Question re: Trump ordering use of nukes against Iran (or anyone else)

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woodworker
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Question re: Trump ordering use of nukes against Iran (or anyone else)

#1

Post by woodworker » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:27 pm

What happens if Trump ordered the use of nukes: (a) would the military comply, (b) would the cabinet implement the 25th and (c)(1) would the House immediately impeach and (2) the Senate convict? Does Trump get shipped off to the Hague?

Also, international response???

All of this assumes that said use of nukes would be as the US being the first user in the conflict. Obviously, if someone else uses nukes first, we won't have to worry about short or long term effects of global warming, we will kill ourselves first.

The reasons I am pondering this more seriously now are his comments re: Afghanistan and his need, IMHO, to distract the masses from all the shit going elsewhere.
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Re: Question re: Trump ordering use of nukes against Iran (or anyone else)

#2

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:41 pm

woodworker wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:27 pm
What happens if Trump ordered the use of nukes: (a) would the military comply, (b) would the cabinet implement the 25th and (c)(1) would the House immediately impeach and (2) the Senate convict? Does Trump get shipped off to the Hague?

Also, international response???

All of this assumes that said use of nukes would be as the US being the first user in the conflict. Obviously, if someone else uses nukes first, we won't have to worry about short or long term effects of global warming, we will kill ourselves first.

The reasons I am pondering this more seriously now are his comments re: Afghanistan and his need, IMHO, to distract the masses from all the shit going elsewhere.
Outsiders view: except when the US gets attacked out of the blue (likely with nukes) and retaliates according to the existing automatism, it's the militaries decision as to the choice of waponry in a conflict. They would have to ask POTUS for the nuclear options (iirc even for small scale tactical stuff). As an afterthought, I now believe he intended to say Iran and got his countries mixed up when blathering at the press conference.

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Re: Question re: Trump ordering use of nukes against Iran (or anyone else)

#3

Post by bob » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:12 am

woodworker wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:27 pm
What happens if Trump ordered the use of nukes: (a) would the military comply, (b) would the cabinet implement the 25th and (c)(1) would the House immediately impeach and (2) the Senate convict? Does Trump get shipped off to the Hague?
Yes; no; yes; no; no.
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Re: Question re: Trump ordering use of nukes against Iran (or anyone else)

#4

Post by TexasFilly » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:56 am

woodworker wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:27 pm
What happens if Trump ordered the use of nukes: (a) would the military comply, (b) would the cabinet implement the 25th and (c)(1) would the House immediately impeach and (2) the Senate convict? Does Trump get shipped off to the Hague?

Yes,no,no,no,no.
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Re: Question re: Trump ordering use of nukes against Iran (or anyone else)

#5

Post by PaulG » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:32 am

woodworker wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:27 pm
What happens if Trump ordered the use of nukes: (a) would the military comply, (b) would the cabinet implement the 25th and (c)(1) would the House immediately impeach and (2) the Senate convict? Does Trump get shipped off to the Hague?
Maybe, God only knows, I hope so, I do have children, and i don't know what to tell my grandchildren (if I ever have them).

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Re: Question re: Trump ordering use of nukes against Iran (or anyone else)

#6

Post by Lani » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:13 am

He's been interested in using nuclear weapons since the 1980's. Sarah Kendzior documented it during the 2016 campaign. I tried to find her article on her website, but couldn't find it on my phone. I'll look again this weekend.
https://sarahkendzior.com/
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Re: Question re: Trump ordering use of nukes against Iran (or anyone else)

#7

Post by Slim Cognito » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:03 am

I get the feeling trump has mentioned nuking somebody somewhere more than once and "his" generals have managed to talked him down, so far. But the dementia is worsening (exacerbated by the malignant narcissism and the fear his taxes, trump organization/school records and/or confidants will eventually go public) and he's getting harder to control every day. Can you imagine the collective sphincter contraction at the Pentagon when he mentioned (out loud) wiping Afghanistan off the face of the earth?
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Re: Question re: Trump ordering use of nukes against Iran (or anyone else)

#8

Post by fierceredpanda » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:10 am

RTH10260 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:41 pm
Outsiders view: except when the US gets attacked out of the blue (likely with nukes) and retaliates according to the existing automatism, it's the militaries decision as to the choice of waponry in a conflict. They would have to ask POTUS for the nuclear options (iirc even for small scale tactical stuff). As an afterthought, I now believe he intended to say Iran and got his countries mixed up when blathering at the press conference.
That's not at all how the nuclear chain of command works. The "football" that accompanies the President everywhere, in addition to the "Gold Codes" and a secure communications link to the National Military Command Center (NMCC) at the Pentagon plus any alternate command centers required, also contains a document that used to be called the SIOP (Single Integrated Operations Plan). It contains a number of Major Attack Options, Limited Attack Options, and Selected Attack Options. It's basically the menu off of which the President can order nuclear destruction as he sees fit - targets, weapon selection, delivery, etc. There's a whole lot of people at the Pentagon and at STRATCOM in Omaha whose job is to assemble the MAOs, LAOs, and SAOs that go into that menu. (FWIW, I know all this from friends of mine who have actually worked on these issues for the DOD, but the Wikipedia page on the SIOP is actually pretty accurate and easy to understand.)

Once the President makes a decision, the whole process is designed to expeditiously carry out his command. The only verification that takes place is a verification that the President is who he says he is. That's required because it was set up under the assumption that the most likely reason to use nuclear weapons would be in response to a warning that the Soviets had launched ICBMs or SLBMs, the bombs were on the way, the clock was ticking, and it was essential to get our missiles out of their silos and planes off the ground before they were destroyed by the Soviet first strike. The timeline for that would have been 30 minutes at most from the initial warning by NORAD that launches were detected, and perhaps a whole lot less if the Soviets had parked missile subs near the coastal US. That's no time to have a debate about whether the President is doing the right thing. Every step in the process had a decision time of 5 minutes, and usually a whole lot less than that.

Years back, an Air Force major and Minuteman missile launch center officer (who has since become something of an outspoken advocate for reform on this issue, though his name eludes me at the moment) got booted when he made the perfectly obvious point that the whole nuclear chain of command was only concerned with confirming the President's identity while making no effort to ascertain whether the President is in command of his faculties. Here was this guy who would have to turn the launch key pointing out that he had no way of knowing if the order to launch was coming from a sane President or a raving lunatic who happened to be President. Everyone else who works in the area of nuclear weapons is subject to the Personnel Reliability Program and has their personal, mental, and psychological state carefully monitored to make sure crazy people don't have access to unfathomably destructive weapons, but the guy who makes the decision to actually use them could be batshit crazy and that doesn't matter. The Air Force gave him the heave ho, because that sort of logic has no place in the world of Dr. Strangelove.
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Re: Question re: Trump ordering use of nukes against Iran (or anyone else)

#9

Post by Dave at Sea » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:08 am

something.. something.. about.. the voters.. the electoral college.. the cabinet.. Congress.. all working to ensure a madman doesn't become President with the power to end 95% of life on earth...

How's that working out? :explode:

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