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Gun Control

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neeneko
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Re: Gun Control

#201

Post by neeneko »

sugar magnolia wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:09 pm It's just an orange plastic plug, easily popped off or painted over. About the absolute most useless gun-related law I can think of.
Well, you have two basic problems : People with pretend guns trying to convince people that they have real ones, and people with pretend guns who do not want to be mistaken for people with real ones.

The plastic marking does not do much for the former since that represents someone taking deliberate steps to appear more dangerous than they are, but it can be a benefit to the later who just want to enjoy a toy without someone mistaking it for a weapon.
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sugar magnolia
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Re: Gun Control

#202

Post by sugar magnolia »

neeneko wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:59 pm
sugar magnolia wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:09 pm It's just an orange plastic plug, easily popped off or painted over. About the absolute most useless gun-related law I can think of.
Well, you have two basic problems : People with pretend guns trying to convince people that they have real ones, and people with pretend guns who do not want to be mistaken for people with real ones.

The plastic marking does not do much for the former since that represents someone taking deliberate steps to appear more dangerous than they are, but it can be a benefit to the later who just want to enjoy a toy without someone mistaking it for a weapon.
Unless you're the little thugs who used to live next door to us and dealt guns out of their trunk. Half of the real ones had orange plugs "so the cops didn't harass them." I have no idea what the supposed logic was behind that, but they added the orange tips to real guns. It's the stupidest gun related law on the books regardless of the reasoning behind it. Even in weapons training in the police academy they used all red simulated weapons, not just orange tips.
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RVInit
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Re: Gun Control

#203

Post by RVInit »

In the case of Tamir Rice, his killing is especially heart breaking because the person who called 911 made the call because she knew it was a toy gun and she was afraid that people would think it was real. That was her whole purpose of reporting it, if I recall correctly. Apparently, the fact that someone was reporting a TOY gun that might be mistaken for a real one was NOT communicated to the very people who would most likely react to a real gun situation. That whole situation was particularly fucked up.
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neeneko
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Re: Gun Control

#204

Post by neeneko »

sugar magnolia wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:12 pm Unless you're the little thugs who used to live next door to us and dealt guns out of their trunk. Half of the real ones had orange plugs "so the cops didn't harass them." I have no idea what the supposed logic was behind that, but they added the orange tips to real guns. It's the stupidest gun related law on the books regardless of the reasoning behind it. Even in weapons training in the police academy they used all red simulated weapons, not just orange tips.
Huh, I had not heard of cases like that.
Still, I think of it in terms of the swiss cheese model of avoiding accidents. It isn't perfect, it isn't a comprehensive solution that will prevent tragedy, but it is a layer which, if followed by manufacturer, is another thing that has to go wrong in order for something bad to happen. The more safeguards you have, the harder it is for accidents.

Though I do agree making the whole gun a bright obvious colour would be even better. Nice obvious red or blue or any of the construction colours.
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sugar magnolia
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Re: Gun Control

#205

Post by sugar magnolia »

neeneko wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:01 pm
sugar magnolia wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:12 pm Unless you're the little thugs who used to live next door to us and dealt guns out of their trunk. Half of the real ones had orange plugs "so the cops didn't harass them." I have no idea what the supposed logic was behind that, but they added the orange tips to real guns. It's the stupidest gun related law on the books regardless of the reasoning behind it. Even in weapons training in the police academy they used all red simulated weapons, not just orange tips.
Huh, I had not heard of cases like that.
Still, I think of it in terms of the swiss cheese model of avoiding accidents. It isn't perfect, it isn't a comprehensive solution that will prevent tragedy, but it is a layer which, if followed by manufacturer, is another thing that has to go wrong in order for something bad to happen. The more safeguards you have, the harder it is for accidents.

Though I do agree making the whole gun a bright obvious colour would be even better. Nice obvious red or blue or any of the construction colours.
Checked with my friend who is still on the street, and the reasoning is apparently to give the black hats with the real-guns-with-painted-orange-tips an extra 2 seconds to shoot before the cops realize what they're dealing with. See: Tamir Rice.

