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trump (the former guy, defamer, insurrectionist, and rapist - $83M)

Abandon reality, all ye who enter here. *Democracy*Under*Threat*
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1551

Post by northland10 »

Why do we need things like CRT and conversations about race and diversity? I give you exhibit A. They have no clue what others are thinking and don't care.

The offensive logo (Chief Wahoo) was actually retired back in 2018.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1552

Post by much ado »

northland10 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:57 pm Why do we need things like CRT and conversations about race and diversity? I give you exhibit A. They have no clue what others are thinking and don't care.

The offensive logo (Chief Wahoo) was actually retired back in 2018.
And the University of Illinois retired Chief Illiniwek in 2007.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1553

Post by chancery »

Kendra appropriately called out Trump for acting like a jerk.

However, the issue of how to refer to Native Americans was made murky for me by an interesting passage in the introduction to 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus, a fascinating book.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1491:_New ... e_Columbus

I forget how the author resolved the issue (he might have deliberately varied the terms he used). In the course of discussing the problem he noted that, in numerous conversations with Native Americans, he had almost never heard them use any term other than "Indian."

I also note the following from the Smithsonian Museum of the American Indian
https://americanindian.si.edu/nk360/faq/did-you-know
What is the correct terminology: American Indian, Indian, Native American, or Native?

All of these terms are acceptable. The consensus, however, is that whenever possible, Native people prefer to be called by their specific tribal name. In the United States, Native American has been widely used but is falling out of favor with some groups, and the terms American Indian or indigenous American are preferred by many Native people.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1554

Post by Resume18 »

Kendra wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:43 pm https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-vqyebp9w96
I'll be meeting with some of her opponents in Bedminster next week and will be making my decision on who to endorse in the next few months. JUST ONE CANDIDATE. Thank you!
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1555

Post by raison de arizona »

Oh barf.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1556

Post by Gregg »

Kendra wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:36 pm https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-nrx5j9rfrg0
Can anybody believe that the Cleveland Indians, a storied and cherished baseball franchise since taking the name in 1915, are changing their name to the Guardians? Such a disgrace, and I guarantee that the people who are most angry about it are the many Indians of our Country. Wouldn’t it be an honor to have a team named the Cleveland Indians, and wouldn’t it be disrespectful to rip that name and logo off of those jerseys? The people of Cleveland cannot be thrilled and I, as a FORMER baseball fan, cannot believe things such as this are happening. A small group of people, with absolutely crazy ideas and policies, is forcing these changes to destroy our culture and heritage. At some point, the people will not take it anymore!

Aside from the racial slur, Native Americans weren't thrilled with Cleveland, either. :rotflmao:
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1557

Post by raison de arizona »

It’s not even 10am yet and all the lemmings are already lining up.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1558

Post by RTH10260 »

At least it will not be raining and freezing if they miss the busses that ought to bring them back to the car parks :lol:
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1559

Post by noblepa »

Gregg wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:40 am
Kendra wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:36 pm https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news/news-nrx5j9rfrg0
Can anybody believe that the Cleveland Indians, a storied and cherished baseball franchise since taking the name in 1915, are changing their name to the Guardians? Such a disgrace, and I guarantee that the people who are most angry about it are the many Indians of our Country. Wouldn’t it be an honor to have a team named the Cleveland Indians, and wouldn’t it be disrespectful to rip that name and logo off of those jerseys? The people of Cleveland cannot be thrilled and I, as a FORMER baseball fan, cannot believe things such as this are happening. A small group of people, with absolutely crazy ideas and policies, is forcing these changes to destroy our culture and heritage. At some point, the people will not take it anymore!

Aside from the racial slur, Native Americans weren't thrilled with Cleveland, either. :rotflmao:
I don't know how Indians outside of Ohio feel about the name change, but one major native American organization of Great Lakes tribes praised the change. I can't find the article that mentions the name of the organization.

There may be some American Indians who don't care one way or the other, but I can't imagine any of them being angry about the change.

It is the diehard, mostly white Cleveland Indians fans who will be upset.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1560

Post by Slim Cognito »

It is the diehard, mostly white Cleveland Indians fans who will be upset.
And five years from now, they'll have all gotten over it. Well, the semi-sane ones.

I guess this why I'm liberal commie scum. If somebody tells me something I said or did offends them, and it's no skin off my nose to change my behavior, what's the BFD?
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1561

Post by northland10 »

RTH10260 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:00 pm At least it will not be raining and freezing if they miss the busses that ought to bring them back to the car parks :lol:
Crap.. that's a helluva long ride to get to a car park in the US. We ain't got none. Maybe they have them in Mexico so not far from AZ, but all the Tumpists are going to be mad when Mexico builds a huge wall to keep them idiot Americans and their diseases out of Mexico.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1562

Post by zekeb »

noblepa wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:11 pm I don't know how Indians outside of Ohio feel about the name change, but one major native American organization of Great Lakes tribes praised the change. I can't find the article that mentions the name of the organization.

