Man-Made Disasters

[RTH10260]

Months before the building’s collapse, a condo official warned that damage had ‘gotten significantly worse’ in recent years.

By Kimiko de Freytas-Tamura and Campbell Robertson
June 29, 2021, 10:13 a.m. ET

Less than three months before the collapse of the Champlain Towers South condo complex in Surfside, Fla., the president of the condominium association warned in a letter that the damage in the building had “gotten significantly worse” since it was highlighted in a 2018 inspection.

The letter was written to residents by Jean Wodnicki, president of the association’s board of directors, explaining why a list of extensive construction projects were worth a $15 million special assessment that residents were being asked to pay.

Along with the 2018 inspection, which warned of “major structural damage,” the letter, a copy of which The New York Times obtained, adds to a growing body of evidence that engineers had raised alarms about serious flaws in the building months and even years before the catastrophic building failure, which killed 11 people and left 150 unaccounted for.

Ms. Wodnicki could not immediately be reached for comment.

That 2018 inspection warned that concrete damage would “multiply exponentially” in the coming years, Ms. Wodnicki wrote in the letter, which was first reported by USA Today and The Wall Street Journal. The engineer who prepared that initial report, Frank Morabito, carried out “a much more detailed survey of the property” and found signs that this acceleration was indeed already happening. “When you can visually see the concrete spalling (cracking), that means that the rebar holding it together is rusting and deteriorating beneath the surface,” Ms. Wodnicki wrote.



https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/29/us/s ... etter.html

[johnpcapitalist]

Months before the building’s collapse, a condo official warned that damage had ‘gotten significantly worse’ in recent years.

The letter was written to residents by Jean Wodnicki, president of the association’s board of directors, explaining why a list of extensive construction projects were worth a $15 million special assessment that residents were being asked to pay.

I read elsewhere that this assessment works out to between $75,000 and $200,000 per unit. I would suspect that many of the longtime tenants in the building are retired and bought in long ago, when the units went for $100,000 or something like that versus the $500,000 to $800,000 today (which I recall reading in another article). A lot of retirees are not likely to have that kind of liquid cash.

I have heard that condo politics can be fairly vicious, especially around assessments. You can sell an assessment of $1,200 for painting the building because that is a short term benefit: it increases property values if you're selling soon, and improves your daily quality of life. But it's really hard to sell an assessment of $75,000 to prevent your building from falling down and killing you in the middle of the night. "I've lived here for 40 years, and it has been rusting for 30 of those. If it hasn't fallen down by now, it's not gonna." If 50% of the units are old-timers, then the assessment will never pass a vote and down she comes at some future date.

Actually, with the effects of salt water on rebar, I'm surprised that this is not a weekly thing in Florida. Bet it will be in another 10-20 years.

[tek]

ms.tek has been watching this with interest, both as a (former) lawyer and as a member of a condo board for 10 years (renovated mill in Lowell MA)

The assessments are indeed a big deal, but also: once the board has notice of an issue they can't "do nothing"..

in the Lowell case, the condos were built in around 2005, so not that old. But, they had to do assessments for a new boiler (no longer economical to repair, but the state requires that the heat work), new AC chillers (they were just the wrong units, period), and replumbing ALL the heat exchangers in EVERY unit (the developer used uninsulated rigid pipe for the risers between floors, causing condensation damage in the units and two pipe fractures that caused units to flood).

This in the 2010s when the value of the condos had fallen significantly.

Luckily the board managed to recover about 1/3 of the money from the shyster developer, but the effort to get that money back took a big chunk out of the board member's lives that they'll never get back. And it still amounted to about a $10K/unit assessment, which when the value of your home has fallen from $200K to $130K is a pretty big hit.

[Kendra]

Another body found today.

Biden is going to visit on Thursday. Better him than the s*** show we'd get from TFG. Bet Biden won't toss rolls of paper towels...

[Uninformed]

“THEORIES Trump cultist: Florida building collapsed because the ‘deep state knew someone important lived there’”:
https://deadstate.org/trump-cultist-flo ... ved-there/

“Failed congressional candidate and QAnon conspiracy theorist DeAnna Lorraine appeared on the right-wing Stew Peters Show this Friday and injected her mind-numbingly stupid thoughts on the collapse of the 12-story Champlain Towers South on June 24 in Florida.”

