Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#26

Post by Orlylicious » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:12 pm

Miki Birther.JPG
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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#27

Post by p0rtia » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:44 pm

Orlylicious wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:41 pm
Atlanta Black Star
‘It’s Hypocrisy’: CNN’s Don Lemon and April Ryan Have Heated Debate Over Sen. Kamala Harris’ ‘Blackness’
By Tanasia Kenney - February 13, 2019

Thanks, O! Really glad to watch the vid, which I'd never seen before.

So, NAZI hate machine aside.....

I get the importance of the issue to African Americans (at least I do after watching the video), but intellectually I admit I'm sitting here wondering what is the point of wanting a candidate to say out loud that she's not an American Descendant of Slaves, when it is already perfectly clear that she is not. Of course, actually she is ADOS, because the rest of the world gets it that America consists of two continents and a bunch of islands in the middle, including Jamaica, but for the sake of discussion I'll skip that part and go with the intended meaning of ADOS, which is, as I understand it, to have a cultural / generational / family connection with being ADOS.

This need to have the candidate say a thing that is already perfectly obvious is bizarre to me. And uncomfortably close to the pattern (although in reverse) of wanting Obama to show his birth certificate, and for Muslim candidates to declare their non-allegiance to Sharia law.

To add to the mix, I get it that what they want her to say is that she's not African American, which is equated to being ADOS. I am all a-whirl in memories of Obama's b.c., and the birther issue of whether or not Obama Sr. was "African American" or "African or Black" or "Negro". I admit I don't wholly get it, because, follow me down the logic rabbit-hole here, as someone who is also not African American, I'm pretty confident that I would not be asked to make the statement that I'm not African American. So the point must be that Harris looks like she could be (???) and the concern is that she might be intentionally appealing to the AA voter by establishing a relationship that she does not actually have? Which is exactly what the tweet said that Trump Jr. retweeted that caused the stir?

This (not being ADOS) was of course also a thing with Obama. So both Harris and Obama are not ADOS. Which, to go further into the weeds, is aside from the fact that they did have the experience of growing up in America as people of color and of experiencing racism first hand in the sense that cultural racism and individual racism in practice does not distinguish between ADOS and non-ADOS.

Feely very lily white here. Want to wrap my head around this NOW, so please help!
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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#28

Post by Whatever4 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:15 pm

Well, Harris is certainly blacker than Trump. Or Sanders, or Warren, or the 34,456 other candidates other than Booker.

She has personal experience of being black in America. Of attending a historically black college. Of having ethnic hair. Does it matter at all?
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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#29

Post by Sam the Centipede » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:00 pm

Absolutely W4 — if Kamala Harris was bussed as a schoolkid, then that alone indicates that she has had the authentic American Black experience. The rest of her life just adds to it.

And now she is experiencing the authentic American Black experience of being vilified by right-wing racists.

I think it's reasonable to say that if racist Republicans are attacking you on any sort of race or family history grounds, you're authentically Black! Doubly so when the racists (like Miki Booth) are claiming not to be racist.

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#30

Post by SuzieC » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:57 pm

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:00 pm
Absolutely W4 — if Kamala Harris was bussed as a schoolkid, then that alone indicates that she has had the authentic American Black experience. The rest of her life just adds to it.

And now she is experiencing the authentic American Black experience of being vilified by right-wing racists.

I think it's reasonable to say that if racist Republicans are attacking you on any sort of race or family history grounds, you're authentically Black! Doubly so when the racists (like Miki Booth) are claiming not to be racist.
Kamala Harris is black enough to have experienced racism in America starting with her busing as a little girl. The racists who are trying to drive a wedge between her and other black Americans will not be successful because they will see it as the racists' distraction that it is from her accelerating rise in the polls.

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#31

Post by Orlylicious » Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:00 pm

P0rtia, it was a tweet by Ali Akbar aka Ali Alexander that Don Jr. retweeted and then deleted. It's another calculated attack by the same family that brought the birfer issue to America before. Here's what kicked it off:

Ali Don Jr.JPG

Senator Harris should consider how President Obama handled it... this is how to treat Donald during a debate :P


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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#32

Post by Jeffrey » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:01 am

If we’re going to get into it, I would say it’s disingenuous to call it birtherism. Nobody is questioning her eligibility or citizenship. Kamala claimed to be a black American, many people interpret that to mean African American which is a very specific thing, aka descendant of slaves brought to the United States, that were freed then oppressed for another century. That’s a very different cultural background from blacks in the Caribbean. Analogously the experience of being a Mexican American is very different from being Cuban or Puerto Rican or Spanish in the United States and it would be natural for that type of concern to be raised.

