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Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

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Frater I*I
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Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#1

Post by Frater I*I »

I know we don't hear much from him these days, but ya never know, besides he's the reason I found this forum.

My DP files with a trove of court docs and such, including trial and sentencing transcripts...

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lkx9m2zz5i9f ... hQVTa?dl=0


Gazer Into the SovCit Abyss
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scirreeve
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#2

Post by scirreeve »

Flatcap got a new job. Still in prison. Cox is an asshole but the prison wage system also sucks.
Schaeffer Cox
tSopoo1nsoc3hrued ·
Schaeffer is working in the prison now, 7 days a week, making $19.50 per month (not a typo, nineteen dollars and fifty cents per month). He is glad to be able to move around and use his talents.
We are still praying for his freedom!
Have a great weekend.
~Angela


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Arthurwankspittle
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#3

Post by Arthurwankspittle »

I'm surprised wife beating pays $19.50 a month.


Baidn
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#4

Post by Baidn »

Arthurwankspittle wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:07 am I'm surprised wife beating pays $19.50 a month.
I'm just shocked to hear he has talents.


"...don't teach a man to fish. He's a grown man and fishings not that hard." Ron Swanson the worlds only good libertarian
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Frater I*I
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#5

Post by Frater I*I »

Some time tomorrow Flat Cap Wife Beater's PD will get a oral argument in the 9th to try and overturn his conspiracy to commit murder charge. Court starts at 0930 PST, so 1330 east coast.

https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/media/view ... Zvp1l5vRes


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scirreeve
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#6

Post by scirreeve »

Frater I*I wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:08 pm Some time tomorrow Flat Cap Wife Beater's PD will get a oral argument in the 9th to try and overturn his conspiracy to commit murder charge. Court starts at 0930 PST, so 1330 east coast.

https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/media/view ... Zvp1l5vRes
It was today but I didn't watch it or look it up or anything cuz I am on vacation and don't check poot stuff much when I am vacationing.


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scirreeve
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#7

Post by scirreeve »

IANAL but sounds like the Judges spanked his attorney (no judgement yet of course). My favorite quote from a Judge "that seems to sink this appeal". I guess an attorney doesn't want to hear that from a Judge. I don't understand what Cox was arguing and doesn't sound like the Judges did either. I lied about not looking stuff up on vacation but Mrs. Reeve fell asleep so I did it. Never heard of an audita querala motion before so here is the Wiki thing about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audita_querela
The argument is here:


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johnpcapitalist
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#8

Post by johnpcapitalist »

scirreeve wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:45 am IANAL but sounds like the Judges spanked his attorney (no judgement yet of course). My favorite quote from a Judge "that seems to sink this appeal". I guess an attorney doesn't want to hear that from a Judge. I don't understand what Cox was arguing and doesn't sound like the Judges did either. I lied about not looking stuff up on vacation but Mrs. Reeve fell asleep so I did it. Never heard of an audita querala motion before so here is the Wiki thing about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audita_querela
The argument is here:
I actually invested the time to watch this end-to-end. I was pretty impressed that the judges seemed to really be on top of the game, having brushed up on this obscure type of warrant that Flatcap's lawyer is trying to use to get the verdict overturned. They certainly did hammer on her, but they didn't exactly go easy on the government lawyer either. I've never heard appellate arguments before, so this was really interesting, even if I didn't understand it. Glad I'm not an appellate lawyer. It doesn't look like fun to work on an argument for weeks or months in order to get raked over the coals like that, when you know it's an uphill battle to get a verdict overturned.


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bob
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#9

Post by bob »

scirreeve wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:45 amNever heard of an audita querala motion before so here is the Wiki thing about it.
As obscure writs go, it is one of the more obscure ones. Prison "lawyers" have it in their toolkits, so occasionally a federal prisoner will file a pro per one.

To see an actual lawyer attempt to do so is really unusual.


TheNewSaint
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#10

Post by TheNewSaint »

Without watching the video or knowing anything about this legal maneuver, I'm going to take a wild guess at the failure point:
Wikipedia wrote:...serves to permit a defendant who has had a judgment rendered against him or her to seek relief of the consequences of such a judgment where there is some new evidence or legal defense that was not previously available.
It's an obvious application of Flatcap's "I never done nuffink wrong" bit.


Buy hey, enough of my yackin'. What do you say? Let's boogie!
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noblepa
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#11

Post by noblepa »

Is Cox's trial a criminal or civil matter? We haven't heard much from him in a while, so I don't remember.

The Wikipedia article says that the writ was abolished in 1948 for Federal civil matters. Does that mean it is still available for criminal trials?


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scirreeve
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#12

Post by scirreeve »

noblepa wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:50 pm Is Cox's trial a criminal or civil matter? We haven't heard much from him in a while, so I don't remember.

The Wikipedia article says that the writ was abolished in 1948 for Federal civil matters. Does that mean it is still available for criminal trials?
Criminal conviction for conspiracy to commit murder.


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bob
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#13

Post by bob »

scirreeve wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:33 pm Criminal conviction for conspiracy to commit murder.
Yes, but: The underlying case is undoubtedly criminal, but the law treats writs like this as neither fish nor fowl, or sometimes both.

I would not be surprised if the ruling splits this baby, i.e., "this writ has been abolished; even if it hasn't, Cox still loses."


