Spring forward.
To delete this message, click the X at top right.

Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

Post Reply
User avatar
raison de arizona
Posts: 17654
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:21 am
Location: Nothing, Arizona
Occupation: bit twiddler
Verified: ✔️ he/him/his

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#101

Post by raison de arizona »

johnpcapitalist wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 7:55 pm
roadscholar wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 3:27 pmBut now I hear they're begging some young hotshots to learn it, because huge institutions and government entities still use it, and there's a shortage of programmers who know it. Specifically, the now burdened Unemployment systems country-wide are desperate for COBOL support.
My son thinks the road to riches lays along the path of slinging Python for a hedge fund. I have told him he could make more money with less pressure by moving to Omaha to work for First Data Resources, which handles most of the credit card clearing in the US and probably globally as well. It's all in COBOL, and uses two extremely fast & reliable but extremely arcane technologies including the IMS database (non relational but screamingly fast) and TPF (a TP monitor, way faster but way harder to code than CICS). All the old guys that wrote their stuff are retired or dead, and they'll pay a lot of money to get rookies on the platform and then stay there. But given that he's a Brooklyn hipster, he can't imagine living in Omaha. Can't say that I blame him.
I'm someone that knows COBOL, started out on 370 Assembler in the way back when, etc. I found that these mainframe based jobs (I also sysadmin'd z/vm, z/os, their predecessors, etc.) don't pay that good. In the scheme of things. Maybe once they get desperate they'll pay better, but not now I went the road of slinging Python code, just not for a hedge fund. I'm definitely not interested in doing fin-tech, that's a rule. "Data Engineer" is a big buzzword now, and it's like crap, I've been doing that for decades. Salaries are very good, I'm making more than double now what I was making two years ago.

I guess what I'm saying here is that your son ain't wrong, but fin-tech sucks and those bastards will burn you right out if you let them, so keep an eye on him. Also most of the DE jobs these days are remote anyway, I'm in Brooklyn, but my new job is out of SF.

Also, when all this COBOL crap (unemployment system) broke in NJ last year, I thought to myself, my turn to shine! They had old retired COBOL programmers crawling out of the woodwork. They had so many VOLUNTEERS to fix that crap, they didn't know what to do with them all. I was personally offended, with all the tens of thousands I've paid in taxes to NJ (I lived in NYC and worked in NJ for a number of years), they want me to VOLUNTEER???
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
User avatar
neeneko
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:32 am

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#102

Post by neeneko »

qbawl wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 9:35 pm Still a well placed GO TO could be useful (don't venture outside the scope of the current PERFORM though, because 'Here be dragons.')
hehehe. I still remember the first time I ran into c's 'longjump'.. oh the dragons I poked with that!
User avatar
neeneko
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:32 am

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#103

Post by neeneko »

johnpcapitalist wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 7:55 pm My son thinks the road to riches lays along the path of slinging Python for a hedge fund. I have told him he could make more money with less pressure by moving to Omaha to work for First Data Resources, which handles most of the credit card clearing in the US and probably globally as well.
I guess it would depend on what else he knows?
As a basic rule... no one hires Python programmers for being Python programmers (outside horrible grindy code mills that just want a warm butt in a seat).. they hire people with domain knowledge who know how to accomplish their skills in Python.

That being said.. don't the junior people in hedge funds tend to make little money and work horrific hours regardless? I interviewed for a python job at such a place a while back and the hours they required sounded.. incompetent.
User avatar
MN-Skeptic
Posts: 3000
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:03 pm
Location: Twin Cities

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#104

Post by MN-Skeptic »

Ah... the things young people have missed out on...

My sister-in-law told me of a tour she had in a national park by a young ranger, a relative of a friend so she got to see things other tourists would not. Apparently miners had been in this park years ago and the park left their miner sites as is as a piece of history. The ranger was puzzled by a piece of metal at the camp which had a coil of metal around it. My SIL chuckled... anyone of our vintage who had ever opened a can of Spam knew exactly what that relic was!
somerset
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:06 pm
Occupation: Lab Rat

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#105

Post by somerset »

MN-Skeptic wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:21 pm Ah... the things young people have missed out on...

My sister-in-law told me of a tour she had in a national park by a young ranger, a relative of a friend so she got to see things other tourists would not. Apparently miners had been in this park years ago and the park left their miner sites as is as a piece of history. The ranger was puzzled by a piece of metal at the camp which had a coil of metal around it. My SIL chuckled... anyone of our vintage who had ever opened a can of Spam knew exactly what that relic was!
Actually, even youngsters can experience this today. You can still get corned beef packaged that way

User avatar
Mrich
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:26 pm

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#106

Post by Mrich »

Last year (pre-COVID) I was at the dentist getting my teeth cleaned. The hygienist was new and there was another young woman who was appeared to be just observing (I didn't ask). When the hygienist handed me that sucking tube thing I said "I hate this thing; I kinda miss spit sinks." The hygienist said "Oh, yeah, we saw those in our "History of Dentistry" class."

