post by neonzx » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:46 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:42 pm
Trump issued an emergency declaration that would redirect a substantial sum of money in the Pentagon's budget without talking to the Secretary of Defense? :shock:

:cussing:
That's because Shanahan is just 'acting', like the movies. Trump knows he'll act as he tells him to act.
To which Trump replied, Fuck the law. I don't give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money.

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#34

Post by Volkonski » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:49 pm

Daniel Dale

Verified account

@ddale8
27m27 minutes ago
More Daniel Dale Retweeted Idrees Ali
A wall is "very important for the military because of the drugs that pour in," Trump said in his emergency-announcing speech. He also said "some of the generals think that this is more important" than what they'd otherwise spend the money on.
We can add this to Trump's list of lies.
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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#35

Post by Orlylicious » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:03 pm

This "emergency" will go on for a decade even with 10,000 workers. WaPo did this piece in January, on top of everything else it's just not realistic. How much patience will the Trumpers have?
Build the wall? It could take at least 10 years, even with 10,000 workers
***
If Trump’s border wall gets funding, construction would not begin for at least six months — and likely longer, Zarenski said.

Land along the border still needs to be acquired.

Soil and environmental studies need to be done.

The first thing a construction firm would build is not a wall but a road. A roadway running parallel to the border would be needed to allow the backhoes, dumptrucks and cement trucks to reach the remote construction sites.

Finding enough skilled workers in the current tight labor market also would be difficult.

And the project’s massive price tag comes with its own constraints. The construction industry’s rule of thumb, Zarenski said, is it takes 5,000 to 6,000 workers a year to build $1 billion worth of construction. But you cannot fit them all on one job site. For a project like the border wall, you would want to have dozens of different sites going at once.

Zarenski calculated how fast the work could go — assuming 10,000 workers spread equally over 50 sites. Then, they could build 37 feet of border wall each workday at each site — about 1,850 feet each workday across all the sites.

Even if these huge crews broke ground today, they would finish just 86 miles of border wall by year’s end. By Election Day 2020, 161 miles of border wall would be done. It would take 11 years to reach 1,000 miles. And that is assuming 10,000 workers going all at once, five days a week.

Cut that to 5,000 workers and a 1,000-mile long wall would take more than 20 years, Zarenski said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... 981c9f3213
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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#36

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:54 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:36 pm
J.D. Durkin @jiveDurkey

just in — a source at the Trump International Golf Club in Palm Beach just texted me this photo taken a short time ago.

omelette bar:
Image
Omelettes are now precedential emergency rations :?: :shock:

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#37

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:57 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:20 pm
https://twitter.com/meridithmcgraw/stat ... 1343540225
Meridith McGraw
‏Verified account @meridithmcgraw
12m12 minutes ago

Just in: Acting Sec of Defense Shanahan just told reporters he hasn’t determined if there is a military necessity for a border wall or how much money Defense will even spend. Shanahan said he hasn’t yet spoken to President Trump.
:?
Does the Army Corps of Engineers even have the capacity to run such a project without abandoning all those waterways and dams they need to keep an eye on?

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#38

Post by Sam the Centipede » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:44 pm

SLQ wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:24 pm
For some reason, that photo of Individual-1 reminds me of Humpty Dumpty:
Image
You're thinking of the nursery rhyme that your great-great-grandchildren will recite to their little kids:
    Dumpty Trumpty wanted a wall
    Dumpty Trumpty hit a golf ball
    All Nancy's women and all Nancy's men
    Stuck it to Trumpty again and again