It's still an incredibly stupid law, if for no reason other than it creates confusion and hesitation in a confrontation.
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neeneko
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Re: Gun Control

#206

Post by neeneko »

sugar magnolia wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:12 pm Checked with my friend who is still on the street, and the reasoning is apparently to give the black hats with the real-guns-with-painted-orange-tips an extra 2 seconds to shoot before the cops realize what they're dealing with. See: Tamir Rice.
Are these criminals who find themselves in shootouts with cops, or edgy kids? Because it sounds like the type of tactics kids trying to sound tough would come up with.
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sugar magnolia
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Re: Gun Control

#207

Post by sugar magnolia »

neeneko wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:28 pm
sugar magnolia wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:12 pm Checked with my friend who is still on the street, and the reasoning is apparently to give the black hats with the real-guns-with-painted-orange-tips an extra 2 seconds to shoot before the cops realize what they're dealing with. See: Tamir Rice.
Are these criminals who find themselves in shootouts with cops, or edgy kids? Because it sounds like the type of tactics kids trying to sound tough would come up with.
And they come up with stupid shit like that because it's an idiot fucking law that means absolutely nothing.
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Re: Gun Control

#208

Post by Uninformed »

After watching a video of Jordan Klepper at Lindell’s “MAGAFrank Rally” (posted by Bob in the “Dominion sues…” thread, I noticed that Klepper had recently made a video about gun control (link below). While it is an attempt at a humorous take, it mentioned something I was unaware of, the fact that the ATF are prohibited by law from storing gun ownership details on a computer (or any other “searchable” medium?) and they are held on millions of paper records. (It appears that once a firearm related to a “crime” has been identified, computerised records can be / are held by various LE bodies). I initially thought Klepper was making it up or exaggerating. :brickwallsmall:

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Re: Gun Control

#209

Post by RTH10260 »

Uninformed wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:18 am After watching a video of Jordan Klepper at Lindell’s “MAGAFrank Rally” (posted by Bob in the “Dominion sues…” thread, I noticed that Klepper had recently made a video about gun control (link below). While it is an attempt at a humorous take, it mentioned something I was unaware of, the fact that the ATF are prohibited by law from storing gun ownership details on a computer (or any other “searchable” medium?) and they are held on millions of paper records. (It appears that once a firearm related to a “crime” has been identified, computerised records can be / are held by various LE bodies). I initially thought Klepper was making it up or exaggerating. :brickwallsmall:

https:// m.youtube.com/watch?v=DYLsmheaKEE
Correct about the non-computerized files. IIRC the federal government may also only keep paper records that index where in what states some weapons have been purchased, and theen they need to ask the states to work thru the paper archives. Also the states will not keep records, the records are stored at the dealerships. Only when a dealer goes out of business will the records be transfered to a state (federal?) archive. Just a pile of boxes that need to be manually searched as nothing is indexed.

I remember a Youtube clip from some news show reporting how this stuff works in real. :cantlook:
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Re: Gun Control

#210

Post by Frater I*I »

RTH10260 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:33 am Correct about the non-computerized files. IIRC the federal government may also only keep paper records that index where in what states some weapons have been purchased, and theen they need to ask the states to work thru the paper archives. Also the states will not keep records, the records are stored at the dealerships. Only when a dealer goes out of business will the records be transfered to a state (federal?) archive. Just a pile of boxes that need to be manually searched as nothing is indexed.

I remember a Youtube clip from some news show reporting how this stuff works in real. :cantlook:
They are to be transferred to the ATF or kept for I think 20 years by the former owner of the retailer.

Another fun fact: If the police pull you over and you have a machine gun in your possession, you have no obligation to show them you registration paperwork for it 'the tax stamp], unless they are an ATF agent.
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Re: Gun Control

#211

Post by Volkonski »

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Re: Gun Control

#212

Post by Dave from down under »

More from the gun makers are wanting children dead file -

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-14/ ... /100291810

Lego demands US company Culper Precision stop producing Glock pistol covering that looks like a toy

A US gun maker has caused controversy by selling a kit that makes a real Glock pistol look like a children's Lego toy.