The other one said "What's a spit sink?", and the hygienist said, "You know, like in the dentist's office in "Finding Nemo". She had never seen it.
User avatar
Maybenaut
Posts: 2579
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:07 am
Location: Maybelot
Verified: ✅✅

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#107

Post by Maybenaut »

My brother (RIP) was a dentist. He had a picture in his office showing how dental implements supposedly evolved over time. They all looked equally frightening to me.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
northland10
Posts: 5596
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:47 pm
Location: Northeast Illinois
Occupation: Organist/Choir Director/Fundraising Data Analyst
Verified: ✅ I'm me.

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#108

Post by northland10 »

Mrich wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:12 pm When the hygienist handed me that sucking tube thing I said "I hate this thing; I kinda miss spit sinks." The hygienist said "Oh, yeah, we saw those in our "History of Dentistry" class."

The other one said "What's a spit sink?", and the hygienist said, "You know, like in the dentist's office in "Finding Nemo". She had never seen it.
:biggrin:
Sorry to say this, but I don't recall ever using a spit sink when I went to the dentist as a kid (70s-80s). The observer must have been really young. Finding Nemo was only 18 years ago (oh gods... 18 years?).
Maybenaut wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:07 pm My brother (RIP) was a dentist. He had a picture in his office showing how dental implements supposedly evolved over time. They all looked equally frightening to me.
The frightening has not gone away but just evolved.
101010 :towel:
User avatar
RTH10260
Posts: 14351
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:16 am
Location: Switzerland, near the Alps
Verified: ✔️ Eurobot

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#109

Post by RTH10260 »

User avatar
Volkonski
Posts: 11589
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:06 am
Location: Texoma and North Fork of Long Island
Occupation: Retired mechanical engineer
Verified:

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#110

Post by Volkonski »

So much I didn't know about early telephones.
“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
User avatar
Luke
Posts: 5587
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:21 pm
Location: @orly_licious With Pete Buttigieg and the other "open and defiant homosexuals" --Bryan Fischer AFA

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#111

Post by Luke »

Before my time but on this 1968 Hawaii Five-O... Mimeograph machine.

Mimeo.JPG
Mimeo.JPG (28.01 KiB) Viewed 6694 times

Mimeo 2.JPG
Mimeo 2.JPG (31.11 KiB) Viewed 6694 times


We were way more advanced... Ditto Machines :lol: That purple ink!

The mimeograph printing process used an ink-filled cylinder and ink pad. Documents had to be prepared on a special wax-covered stencil on a typewriter which had its ribbon disengaged. ... The ditto machine used an alcohol-based fluid to dissolve some of the dye in the document, and transferred the image to the copy paper.

Forgot ditto machines didn't need power.


Ditto.JPG
Ditto.JPG (45.18 KiB) Viewed 6694 times






8 Technology Revolutions That Are Now Relics
https://www.treehugger.com/technology-r ... cs-4869033
Lt Root Beer of the Mighty 699th. Fogbow 💙s titular Mama June in Fogbow's Favourite Show™ Mama June: From Not To Hot! Fogbow's Theme Song™ Edith Massey's "I Got The Evidence!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5jDHZd0JAg
User avatar
RTH10260
Posts: 14351
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:16 am
Location: Switzerland, near the Alps
Verified: ✔️ Eurobot

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#112

Post by RTH10260 »

Ahhh - the sweeet almond scent :lol:

and the negative template would only last for a limited number of copies.

In the early 70's I worked for an IT department aka "electronic data processing" in then terminology, who had two fulltime secretaries that did nothing else but copy nicely written documents of analysts and programmers, including elaborate diagrams, to templates and then printed for distribution and archiving. Just cause the organization they worked for was unable to approve the budget for a Xerox machine, a real photocopier, used elsewhere already for near a decade.
User avatar
neonzx
Posts: 6120
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:01 am
Location: FloriDUH Hell
Verified: 🤩✅✅✅✅✅🤩

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#113

Post by neonzx »

Oh good grief, those Ditto machines. I hated them (I volunteered in our AV/media center so I got much experience). The copies come out 'wet'. It's probably the reason I refuse to own an ink-jet printer (again, they come out wet).
User avatar
Tiredretiredlawyer
Posts: 7541
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:07 pm
Location: Rescue Pets Land
Occupation: 21st Century Suffragist
Verified: ✅🐴🐎🦄🌻5000 posts and counting