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#39

Post by Dolly » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:41 am

pipistrelle wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:01 am
He also talked about the 2020 election in front of the presidential seal. It may not be wrong but it feels wrong . . . and he made it clear this "declaration" has something to do with the election.
That was one of the things I noticed that in this article. (Sorry, if this is a duplicate. I scanned the other posts rather quickly and may have missed it. Also having trouble watching videos (my computer or internet connection sux)
Trump declares national emergency at border
...............
“I could do the wall over a long period of time. I didn’t need to do this, but I’d rather do it much faster,” Trump said, a concession his critics seized upon to argue an emergency does not exist on the southern border.
............
Trump also claimed “I’ve already done a lot of wall for the election — 2020,” even existing construction has repaired and replaced existing barriers instead of building new ones.
<BIG SNIP>
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... for-border
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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#40

Post by Dolly » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:45 am

Way to much in this article to snip. This is just the beginning.
Dems ready aggressive response to Trump emergency order, as GOP splinters

House Democrats are vowing an aggressive response to President Trump's emergency declaration at the southern border, mulling ways to block his go-it-alone approach with legislation, legal action, or both.

Yet party leaders are in no immediate rush to show their hand, instead hoping to keep the focus on growing GOP divisions while pressuring more Republicans to oppose the president's unilateral power play.

Heading into the weeklong Presidents Day recess, the office of Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) is distributing a spreadsheet to members logging a host of wide-ranging local projects potentially threatened by Trump’s effort to shift funds from military construction coffers to the border wall.

The list — nearly 400 projects long — features a number of ventures in GOP districts. It includes maintenance facilities for F-35 stealth fighters at Eielson Air Force Base outside Fairbanks, Alaska; the operation of a middle school at Fort Campbell, Ky.; and funds to replace a training maze at Fort Bragg, N.C.

“We have to smoke out as many Republicans as possible by making the case that projects in their backyard are in jeopardy and will likely be raided to help pay for Trump’s ineffective and politically motivated wall,” said a senior Democratic aide.

Key congressional Republicans, meanwhile, don’t need any nudge from Democrats. They’re already tearing themselves apart over Trump’s declaration. <BIG SNIP>
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4302 ... -splinters
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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#41

Post by Foggy » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:27 am

Just my personal opinion:

Democrats can either say "This is totally unconstitutional and an illegal power grab" OR they can say "Fine. We'll do the same thing with regard to the national gun violence emergency, the climate change emergency, and so forth."

WE CAN'T SAY BOTH.

If we really believe it's an unconstitutional power grab, which I firmly do believe, then we can't say we'll do it too also. Somebody has to stand up for the Constitution.
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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#42

Post by neonzx » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:46 am

Foggy wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:27 am
Just my personal opinion:

Democrats can either say "This is totally unconstitutional and an illegal power grab" OR they can say "Fine. We'll do the same thing with regard to the national gun violence emergency, the climate change emergency, and so forth."

WE CAN'T SAY BOTH.

If we really believe it's an unconstitutional power grab, which I firmly do believe, then we can't say we'll do it too also. Somebody has to stand up for the Constitution.
I think floating the idea of a future Democratic president invoking a 'national emergency' to address (insert whatever important issue) is being done as a rational slippery-slope argument to make Republicans legislators, as well as the general public, realize how radical Trump's action is.
To which Trump replied, Fuck the law. I don't give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money.

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#43

Post by RTH10260 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:51 am

Dolly wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:41 am
pipistrelle wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:01 am
He also talked about the 2020 election in front of the presidential seal. It may not be wrong but it feels wrong . . . and he made it clear this "declaration" has something to do with the election.
That was one of the things I noticed that in this article. (Sorry, if this is a duplicate. I scanned the other posts rather quickly and may have missed it. Also having trouble watching videos (my computer or internet connection sux)
Trump declares national emergency at border
...............
“I could do the wall over a long period of time. I didn’t need to do this, but I’d rather do it much faster,” Trump said, a concession his critics seized upon to argue an emergency does not exist on the southern border.
............
Trump also claimed “I’ve already done a lot of wall for the election — 2020,” even existing construction has repaired and replaced existing barriers instead of building new ones.
<BIG SNIP>
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... for-border
Yeah - another lie - like previous presidents and administrations just left the border fence fall into delapidation. Since at least GWB the CPB have been fixing and enforcing the fence in yearly installments,

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#44

Post by Sam the Centipede » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:00 am

Democrats mentioning the hypothetical possibility of a future Democratic president having powers that would scare the Republicans is, I think, consistent with saying that misuse of emergency powers is unconstitutional. The Dems are not saying "hey! great! we'll do this too!" No, they're saying "are you sure, really sure, that you think this is a good idea in the longer term?"