Key points:
The pistol covering was described as a "childhood dream come to life" in an advertisement
The company has complied with Lego's cease and desist letter, saying it sold fewer than 20 of the items
US gun control activists say 165 people died in accidental shootings by children in 2021
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Re: Gun Control

#213

Post by Dave from down under »

additional from the above..

The colourful brick design gives the semi-automatic weapon a strong resemblance to a Lego toy.

The gun maker had been marketing it as a "Block19", selling for between $US549 ($737) and $US765.

"Here's one of those childhood dreams come to life," said Culper Precision in an advert for the gun on Instagram posted on June 24.

"Guns are fun. Shooting is fun. 30 rounds full auto is fun," the company said on its website.

'Children would die'
Ms Watts, who stressed that "unintentional shootings have risen by 30 per cent in the past year," told the Washington Post her first reaction upon seeing the gun was that it was "sick and children would die".
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Re: Gun Control

#214

Post by raison de arizona »

► Show Spoiler
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neeneko
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Re: Gun Control

#215

Post by neeneko »

Heh. Looks like one also has a gun barrel right in the dirt, which is one of those things our safety class was really big on NOT doing.
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Re: Gun Control

#216

Post by raison de arizona »

Can't vouch for Steinem being the true source, but I definitely appreciate the sentiment! :thumbsup:
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“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Re: Gun Control

#217

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:thumbsup:
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Re: Gun Control

#218

Post by RVInit »

:clap: :clap: :clap: :yeahthat:
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Re: Gun Control

#219

Post by neonzx »

Imma OK with that. :thumbsup:
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Re: Gun Control

#220

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

Yes!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Gun Control

#221

Post by raison de arizona »

So this is a good one. Guy goes on Instagram live and shows off his new machine gun. Cop catches the live broadcast, and not only recognizes him, but also the apartment complex he’s filming in front of. Minutes later, dude’s in cuffs. Happened fast enough to make your head spin.
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Re: Gun Control

#222

Post by Dave from down under »

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: Gun Control

#223

Post by raison de arizona »

We all know that the only thing that could have stopped this would have been a good guy with a gun. I vote for grandma, the toddler is the attacker, dad is the victim, that leaves grandma as the one that should have faced that toddler down and shot him to stop him from making his father a victim.
2-year-old shoots dad dead while playing with handgun, grandma says

A dad was shot to death by the 2-year-old son he was feeding when the toddler got his tiny hands on a 40-caliber Glock pistol and fired a fatal shot, according to published reports.

The Charlotte Observer reports the victim, Markovia LaShawn Durham, 29, was killed in Gastonia, N.C., around 8:45 p.m. Sunday. A police report stated information about the incident was “juvenile information shielded by law.”

The child’s grandmother, in whose house the shooting happened, said the child was playing with the firearm.

“He thought it was a toy,” she said.

After firing the shot, the child dropped the handgun and ran outside, according to local reports.
https://trib.al/oZLkVWg

And he fled the scene.

If only there was some way to prevent tragedies like this. :think:
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Re: Gun Control

#224

Post by raison de arizona »

Police: Toddler picks up gun, fires at Central Florida mother, killing her during Zoom call

ALTAMONTE SPRINGS, Fla. -- Altamonte Springs police say a young mother was fatally shot in the head by her child, a toddler, while on a Zoom call Wednesday.

Police say they were called to the Oaks of Spring Valley apartments off Wymore Road after getting a 911 call from someone who said they were on a Zoom call with 21-year-old Shamaya Lynn.

The person said they heard a loud noise, saw Lynn fall backwards and also saw a toddler in the background.

Paramedics rushed to the scene and tried to save Lynn but say she died of a gunshot wound to the head.

Investigators say it appears one of Lynn's two young children had found a loaded gun that was left unsecured in the apartment and shot her.
:snippity:
https://www.wesh.com/article/woman-shot ... a/37295707
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Re: Gun Control

#225

Post by Lani »

I can't to imagine the pain these children will have.
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