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#114

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

The mimeograph ink smell was addictive. :biggrin:
"Mickey Mouse and I grew up together." - Ruthie Tompson, Disney animation checker and scene planner and one of the first women to become a member of the International Photographers Union in 1952.
humblescribe
Posts: 1091
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:42 pm
Occupation: Dude
Verified:

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#115

Post by humblescribe »

cash register.jpg
cash register.jpg (23.09 KiB) Viewed 6590 times
I operated one of these beauties at my first job at a liquor store while in high school in the early '70s.

No bar codes. No scanner. Sales tax had to be calculated separately and added to the merchandise total. Had to COUNT the change instead of entering amount tendered and have the machine tell me. We had separate functions for cash sales, credit card sales, (remember those three-part forms where you had to slide the press across the card that was wedged beneath those forms?) and in-house charge account sales.

We would save the cardboard from when we opened cigarette cartons. Those were our go-to paper sources when we Xed out at end of shift and Zed out at closing time. See horizontal slot on the left side of the register.
"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go." O. Wilde
somerset
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:06 pm
Occupation: Lab Rat

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#116

Post by somerset »

A fun thread, but before we get too impressed with our abilities to operate bygone technologies, how many Boomers could start and drive a Model T? (without Googling or looking at YouTube, what are the three pedals and that "spark advance" lever for?).

;)


User avatar
johnpcapitalist
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:59 pm
Location: NYC Area
Verified: ✅ Totally legit!

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#117

Post by johnpcapitalist »

humblescribe wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:49 pm cash register.jpg

I operated one of these beauties at my first job at a liquor store while in high school in the early '70s.

No bar codes. No scanner. Sales tax had to be calculated separately and added to the merchandise total. Had to COUNT the change instead of entering amount tendered and have the machine tell me. We had separate functions for cash sales, credit card sales, (remember those three-part forms where you had to slide the press across the card that was wedged beneath those forms?) and in-house charge account sales.
As laughable as this technology is by today's standards, it is one of the most important inventions in the history of business because of what it enabled. Before the cash register, a shopkeeper would be the employee that handled all the money, adding up customer purchases by hand, and ensuring that all the cash was collected. There was no way to detect and prevent employees from charging the customer and simply pocketing the cash.

The main point of the cash register was to collect a complete record of the day's sales so that the store owner could determine that the cash drawer contained all the money it was supposed to. In other words, it was not about convenience for the customer. That journal tape, which was in a locked compartment, was the thing.

Then you had to come up with a way to make it difficult for a clerk to get a correct total for multiple line items without using the register. Thus began the practice of ending prices in 9-cent intervals ($0.89, $0.99, etc.). It was much harder to add those kinds of numbers up accurately in your head, especially in a grocery store where a customer could purchase dozens of items. By having prices end in 9, you'd quickly train the employee to use the register and the customer to demand the use of the register, so that they would get charged correctly.

The integrated till that only opened when the sale was totaled out was another key invention that meant that clerks had to use the register -- there was no freestanding till that was always easy to go through and manipulate. You couldn't start adding up the next order until you closed the till from making change on the previous one.

The ability to have someone other than the shop owner man the till was key to enabling longer operating hours for stores, a particular convenience in the latter half of the 20th century. Most importantly, it was the essential foundation to enable chain stores such as Sears, W. T. Grant, and all the rest of the multi-site merchants that grew to dominate global retailing. The first workable cash register from a predecessor of NCR was invented in 1883, and Sears started operations in 1892.

There were tons of cash register manufacturers in the late 19th century, but NCR and a couple others (including a predecessor of IBM) rolled up the industry and drove the smaller players out of business via patents, aggressive pricing and good sales execution. The business began to operate like a monopoly/oligopoly, and prices for registers kept increasing because they were an essential tool for any business that handled cash. As I recall, there was a lot of concern about this in the 1920s, particularly in the trust-busting era. I don't have time to look it up, but IIRC, the concern was almost as significant as the worries about the power of Big Tech (Google, Facebook, etc.) today. I don't recall if there was aggressive anti-trust action by the government, but I suspect there was.
User avatar
raison de arizona
Posts: 17654
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:21 am
Location: Nothing, Arizona
Occupation: bit twiddler
Verified: ✔️ he/him/his

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#118

Post by raison de arizona »

somerset wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:00 pm A fun thread, but before we get too impressed with our abilities to operate bygone technologies, how many Boomers could start and drive a Model T? (without Googling or looking at YouTube, what are the three pedals and that "spark advance" lever for?).