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#45

Post by Grumpy Old Guy » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:13 am

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:00 am
Democrats mentioning the hypothetical possibility of a future Democratic president having powers that would scare the Republicans is, I think, consistent with saying that misuse of emergency powers is unconstitutional. The Dems are not saying "hey! great! we'll do this too!" No, they're saying "are you sure, really sure, that you think this is a good idea in the longer term?"

I am sure I saw a clip of Marco Rubio saying that a future president could declare climate change to be a national emergency..

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#46

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:07 pm

Dolly wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:45 am
Way to much in this article to snip. This is just the beginning.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4302 ... -splinters
This caught my attention.
Democrats, however, won’t sit idle long in launching their formal response. Reps. Joaquin Castro (D-Texas), the chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) are already drafting a resolution to block the declaration from taking effect. That proposal could arrive as early as next week, according to a second Democratic aide.

“We've got people flooding in to support this, which is great,” the aide said.

Among the early supporters is Rep. Steve Cohen (D-Tenn.), chairman of the Judiciary Committee’s subpanel on the Constitution. It’s unclear, however, if Democrats will rally around the Castro resolution or another proposal, or if they’ll move it through committees or bring it straight to the floor.

Passage by the House would create an enormous headache for McConnell. Although the Kentucky Republican said he supports Trump’s declaration, the National Emergencies Act requires that such a resolution is deemed privileged, guaranteeing a vote on the Senate floor, and highlighting GOP divisions with Trump.
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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#47

Post by Tarrant » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:13 pm

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:00 am
Democrats mentioning the hypothetical possibility of a future Democratic president having powers that would scare the Republicans is, I think, consistent with saying that misuse of emergency powers is unconstitutional. The Dems are not saying "hey! great! we'll do this too!" No, they're saying "are you sure, really sure, that you think this is a good idea in the longer term?"
I think they’re also trying to send a rather public message to the courts (particularly Roberts) that if they rule that this is OK, they’re opening an incredible can of worms that really cant be resealed. If the courts suddenly decide that this is a legitimate presidential power, then Democrats will almost *have* to use it or see everything they ever do undone by “emergency” declarations that they then can’t stop even when they have the Presidency because they won’t do the same and Congress won’t help.

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#48

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:17 pm

Grumpy Old Guy wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:13 am
Sam the Centipede wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:00 am
Democrats mentioning the hypothetical possibility of a future Democratic president having powers that would scare the Republicans is, I think, consistent with saying that misuse of emergency powers is unconstitutional. The Dems are not saying "hey! great! we'll do this too!" No, they're saying "are you sure, really sure, that you think this is a good idea in the longer term?"

I am sure I saw a clip of Marco Rubio saying that a future president could declare climate change to be a national emergency..
Did Marco quote an Old Testament verse?
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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#49

Post by Uninformed » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:40 pm

"Viewpoint: Why Trump may win his legal fight over border wall" :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47258779

Why Trump will win the wall fight" :
https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4 ... wall-fight

Is there something missing from his "analyses", or has Jonathan Turley got it right?

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Re: National Emergency on Border Wall

#50

Post by RTH10260 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:22 pm

My outsiders IANAL opinion: I think the courts may let the emergency delaration stand if Congress cannot stop it themselves. The procedure has been put into law, so they may see little need to intervene. A big mess when the Senate will not follow thru to override a veto. I am more in favour of courts looking at the deviation of appropriated funds and their relocation to dubious tasks, even when argued with a (not existent) emergency situation.

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