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2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

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raison de arizona
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#26

Post by raison de arizona »

X
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Lani
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#27

Post by Lani »

sad-cafe wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:39 pm I disagree that SB pulled out because she stumbled.

She has been off for a couple weeks now.

I think she put too much pressure on herself and had a mini-breakdown.

She was also the last active survivor of the sexual assault and maybe she had some PTSD
It recently came out that the FBI dropped the ball on its investigation and enabled the rapist doctor to continue to be the team doctor, assaulting over 300 gymnasts, including Biles. That has to hurt. Also, she has opened up about physical, mental and sexual abuse at the Karolyi training camp. Parents were not allowed to visit and there was no cell service.

A few days ago, her coach warned that some of her routines were too dangerous unless everything was 100% perfect, and he would stop her from doing those moves. Then she fell.

She is still the greatest of all time.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#28

Post by Liz »

Maybenaut wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:44 pm
Liz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:36 pm A GOAT no more... Greatest of all time don't quit and aren't afraid of losing.
What a horrible thing to say.
Not as horrible as saying 'What a horrible thing to say'

What's horrible? What's not true? Name another MVP that has quit on their team. Pressure is what defines the great ones.

I wonder if she will not do the individual competitions too... I think she should withdraw
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#29

Post by p0rtia »

Maybenaut wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:44 pm
Liz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:36 pm A GOAT no more... Greatest of all time don't quit and aren't afraid of losing.
What a horrible thing to say.
:yeahthat:
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#30

Post by scirreeve »

Liz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:42 pm
Maybenaut wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:44 pm
Liz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:36 pm A GOAT no more... Greatest of all time don't quit and aren't afraid of losing.
What a horrible thing to say.
Not as horrible as saying 'What a horrible thing to say'

What's horrible? What's not true? Name another MVP that has quit on their team. Pressure is what defines the great ones.

I wonder if she will not do the individual competitions too... I think she should withdraw
Worst take ever. My daughter was a gymnast and then the flyer on her HS cheer leading team for 4 years. Can seriously injure yourself if you lose confidence for whatever reason. Your take is so so wrong.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#31

Post by raison de arizona »

If someone twists their ankle, sympathy all around. If someone twists their mind, no sympathy.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#32

Post by Mrich »

Biles got lost in the air in the twisting turns of her vault. She recognized that she was not able to concentrate and was a danger to herself. If she had continued to compete, she could have seriously injured herself. Of course if that had happened, no one would question her withdrawing from the event.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#33

Post by sad-cafe »

agree
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#34

Post by Maybenaut »

Liz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:42 pm
Maybenaut wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:44 pm
Liz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:36 pm A GOAT no more... Greatest of all time don't quit and aren't afraid of losing.
What a horrible thing to say.
Not as horrible as saying 'What a horrible thing to say'

What's horrible? What's not true? Name another MVP that has quit on their team. Pressure is what defines the great ones.

I wonder if she will not do the individual competitions too... I think she should withdraw
Sorry, not sorry.

First of all, she didn’t quit on her team, she quit for her team. She was off her game, and she knew it. Had she competed, her team might have been off the podium entirely. Without her, they got silver. If you watch a replay you can hear her telling them that she’s worried she’d blow their chances at a medal, and they had all worked too hard their whole lives for that to happen. I think it took a lot of guts.

But the larger issue to me is the expectation that an athlete should endanger her physical and mental health when she doesn’t feel like she’s able to compete. The reason shouldn’t matter. If she withdrew from the team competition because of a physical injury, nobody would be saying anything. Her issue was mental health, but rather than seeing it as the real medical issue that it is, you apparently see it as a character flaw.

That’s horrible.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#35

Post by Estiveo »

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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#36

Post by qbawl »

Mrich wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:45 pm Biles got lost in the air in the twisting turns of her vault. She recognized that she was not able to concentrate and was a danger to herself. If she had continued to compete, she could have seriously injured herself. Of course if that had happened, no one would question her withdrawing from the event.
:yeahthat:
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#37

Post by Liz »

qbawl wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:18 am
Mrich wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:45 pm Biles got lost in the air in the twisting turns of her vault. She recognized that she was not able to concentrate and was a danger to herself. If she had continued to compete, she could have seriously injured herself. Of course if that had happened, no one would question her withdrawing from the event.
:yeahthat:
She wouldn't have had to even be seriously injured... just a little would have been enough...
She wasn't even good in the preliminaries. She stepped out on the Floor and she fell off the Beam.
“After the performance I did, I just didn’t want to go on,” she said. “I didn’t want to go out and do something stupid and get hurt."
Biles says she was afraid she would get hurt if she continued in a rattled state of mind... “I don’t trust myself as much anymore maybe it’s getting older."

Do you think she'll find herself, de-rattle, not be afraid of getting hurt and be all better in time for the individual all-around set for Thursday (July 29) or the apparatus finals that take place 1-3 August?
... She didn't get hurt and they all risk getting hurt during every routine ... yet still compete.
The "I got lost in the air" and the "I did it for the team" and the "I didn't want to cost us a medal" are excuses worthy of congressional Republican's.
She did cost the team a chance for the Gold... she seems happy with her Silver though.
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Remember how Kerri Strug won Gold for the Team when she was seriously hurt?
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#38

Post by tek »

Wow. I guess there are both sides here too..

With what I know today, I'm on the side that thinks Biles did the right thing.
Believing she just blithely decided to drop out implies that all she's been through so far has just been a charade.