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#33

Post by Sam the Centipede » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:59 am

SuzieC wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:57 pm
Kamala Harris is black enough to have experienced racism in America starting with her busing as a little girl.
Succinctly put!

Yes, if racists are targeting a black person – either about race/heritage or screeching that their insults are not motivated by racism :nope: – that person is definitely as black as s/he wishes to self-identify!

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#34

Post by Sam the Centipede » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:21 am

Jeffrey wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:01 am
If we’re going to get into it, I would say it’s disingenuous to call it birtherism. Nobody is questioning her eligibility or citizenship. Kamala claimed to be a black American, many people interpret that to mean African American which is a very specific thing, aka descendant of slaves brought to the United States, that were freed then oppressed for another century. That’s a very different cultural background from blacks in the Caribbean. Analogously the experience of being a Mexican American is very different from being Cuban or Puerto Rican or Spanish in the United States and it would be natural for that type of concern to be raised.
Well, it's a different brand of birtherism, but it's a similar story.

But KH's upbringing IS as a Black Ametican – she was in that bus during bussing!

Her heritage might be Afro-Caribbean but that is irrelevant. You're falling into the racist trap of looking at the purity of her blood … and we know where that led 70 years ago!

Obama birtherism wasn't really about birth, it was about race, and then it segued (with the sideshow about Ted Cruz) into a racial purity thing – is he a pure enough American? – which is a soft form of what the Nazis in Germany preached, and what motivates modern neo-nazis. It's separating special "Us" from undesirable "Them".

Your point about various origins of Spanish-speakers is irrelevant. Only when someone says (for example) "I am Cuban-American and I can speak for all Cuban-Americans" is a member of that community reasonably entitled to say "hey, your experience is not that of the wider Cuban-American community, you do not and cannot represent us."

One should not be misled by the surface arguments. It is often necessary to look for the underlying motivations of the people making the argument.

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#35

Post by realist » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:47 am

“Jeffrey” wrote: If we’re going to get into it, I would say it’s disingenuous to call it birtherism. Nobody is questioning her eligibility or citizenship.
That’s not true. Birther are Indeed questioning her eligibility based on the [bullshit] claim that she is not a natural born citizen.
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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#36

Post by p0rtia » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:52 am

Orlylicious wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:00 pm
P0rtia, it was a tweet by Ali Akbar aka Ali Alexander that Don Jr. retweeted and then deleted. It's another calculated attack by the same family that brought the birfer issue to America before.
:snippity:

Yes, I know. I was much more interested and therefore commenting on the Don Lemon - April Ryan exchange.

Two separate issues: 1) what racist shitheads say as they try to stir up hate and lies 2) what informed analysts say about an existing issue in the African American community.
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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#37

Post by Foggy » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:58 am

She's running for president of the United States. IMHO, any judgment of her candidacy that is based on her race or ethnic background is evil and racist and wrong. I wouldn't vote for her based on her skin color or her parentage or whether she rode a bus during busing. Millions of kids rode buses during busing and I'm not considering voting for any of them.

I'm voting based on the content of her character rather than the color of her skin, as Martin Luther King, Jr. said.

Having said that, people who are saying she's not as "authentically black" as, say, Cory Booker, are not birthers and that discussion belongs in the Kamala Harris 2020 thread. The Kamala Birthers are the idiots who insist that since her parents may not have been American citizens on the day she was born, she can't be a natural born citizen. Luckily,

1) that argument is unknown to the vast majority of Americans, even right-wing Republicans,

2) it won't make any difference unless she beats the field and becomes the nominee :pray: and

3) thankfully, the Obama Birthers left a trail of at least 10 published legal decisions saying that "born on US soil to two US citizens" is a load of horseshit. :smoking:

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#38

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:14 am

https://politicalcharge.org/2019/07/01/ ... formation/
Did You Spot Last Week’s Disinformation?

First up, after each of the debates, trolls spread messages through their social media networks and encourages their followers to vote for some of the weaker candidates (as far as polling goes) on every online poll they could find. NBC reported on what they found at the pro-Trump community message groups following the first debate; Mother Jones had the story about who those communities were pushing after the second debate. Unfortunately for all of us, less trust-worthy news sites had headlines that touted the results of those online polls, leaving seeds of disinformation in the minds of readers.

Then, following many news stories that Kamala Harris had done well in the second debate and was expected to see a big boost in polling and fundraising, a lot of social media posts suddenly appeared that was, essentially, this election’s version of the birtherism lie. Buzzfeed did great reporting on the origins of these stories — they came from–surprise, surprise–Neo-Nazi and conspiracy sites.