;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTL5z32pqtU
My 1950 Chevy pick-up had a hand choke and a floor starter. Nobody could drive that. And that was only forty years old at the time.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
User avatar
tek
Posts: 2250
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:15 am

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#119

Post by tek »

somerset wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:00 pm A fun thread, but before we get too impressed with our abilities to operate bygone technologies, how many Boomers could start and drive a Model T? (without Googling or looking at YouTube, what are the three pedals and that "spark advance" lever for?).
The Model-T pedals (and the hand lever, which was also important) are 100% completely totally non-intuitive.
The spark advance lever was mostly to avoid having the starter crank break your arm ;)
User avatar
zekeb
Posts: 664
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:12 pm
Location: Strawberry Hill
Occupation: Stable genius. One who tosses horseshit with a pitchfork and never misses the spreader.

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#120

Post by zekeb »

tek wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:47 pm
somerset wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:00 pm A fun thread, but before we get too impressed with our abilities to operate bygone technologies, how many Boomers could start and drive a Model T? (without Googling or looking at YouTube, what are the three pedals and that "spark advance" lever for?).
The Model-T pedals (and the hand lever, which was also important) are 100% completely totally non-intuitive.
The spark advance lever was mostly to avoid having the starter crank break your arm ;)
You needed to retard the spark when pulling a load such as going up a hill. Not doing so would cause the engine to overheat.
Il factotum
User avatar
MN-Skeptic
Posts: 3000
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:03 pm
Location: Twin Cities

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#121

Post by MN-Skeptic »

covfefe wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:36 pm
somerset wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:00 pm A fun thread, but before we get too impressed with our abilities to operate bygone technologies, how many Boomers could start and drive a Model T? (without Googling or looking at YouTube, what are the three pedals and that "spark advance" lever for?).

;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTL5z32pqtU
My 1950 Chevy pick-up had a hand choke and a floor starter. Nobody could drive that. And that was only forty years old at the time.
Would you happen to be in the market for a fully restored cherry red 3/4 ton 1956 Chevrolet pickup?

Edited to add - It hasn’t been driven since 2000 when it was moved into our rebuilt garage.
User avatar
raison de arizona
Posts: 17654
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:21 am
Location: Nothing, Arizona
Occupation: bit twiddler
Verified: ✔️ he/him/his

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#122

Post by raison de arizona »

MN-Skeptic wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:54 pm Would you happen to be in the market for a fully restored cherry red 3/4 ton 1956 Chevrolet pickup?

Edited to add - It hasn’t been driven since 2000 when it was moved into our rebuilt garage.
Not in the market, but always interested. I think '56 is the year with the wrap around rear window? Or no?
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
User avatar
MN-Skeptic
Posts: 3000
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:03 pm
Location: Twin Cities

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#123

Post by MN-Skeptic »

covfefe wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:57 pm
MN-Skeptic wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:54 pm Would you happen to be in the market for a fully restored cherry red 3/4 ton 1956 Chevrolet pickup?

Edited to add - It hasn’t been driven since 2000 when it was moved into our rebuilt garage.
Not in the market, but always interested. I think '56 is the year with the wrap around rear window? Or no?
No.
User avatar
northland10
Posts: 5596
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:47 pm
Location: Northeast Illinois
Occupation: Organist/Choir Director/Fundraising Data Analyst
Verified: ✅ I'm me.

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#124

Post by northland10 »

Now that newer cars like Hondas and the GMC Terrain have the, maybe kids will be able to handle the old tech that flustered my grandmother when it was new tech, push-button transmission. Apparently, she had trouble with it.

Image

The kids also probably don't realize how to do donuts in the snow with a front-wheel drive, manual transmission Ford Escort or Plymouth Horizon. Either you have to do it backward, or you accelerate, start turning, and hit the parking brake (which is conveniently a lever to the right, not a pedal). It is not quite a donut but an out-of-control spin, but it was fun back in the day.
101010 :towel:
User avatar
MN-Skeptic
Posts: 3000
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:03 pm
Location: Twin Cities

Re: Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

#125

Post by MN-Skeptic »

When my husband was in driver's ed years ago, his instructor had the students practice in a snow covered parking lot. I thought that was a great idea! So my sweetie was excellent when it came to driving in snow and he dearly loved doing donuts in the newly fallen snow in an empty parking lot. He would also love coming down the hill in front of our house on new fallen snow, then pull the emergency brake while turning the steering wheel. When he was successful, the vehicle would end up pointing straight at our driveway.
Post Reply

Return to “The Funny”