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Military Crime

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Volkonski
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Military Crime

#1

Post by Volkonski »

Army investigating Oklahoma training instructors in alleged sexual assaults
A female trainee at Fort Sill said members of the training cadre engaged in a series of attacks on her.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ar ... d_nn_tw_ma
The Army confirmed the investigation Thursday, saying in a statement that the training cadre members, "presumed innocent," were suspended as the investigation proceeds.

Special agents from the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command were investigating the allegations. The woman was not identified.

"A trainee raised allegations she was sexually assaulted by Cadre members," Maj. Gen. Kenneth L. Kamper, commanding general of the base's Fires Center of Excellence training center, said during a teleconference Thursday.

She was placed with counselors and was not hospitalized, he said.
“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Maybenaut
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Re: Military Crime

#2

Post by Maybenaut »

Why the quotation marks around “presumed innocent”? They literally are presumed to be innocent until found guilty at court-martial.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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p0rtia
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Re: Military Crime

#3

Post by p0rtia »

Maybenaut wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:20 am Why the quotation marks around “presumed innocent”? They literally are presumed to be innocent until found guilty at court-martial.
I took it that the writer of the piece and editor (if any) went overboard in an attempt to show that they were quoting something. People overuse quotation marks in absurd ways, often when using metaphoric language, but sometimes, as here, in a foolish attempt to show they're not just "makin' stuff up." :thumbsup:
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Re: Military Crime

#4

Post by Maybenaut »

p0rtia wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:23 am
Maybenaut wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:20 am Why the quotation marks around “presumed innocent”? They literally are presumed to be innocent until found guilty at court-martial.
I took it that the writer of the piece and editor (if any) went overboard in an attempt to show that they were quoting something. People overuse quotation marks in absurd ways, often when using metaphoric language, but sometimes, as here, in a foolish attempt to show they're not just "makin' stuff up." :thumbsup:
It’s laziness. The writer could have said “presumed innocent under military law” without quotation marks and I wouldn’t have blinked an eye. Putting it in quotes made it sound like the writer didn’t believe they were actually innocent, and was giving lip service to the presumption. It’s sloppy reporting.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Military Crime

#5

Post by p0rtia »

Exactly. But I wouldn't conclude laziness. Inexperience is my best guess. :thumbsup:
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Re: Military Crime

#6

Post by Maybenaut »

Former AFRL commander at Wright-Patterson will face court-martial
A sexual assault charge has been referred to general court-martial in the case of Air Force Maj. Gen. William Cooley, Air Force Materiel Command (AFMC) said Wednesday.

AFMC Commander Gen. Arnold Bunch Jr., the general court-martial convening authority in the case, referred one charge under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, including three specifications of sexual assault under Article 120 against Cooley. Article 120 concerns sexual assault.

<snipped quotes from a self-promoter>

“After a comprehensive review of all of the evidence from the investigation and the Article 32 preliminary hearing, I’ve informed Maj. Gen. Cooley of my decision to move his case to general court-martial,” Bunch said in an announcement from AFMC. “I can assure you this was not a decision made lightly, but I believe it was the right decision.” The charge stems from an August 12, 2018 off-duty incident in Albuquerque, N.M., where Cooley allegedly made unwanted sexual advances by kissing and touching a female. The woman is not a military member or DoD employee.

Following an investigation by the Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Bunch relieved Cooley of his command of the Air Force Research Laboratory January 15, 2020. Subsequently, Cooley has served as special assistant to Bunch, with duties focused on advancing the command’s Digital Campaign.


https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/j ... -Jp16T-C-o
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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sterngard friegen
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Re: Military Crime

#7

Post by sterngard friegen »

Air Force Maj. Gen. William Cooley is "presumed innocent," right?
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Maybenaut
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Re: Military Crime

#8

Post by Maybenaut »

sterngard friegen wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:51 pm Air Force Maj. Gen. William Cooley is "presumed innocent," right?
No. He is presumed innocent.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Military Crime

#9

Post by sterngard friegen »

Maybenaut wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:54 pm
sterngard friegen wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:51 pm Air Force Maj. Gen. William Cooley is "presumed innocent," right?
No. He is presumed innocent.
Thanks for the "clarification."
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Re: Military Crime