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Maybenaut
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#14

Post by Maybenaut »

johnpcapitalist wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:17 pm I've never heard appellate arguments before, so this was really interesting, even if I didn't understand it. Glad I'm not an appellate lawyer. It doesn't look like fun to work on an argument for weeks or months in order to get raked over the coals like that, when you know it's an uphill battle to get a verdict overturned.
My world, every day. Except for this: We (mostly) win the cases we ought to win, and (mostly) lose the cases we ought to lose. So I don’t feel like I’m beating my head against the wall most of the time.

This is what irks me the most. When we win, it can never be because I was right. The appellate court will invariably find some other reason for setting aside the conviction and sentence. it’s so annoying.


"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
chancery
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#15

Post by chancery »

Does anyone have a link to the briefs on this appeal?


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scirreeve
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#16

Post by scirreeve »

I saw his appeal on some pooty site but can't find it now cuz I don't remember which pooty site. Haven't seen the prosecution response.


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scirreeve
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#17

Post by scirreeve »

bob wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:52 pm
scirreeve wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:45 amNever heard of an audita querala motion before so here is the Wiki thing about it.
As obscure writs go, it is one of the more obscure ones. Prison "lawyers" have it in their toolkits, so occasionally a federal prisoner will file a pro per one.

To see an actual lawyer attempt to do so is really unusual.
I guess Flatcap instructed his attorney to proceed this way based on his prison "lawyering". I don't know how that works but guess she was obligated to proceed the way he directed unless it violated legal or court rules. I suspect his attorney told him it was stupid but he told her to proceed anyway. She is a Federal Public Defender from Western WA and was appointed by court to represent Flatcap.


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bob
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#18

Post by bob »

Generally, a prisoner seeking post-appeal relief has little say over litigation choices, other than firing the lawyer. And that's difficult to do with appointed counsel.

But my WAG is the jailhouse lawyering was good enough to get a judge's attention, who then appointed counsel. While even appointed counsel can't engage in frivolous litigation, because counsel was appointed for this very purpose, there's an understanding that counsel won't get dinged for attempting to make the best argument available.


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Maybenaut
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#19

Post by Maybenaut »

bob wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:02 am Generally, a prisoner seeking post-appeal relief has little say over litigation choices, other than firing the lawyer. And that's difficult to do with appointed counsel.

But my WAG is the jailhouse lawyering was good enough to get a judge's attention, who then appointed counsel. While even appointed counsel can't engage in frivolous litigation, because counsel was appointed for this very purpose, there's an understanding that counsel won't get dinged for attempting to make the best argument available.
OMG, that’s painful.

I may have mentioned this before, but, based on caselaw (U.S. v. Grostefon), in the military appellate system the appellant is allowed to “personally” raise whatever frivolous nonsense he wants. The military appellate courts require the counsel to assist the appellant in putting lipstick on that pig (meaning, just write it up), and I can’t tell you how many countless hours I spent trying to put a good spin on things like, “even though an unconditional guilty plea ordinarily waives Fourth Amendment issues...” When I was on active duty, I had to do it. Once I retired, those issues are specifically excluded from my fee agreement - dude still has a military counsel to work those issues.

I spent more time on frivolous issues than I did on actual meritorious ones.


"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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northland10
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#20

Post by northland10 »

chancery wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:43 pm Does anyone have a link to the briefs on this appeal?
All three in one file. This was a cross-appeal though I think the original appeal was dismissed. The government did ask for this to be dismissed but it was not, I think.

FYI.. Cox's attorney is a staff attorney for the public defender's office.

All three combined to make a large file so I put it on Scribd.


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bob
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#21

Post by bob »

Interesting. Thanks.

That's the appeal from the denial of the writ petition; the actual writ petition was filed in district court. I couldn't tell whether the public defender or Cox filed the writ petition in the district court.

It reads, however, like the public defender filed the writ petition. I'm not sure if I agree with the premise that no other post-conviction remedy was possible. But it also isn't a crazy, delay-inducing tactic. "Reasonable minds can differ."

Regardless, the 9th's appointing counsel for the appeal under these circumstances is not that strange. Especially if he had other proceedings also pending.


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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#22

Post by chancery »

northland10 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:42 am All three in one file.
Thanks very much.

The survival of common law writs in federal criminal practice is a fascinating oddity. The government's discussion of the writ includes a cite to Corpus Juris Secundum, a venerable legal encyclopedia no longer considered authoritative or even particularly reliable, resort to which frequently reflects a degree of frustrated desperation on the part of the author (I've been there).

I looked up Cox's counsel: BA and MA in English from UVA, law degree from the University of Chicago, nearly two years at a big firm, followed by a federal clerkship, attorney at the office of the federal public defender for the Western District of Washington since 2016.

It's a good thing for our country that young lawyers with a background that would give them their pick of private sector jobs seek out public defender careers.


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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#23

Post by scirreeve »

Cool - I will watch this and congrats to DZBill!


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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#24

Post by Frater I*I »

I'll have ta tune in for that...


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Phoenix
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Re: Francis Schaeffer Cox AKA Flat Cap Wife Beater

#25

Post by Phoenix »

Wow! You’ve hit the big time, DZ! Congratulations!
Will be watching!


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