Yesterday, the New York Times broke a story about how a popular Joe Biden website, that upon initial inspection looks like an official campaign website, in fact is a spoof. It is designed to make Joe look bad. This site wasn’t created by Russia. No, in fact it was created by a consultant who is working for Trump’s re-election campaign. He’s already built websites for Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren, too.

It’s all about creating chaos and depressing turnout. People get turned off from the candidates and often, from politics altogether
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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#39

Post by Reality Check » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:12 am

Foggy wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:58 am
:snippity:
3) thankfully, the Obama Birthers left a trail of at least 10 published legal decisions saying that "born on US soil to two US citizens" is a load of horseshit. :smoking:
Yep, and we should thank Chuckles Kerchner, Blovario, and others every time one of those cases is cited. :dance:
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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#40

Post by Orlylicious » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:13 pm

BigLeague Politics is another vile RW site, of course Miki Booth is right there:





https://bigleaguepolitics.com/slave-reg ... tor-owned/
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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#41

Post by Jeffrey » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:21 pm

Am I reading it wrong or is that saying that because a plantation owner raped one of Harris’ ancestors she should have to pay reparations? I think that’s the most offensive thing I’ve read this year.

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#42

Post by Addie » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:00 pm

I'm not all up on this topic, but I would think we've already got this.

Anyways:
BuzzFeed News: These Bizarre Kamala Harris And Mark Zuckerberg Conspiracy Sites Are Run By A Montessori School Operator

A network of sites from American Intelligence Media have launched fringe conspiracy theories into the mainstream.

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#43

Post by bob » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:07 pm

BuzzFeed News: These Bizarre Kamala Harris And Mark Zuckerberg Conspiracy Sites Are Run By A Montessori School Operator
From the article:
Jason Goodman, who runs the Crowdsource the Truth YouTube channel, last year labeled [Douglas] Gabriel[*] “the latest double talking charlatan to attempt to infiltrate the alternative media world.”
Goodman, who has lately been palling around with Klayman, clearly doesn't appreciate the competition for the same grifter bucks.


* Also from the article:
Gabriel’s bio says he holds a PhD and is “a retired superintendent of schools and professor of education.” He also claims to be a priest, lecturer for several colleges, and to have worked for the NSA as a “cryptologist and systems analyst in signal intelligence.”
Sounds perfect for the Cold Cream Posse!
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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#44

Post by Jeffrey » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:36 pm

I think this goes here:
The White House has repeatedly declined to release a list people it expects to attend, but some of the recipients have turned to social media to boast about being invited.

Among them are ... Ali Alexander, an activist who attempted to smear Sen. Kamala Harris by saying she is not an "American black" following the first Democratic presidential debates.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/10/tech ... index.html

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#45

Post by pipistrelle » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:04 pm

Jeffrey wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:36 pm
I think this goes here:
The White House has repeatedly declined to release a list people it expects to attend, but some of the recipients have turned to social media to boast about being invited.

Among them are ... Ali Alexander, an activist who attempted to smear Sen. Kamala Harris by saying she is not an "American black" following the first Democratic presidential debates.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/10/tech ... index.html
Well, isn't that a dream come true? Cold hamberders with the man himself in the house owned by the government they despise.

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#46

Post by Jeffrey » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:06 pm

I think it's fair to intepret that as an endorsement by the White House of the birtherism slander.

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#47

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:36 pm

I want to volunteer my and the team of intrepid Fogbowzers' services to the Kamala Harris campaign to fight the birfers. Does anyone have Kamala's sister Maya's email addy so that I can properly volunteer us? If so, please PM me.

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#48

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:42 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:36 pm
I want to volunteer my and the team of intrepid Fogbowzers' services to the Kamala Harris campaign to fight the birfers. Does anyone have Kamala's sister Maya's email addy so that I can properly volunteer us? If so, please PM me.
I applaud this gesture.
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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#49

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:18 am

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:42 am
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:36 pm
I want to volunteer my and the team of intrepid Fogbowzers' services to the Kamala Harris campaign to fight the birfers. Does anyone have Kamala's sister Maya's email addy so that I can properly volunteer us? If so, please PM me.
I applaud this gesture.
If asked, we will be calling on the collective brainpower of this site, lawyers and non lawyers.

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Re: Kamala Harris "Birtherism 2.0" -- Here Birthers Go Again -- Donald Jr

#50

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:16 pm

:thumbs:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:18 am
Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:42 am
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:36 pm
I want to volunteer my and the team of intrepid Fogbowzers' services to the Kamala Harris campaign to fight the birfers. Does anyone have Kamala's sister Maya's email addy so that I can properly volunteer us? If so, please PM me.
I applaud this gesture.
If asked, we will be calling on the collective brainpower of this site, lawyers and non lawyers.
:thumbs:
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