#10

Post by Maybenaut »

sterngard friegen wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:57 pm
Maybenaut wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:54 pm
sterngard friegen wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:51 pm Air Force Maj. Gen. William Cooley is "presumed innocent," right?
No. He is presumed innocent.
Thanks for the "clarification."
You’re “welcome.”
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Military Crime

#11

Post by fierceredpanda »

Maybenaut wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:00 pm
sterngard friegen wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:57 pm
Maybenaut wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:54 pm

No. He is presumed innocent.
Thanks for the "clarification."
You’re “welcome.”
I feel as though I missed something here. :?
"There's no play here. There's no angle. There's no champagne room. I'm not a miracle worker, I'm a janitor. The math on this is simple. The smaller the mess, the easier it is for me to clean up." -Michael Clayton
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Maybenaut
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Re: Military Crime

#12

Post by Maybenaut »

fierceredpanda wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:06 pm
Maybenaut wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:00 pm
sterngard friegen wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:57 pm

Thanks for the "clarification."
You’re “welcome.”
I feel as though I missed something here. :?
I was bitching earlier in the thread that a journalist put “presumed innocent” in scare quotes rather than just say the guy was presumed innocent.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Military Crime

#13

Post by fierceredpanda »

Maybenaut wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:11 pm
fierceredpanda wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:06 pm
Maybenaut wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:00 pm

You’re “welcome.”
I feel as though I missed something here. :?
I was bitching earlier in the thread that a journalist put “presumed innocent” in scare quotes rather than just say the guy was presumed innocent.
Yeah, I saw that after I posted my comment. :bag:
"There's no play here. There's no angle. There's no champagne room. I'm not a miracle worker, I'm a janitor. The math on this is simple. The smaller the mess, the easier it is for me to clean up." -Michael Clayton
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Re: Military Crime

#14

Post by sterngard friegen »

" :thumbup: "
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Suranis
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Re: Military Crime

#15

Post by Suranis »

"Kids"
Hic sunt dracones
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Maybenaut
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Re: Military Crime

#16

Post by Maybenaut »

Suranis wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:38 pm "Kids"
:lol:
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Re: Military Crime

#17

Post by keith »

Maybenaut wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:22 pm
Suranis wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:38 pm "Kids"
:lol:
Meh. Kids "today"
Has everybody heard about the bird?
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Re: Military Crime

#18

Post by Volkonski »

Airman found dead at Altus Air Force Base

https://www.kswo.com/2021/05/05/airman- ... ntent=kswo
LAWTON, Okla. (TNN) - An investigation is underway after an Airman was found dead at the Altus Air Force Base.

Base officials say the Airman from the 97th Air Mobility Wing was found Monday afternoon.

The details of his death have not been released, though officials say foul play is not suspected and the death is currently under investigation.
“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Military Crime

#19

Post by Maybenaut »

Volkonski wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 11:53 am Airman found dead at Altus Air Force Base

https://www.kswo.com/2021/05/05/airman- ... ntent=kswo
LAWTON, Okla. (TNN) - An investigation is underway after an Airman was found dead at the Altus Air Force Base.

Base officials say the Airman from the 97th Air Mobility Wing was found Monday afternoon.

The details of his death have not been released, though officials say foul play is not suspected and the death is currently under investigation.
Probably suicide if they don't suspect foul play but do need to investigate. Could also be accident.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Military Crime

#20

Post by Volkonski »

Army trainee arrested after hijacking SC school bus with gun; All 18 children, driver safe: Sheriff

https://abc13.com/10588954/?ex_cid=TA_K ... ce=twitter
During a news conference, Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said the incident started at around 7 a.m. near Fort Jackson, the U.S. Army's largest basic training facility, located in Columbia. The trainee, dressed in physical training clothes, "ran off post and escaped" with a rifle from the installation, Lott said. Deputies then started receiving calls about someone standing on a nearby interstate flagging down cars.

The trainee then went to a nearby bus stop where children were waiting to be taken to Forest Lake Elementary School, Lott said, and boarded the bus himself, armed with the rifle.

"He told the bus driver he didn't want to hurt anybody; he wanted him to drive him to the next town," Lott said.