Can’t understand how she wasn’t elected.

[neonzx]

“THEORIES Trump cultist: Florida building collapsed because the ‘deep state knew someone important lived there’”:
https://deadstate.org/trump-cultist-flo ... ved-there/

“Failed congressional candidate and QAnon conspiracy theorist DeAnna Lorraine appeared on the right-wing Stew Peters Show this Friday and injected her mind-numbingly stupid thoughts on the collapse of the 12-story Champlain Towers South on June 24 in Florida.”

Can’t understand how she wasn’t elected.

“They just don’t fall in one fell swoop either,” she continued. “The only time I’ve ever seen that was at 9/11. And we all know that building didn’t just spontaneously fall either. This was a demolition.”

She also claimed that controversial software entrepreneur John McAfee, who was recently found dead in a Spanish jail due to suspected suicide, had links to the building.

Ah HA! Now I know where my crazy 5g neighbor got this from. Again, a couple friends and I were hanging out on a lanai yesterday evening and she came over and stated as fact that it was a 'controlled demolition' and it was because the government was after McAfee (mispronounced it-- had to figure out who she meant) and that McAfee owned a condo in the building.

I told her she needs to stop reading whatever websites she's reading. She said she doesn't -- people 'send her stuff'.

[neonzx]

Over 70 units at Kissimmee condos deemed unsafe after inspection, county official says
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/br ... story.html

Dozens of units at a Kissimmee condominium complex were deemed unsafe Wednesday after an inspection found the walkways leading to the units were at risk of collapsing, according to an Osceola County spokesperson.

On Wednesday morning, county officials declared buildings housing 72 units at Images Condominiums unsafe after an engineering firm discovered several walkways leading to the units are “in danger of collapse” and posed a safety concern during an inspection, Osceola County spokesperson Chris Brumbaugh said.


The engineering report was conducted on behalf of the condominiums’ management company, Brumbaugh said, and the condo association and management company are responsible for repairing the structural issues found by the inspection. County property records list the condominiums’ owners as Images Condo Association, Inc.

Osceola County staff and partners were at the condominiums offering residents assistance with temporary housing Wednesday, and staff will also be at the complex offering assistance Thursday, Brumbaugh said.

[Kendra]

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/0 ... ewNQ6qj3q8

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis on Thursday praised President Joe Biden’s federal response to the collapse of a condo building in the coastal suburb of Surfside — providing a moment of bipartisan bonhomie between the leader of the Democratic Party and a rising star within Donald Trump’s GOP.

Speaking at a command briefing near the site of the deadly disaster, DeSantis — seated beside Biden — said the president had “recognized the severity of this tragedy from day one, and you’ve been very supportive.”


The governor went on to assess that cooperation between local, state and federal partners seeking to manage the fallout from the building collapse “has been great,” telling Biden: “You guys have not only been supportive at the federal level, but we’ve had no bureaucracy.”


“I promise you,” the president replied, “there will be none.”

[Volkonski]

ABC News
@ABC
LATEST: Structural engineers, who have been on site monitoring the situation, are planning for the likely demolition of the rest of the condominium.

[filly]

But how long will that take? I heard it's a good bit of time. This is a dilemma for the authorities: risk the recovery workers or leave bodies under the rubble for a long time. Given the agony the families are going through, that's an unbearable choice, but having recovery workers killed is equally awful.

[sugar magnolia]

But how long will that take? I heard it's a good bit of time. This is a dilemma for the authorities: risk the recovery workers or leave bodies under the rubble for a long time. Given the agony the families are going through, that's an unbearable choice, but having recovery workers killed is equally awful.

I don't think the choice between living and dead people is agonizing at all. The chances of someone being killed by mucking around in an unstable building is astronomically higher than someone surviving under 12 floors of rubble for over a week.

Maybe I've lived with tornadoes and hurricanes too long, but even if I had a family member still missing I don't believe I'd ask the rescuers to continue if it was unsafe.

[Estiveo]

[filly]

But how long will that take? I heard it's a good bit of time. This is a dilemma for the authorities: risk the recovery workers or leave bodies under the rubble for a long time. Given the agony the families are going through, that's an unbearable choice, but having recovery workers killed is equally awful.