But YMMV.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#39

Post by Lani »

Does winning Nationals with broken toes in both feet count? How about winning Worlds with a kidney stone?
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#40

Post by raison de arizona »

Lani wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:30 am Does winning Nationals with broken toes in both feet count? How about winning Worlds with a kidney stone?
No. She’s weak and worthless.

What a shame.

We need to end the stigma of mental health issues.

It’s not always something you can just push through.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#41

Post by Slim Cognito »

I'm guessing the hardest thing Biles ever did was make the very public decision to withdraw, knowing how people would attack her. Sure, it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#42

Post by filly »

Slim Cognito wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:54 am I'm guessing the hardest thing Biles ever did was make the very public decision to withdraw, knowing how people would attack her. Sure, it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.
Or breaks their neck and becomes a quadriplegic.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#43

Post by RVInit »

Maybenaut wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:59 pm
Liz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:42 pm
Maybenaut wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:44 pm

What a horrible thing to say.
Not as horrible as saying 'What a horrible thing to say'

What's horrible? What's not true? Name another MVP that has quit on their team. Pressure is what defines the great ones.

I wonder if she will not do the individual competitions too... I think she should withdraw
Sorry, not sorry.

First of all, she didn’t quit on her team, she quit for her team. She was off her game, and she knew it. Had she competed, her team might have been off the podium entirely. Without her, they got silver. If you watch a replay you can hear her telling them that she’s worried she’d blow their chances at a medal, and they had all worked too hard their whole lives for that to happen. I think it took a lot of guts.

But the larger issue to me is the expectation that an athlete should endanger her physical and mental health when she doesn’t feel like she’s able to compete. The reason shouldn’t matter. If she withdrew from the team competition because of a physical injury, nobody would be saying anything. Her issue was mental health, but rather than seeing it as the real medical issue that it is, you apparently see it as a character flaw.

That’s horrible.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#44

Post by RVInit »

filly wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:39 am
Slim Cognito wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:54 am I'm guessing the hardest thing Biles ever did was make the very public decision to withdraw, knowing how people would attack her. Sure, it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.
Or breaks their neck and becomes a quadriplegic.
:yeahthat: Her moves are more spectacular, and more dangerous than many of the competitors. If she's off her game she could suffer severe injury. I fall on the side of seeing her as being even more GOAT for the fact that she gathered the courage to face the backlash she obviously is facing in order to the right thing for the team as well as herself.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#45

Post by Volkonski »

RVInit wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:44 am
filly wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:39 am
Slim Cognito wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:54 am I'm guessing the hardest thing Biles ever did was make the very public decision to withdraw, knowing how people would attack her. Sure, it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.
Or breaks their neck and becomes a quadriplegic.
:yeahthat: Her moves are more spectacular, and more dangerous than many of the competitors. If she's off her game she could suffer severe injury. I fall on the side of seeing her as being even more GOAT for the fact that she gathered the courage to face the backlash she obviously is facing in order to the right thing for the team as well as herself.
Exactly.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#46

Post by neeneko »

Lani wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:30 am Does winning Nationals with broken toes in both feet count? How about winning Worlds with a kidney stone?
Kinda reminds me of stories of soldiers who break cover and blithely run out to be 'brave'. Not good for the team, not good for them, high risk, but really makes for a good story since people (who were not there) who like the romance of 'personal victory at all costs!'

Something like winning the Nationals with such injuries is not something be admired. It is recklessness that just happened to turn out well, and our culture heavily romanticize risky behavior that results in victory even when professionals know it was a dumb move. We are attached to that kind of story because is validates, well, the story. And since this is a spectator sport, audiences like athletes taking risks for dramatic wins because, at the end of the day, it isn't like the audience suffers any consequences.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#47

Post by raison de arizona »

Simone Biles wrote:At the end of the day, where we’re human too so we have to protect our mind in our body rather than just go out there and do what the world wants us to do.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#48

Post by Suranis »


Angry Staffer@Angry_Staffer

1. You don’t ‘suck it up and compete’ when you’re losing yourself in the air - that’s how you end up paralyzed or dead

2. Simone has gone through more than anyone deserves and doesn’t owe anyone anything

3. Mental health is as important as physical health

It’s also hard not to be impressed with her actions afterwards.

It would have been easy to go hide, but she supported her team, showed grace to her competitors, and gave a deeply personal interview about the importance of mental health.

She’s going to help save lives.
What he said. it reminds me of that guy who turned around 100 feet from the top of Mt Everest becasue he knew he didn't have enough energy to Summit, and then get back down. And then 6 Climbers died that night becasue they didn't have the same wisdom.

Also its fucking brave to withdraw when the easier option would have been to continue. It's a victory for Gymnastics and Mental Health.

And she owes us fuck all.
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#49

Post by somerset »

tek wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:24 am Wow. I guess there are both sides here too..

With what I know today, I'm on the side that thinks Biles did the right thing.
Believing she just blithely decided to drop out implies that all she's been through so far has just been a charade.

But YMMV.
I'm not sure that's what has been implied, although I can see some folks leaning that way. Personally, I don't think so.

That said, mental and physical toughness are hallmarks of world class athletes. To give this a little perspective, what would the sportsball fans here think about a star quarterback "not being mentally up" for the superbowl? Or a star forward "not being mentally up" for the world cup finals? Would they be given the same deference?
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Re: 2021 Olympics - Japan. Or maybe not.

#50

Post by somerset »

Suranis wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:14 pm

Also its fucking brave to withdraw when the easier option would have been to continue. It's a victory for Gymnastics and Mental Health.

And she owes us fuck all.
Gotta disagree. She chose to represent the United States at the Olympic Games. She's been entrusted by her team and her country to be the anchor of the team. If you don't owe the people who trust you something, what good is trust?
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