Some of the 18 children on the bus began using cellphones to call parents to let them know what was happening, Lott said. After some of the children asked repeatedly if the trainee planned to hurt them or the driver, the trainee "got a little frustrated" and ordered the bus stopped, allowing the driver and children to get off, Lott said. He then drove the bus several miles before abandoning it, with the rifle inside.
The trainee has been charged with kidnapping. Will he also face a court-martial for leaving the base?
“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
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Re: Military Crime

#21

Post by noblepa »

Volkonski wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:57 pm Army trainee arrested after hijacking SC school bus with gun; All 18 children, driver safe: Sheriff

https://abc13.com/10588954/?ex_cid=TA_K ... ce=twitter
During a news conference, Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said the incident started at around 7 a.m. near Fort Jackson, the U.S. Army's largest basic training facility, located in Columbia. The trainee, dressed in physical training clothes, "ran off post and escaped" with a rifle from the installation, Lott said. Deputies then started receiving calls about someone standing on a nearby interstate flagging down cars.

The trainee then went to a nearby bus stop where children were waiting to be taken to Forest Lake Elementary School, Lott said, and boarded the bus himself, armed with the rifle.

"He told the bus driver he didn't want to hurt anybody; he wanted him to drive him to the next town," Lott said.

Some of the 18 children on the bus began using cellphones to call parents to let them know what was happening, Lott said. After some of the children asked repeatedly if the trainee planned to hurt them or the driver, the trainee "got a little frustrated" and ordered the bus stopped, allowing the driver and children to get off, Lott said. He then drove the bus several miles before abandoning it, with the rifle inside.
The trainee has been charged with kidnapping. Will he also face a court-martial for leaving the base?
IANAL, and I am certainly no expert on the UCMJ, but I suspect that going AWOL is the least of the charges that the guy will face. He could also face State charges.
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Re: Military Crime

#22

Post by Maybenaut »

Volkonski wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:57 pm Army trainee arrested after hijacking SC school bus with gun; All 18 children, driver safe: Sheriff

The trainee has been charged with kidnapping. Will he also face a court-martial for leaving the base?
If he’s been charged by the State, it’s likely that the military will let the state handle it and won’t bother with “military-only” offenses like unauthorized absence or theft of military property, although court-martial is a theoretical possibility.

The path of least resistance for the Army is to put the guy out with an uncharacterized discharge (meaning, neither honorable or any of the other four characterizations available). They can kick out anyone for any reason in the first 180 days (according to the article, dude was in his third week of basic training). You’ll recall that’s what happened to Bowe Bergdahl - he got kicked out of the Coast Guard while still in boot camp, then he got a waiver to go into the Army.

To me, this is incredibly sad. It’s not all that unusual for recruits to go batty during boot camp. In fact, that’s what boot camp is for — in addition to assimilating people into the culture, it helps identify people who can’t handle the stress of the military. But it can be brutal if you’re vulnerable to the pressure.

I think there’s real potential for an insanity plea in this case. I’m not saying it will succeed, but I think most people understand that stress make people do weird stuff.
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Re: Military Crime

#23

Post by zekeb »

Back in my day we couldn't just ring the bell while in boot camp when we had enough of the military. I believe they can today. I suppose he did go over the edge.
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Re: Military Crime

#24

Post by Maybenaut »

zekeb wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:08 pm Back in my day we couldn't just ring the bell while in boot camp when we had enough of the military. I believe they can today. I suppose he did go over the edge.
I don’t know what they can do today. I went to boot camp in 1981, and the only time they offered an out was on graduation day. The CO came into the classroom, said anyone who wants out can leave with an uncharacterized discharge, no questions asked. There were no takers. Self-disenrollment from officer candidate school in 1992 was a thing, and at least one of my OCS classmates did it.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Military Crime

#25

Post by northland10 »

Maybenaut wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:17 pm To me, this is incredibly sad. It’s not all that unusual for recruits to go batty during boot camp. In fact, that’s what boot camp is for — in addition to assimilating people into the culture, it helps identify people who can’t handle the stress of the military. But it can be brutal if you’re vulnerable to the pressure.
I guess this means that the downward mental spiral of Private Pyle in Full Metal Jacket is not entirely without some truthiness. I am told R. Lee Ermey's performance was rather truthful as well. Kubrick rarely allows improvisation but let Ermey just go. The writers said they never would have come up with what he could do off the top of his head.

I assume they have had to dial back some of their treatment of recruits. Still, I remember finding a video of a Marine DI screaming instructions at his recruits. I found it a little amusing because it was not instructions on how to march, stand, etc. It was instructions about physical and sexual harassment, how it must be reported, and who to report it to, depending on who is doing it. It included the DI yelling at them that they must report him if he is doing it.
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