I don't think the choice between living and dead people is agonizing at all. The chances of someone being killed by mucking around in an unstable building is astronomically higher than someone surviving under 12 floors of rubble for over a week.

Maybe I've lived with tornadoes and hurricanes too long, but even if I had a family member still missing I don't believe I'd ask the rescuers to continue if it was unsafe.

I get it. That is rational response but you still have to take into account the emotions of the families who continue to hold out hope. I just read in the Miami Herald that Mayor Caba has approved the demolition but it won’t take place for weeks so the responders will continue their dangerous work.

[RTH10260]

[Volkonski]

[RTH10260]

Note taken from other news source: not all FL counties re-certify older buildings. There will be several property owners that are left out in this state.

[Lani]

Before this condo crumbled, word was getting around Honolulu about aging condos. Not as bad as Florida because rebar was being checked and treatments were underway before a disaster. But this is complicating my mission to find a retirement condo in late 2021/early2022. Hey, if you want a condo in Waikiki, some prices are reasonable (because they will be under water).

[Volkonski]

[zekeb]

I'd think that would interfere with the recovery efforts.

[Volkonski]

I'd think that would interfere with the recovery efforts.

Yes, but if the building is unstable it could fall at any moment. Better to get the responders to safety and bring it down in a controlled manner.

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 21658.html

Notice how the one drain pipe in the right picture is out of plumb.

That indicates some serious deflection is going on.

I disagree. Notice the pipe strap? Between that and the valve body, the vertical portion of the pipe simply can't be plumb without ripping the pipe strap out of the wall. Also, the tee is definitely installed at an angle. This close to the pump, that can't be torsion. This pipe was installed that way.

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 21658.html

Notice how the one drain pipe in the right picture is out of plumb.

That indicates some serious deflection is going on.

I disagree. Notice the pipe strap? Between that and the valve body, the vertical portion of the pipe simply can't be plumb without ripping the pipe strap out of the wall. Also, the tee is definitely installed at an angle. This close to the pump, that can't be torsion. This pipe was installed that way.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that's an elbow, not a tee. The pipe running off into the background is at a lower level, just perspective made it look like a continuation. There's no requirement for a pipe to be perfectly plumb in this type of installation.

[Volkonski]

I'd think that would interfere with the recovery efforts.

Yes, but if the building is unstable it could fall at any moment. Better to get the responders to safety and bring it down in a controlled manner.

Officials now saying that they want the building down before the tropical storm arrives.

[sugar magnolia]

I'd think that would interfere with the recovery efforts.

Yes, but if the building is unstable it could fall at any moment. Better to get the responders to safety and bring it down in a controlled manner.

Officials now saying that they want the building down before the tropical storm arrives.

That's actually a good plan. In addition to bringing more of the building down, a hurricane will fling all that loose shit around like missiles.

[Lani]

I didn't see much info here about the Biden visit. Maybe I just missed it.... Anyway, here's an article about the visit of the Bidens.

'We've come together': Biden meets with DeSantis, families missing loved ones in deadly condo collapse in Florida
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 814590002/

“They’re going through hell,” Biden said of the families he met with who, either escaped the building or still have loved ones missing. “Jill and I wanted them to know that we’re with them. That the country is with them. Our message today is that we’re here for you, as one nation.”

Biden announced that the federal government is covering 100% of the costs to the county and state for the first 30 days of the building collapse search and rescue operation. He noted that the Federal Emergency Management Agency will also provide temporary housing for survivors. In addition, he said he ordered the State Department to expedite visas for family members from other countries who had loved ones in the condo.

In an unannounced stop, Biden and the First Lady prayed at a memorial wall for missing family members. The First Lady laid a bouquet of white roses. The two held hands as they prayed, as Biden held his head down. The president made a sign of the cross before turning away and walking back to the motorcade.

Biden also met with family members of those who lived in the condo for the next couple of hours. That meeting was closed to the press. During his meeting with families whose loved ones have died or are still missing, Biden gave brief remarks, followed by other local and state officials, including DeSantis and Levine Cava, according to the pool report. Biden stayed in the meeting until everyone had a chance to speak with him.