There may be some American Indians who don't care one way or the other, but I can't imagine any of them being angry about the change.

It is the diehard, mostly white Cleveland Indians fans who will be upset.
All they'll remember is that it happened under Joe's administration.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1563

Post by raison de arizona »

RTH10260 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:00 pm At least it will not be raining and freezing if they miss the busses that ought to bring them back to the car parks :lol:
Well, it is rainy, hot, and humid. So everything BUT freezing. I’d drive past, but I’d rather have a root canal.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1564

Post by MN-Skeptic »

raison de arizona wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:14 pm
RTH10260 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:00 pm At least it will not be raining and freezing if they miss the busses that ought to bring them back to the car parks :lol:
Well, it is rainy, hot, and humid. So everything BUT freezing. I’d drive past, but I’d rather have a root canal.
It's being held at the Arizona Federal Theater in downtown Phoenix. Looking at Google maps right now, the streets right around that block are closed off and traffic is heavy in the area. It's a good time to avoid downtown Phoenix.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1565

Post by northland10 »

zekeb wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:01 pm
noblepa wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:11 pm I don't know how Indians outside of Ohio feel about the name change, but one major native American organization of Great Lakes tribes praised the change. I can't find the article that mentions the name of the organization.

There may be some American Indians who don't care one way or the other, but I can't imagine any of them being angry about the change.

It is the diehard, mostly white Cleveland Indians fans who will be upset.
All they'll remember is that it happened under Joe's administration.
Even though the decision to actually change the name was made in December 2020, during Trump's admin.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1566

Post by neonzx »

Slim Cognito wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:14 pm
It is the diehard, mostly white Cleveland Indians fans who will be upset.
And five years from now, they'll have all gotten over it. Well, the semi-sane ones.

I guess this why I'm liberal commie scum. If somebody tells me something I said or did offends them, and it's no skin off my nose to change my behavior, what's the BFD?
I'm already okay with it -- it just took 24-hours to process. I'm C-town born, so I needed a minute/or a day..
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1567

Post by noblepa »

northland10 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:59 pm
zekeb wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:01 pm
noblepa wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:11 pm I don't know how Indians outside of Ohio feel about the name change, but one major native American organization of Great Lakes tribes praised the change. I can't find the article that mentions the name of the organization.

There may be some American Indians who don't care one way or the other, but I can't imagine any of them being angry about the change.

It is the diehard, mostly white Cleveland Indians fans who will be upset.
All they'll remember is that it happened under Joe's administration.
Even though the decision to actually change the name was made in December 2020, during Trump's admin.
They still refer to the free cell phones given to low-income people by the government as "Obama phones", even though the program was begun during the Bush (43) administration, and not cancelled by The Former Guy.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1568

Post by Foggy »

I call them pissosito phones. :crazy:
Out from under. :thumbsup:
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1569

Post by northland10 »

Trump and his fans lament losing history and heritage over the changing of the Cleveland name. How many things has Trump torn down to build his own tower, or renamed it to his own name?
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1570

Post by chancery »

You might have been thinking of places like the lovely Old Post Office Building in DC, or the vineyard he bought and renamed in Virginia, installing the false historical marker for a non-existent battle at the "River of Blood." Or various golf clubs.

But for this life-long New Yorker, what first came to mind was the wonderful Bonwit Teller building on Fifth Avenue, designed by Warren & Wetmore, architects of Grand Central Terminal, and demolished to build the loathsome Trump Tower.

There was a comforting presence to Bonwit (I have an idea we used to refer to it as "Bonwits") that I miss. The shopping bags were iconic.
It was the kind of carriage trade store that catered to the old fashioned affluent, who didn't see any point in being ripped off, so its ground floor was a reliable source for reasonably-priced small presents. Tiffany's in NYC retains that quality, if you're careful.
As Bonwit Teller was prepared for demolition, preservationists urged Trump to save two artistic elements. A pair of 15-foot bas-relief sculptures, depicting nude women dancing with scarves, and a large nickel-plated grill, located over the store’s main entryway were promised to the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

Trump agreed to donate them to the Met as long as the costs and the ability to physically remove the Art Deco artifacts were not unreasonably expensive.

Trump surprised New York’s art community on June 5, 1980 when a demolition crew jackhammered the sculptures off of the building. In addition, the intricate grillwork was removed. The destruction drew a public outcry. The Met received no advance notice. (Forbes)
Also this:
And the promise to preserve the grillwork and reliefs? “On his orders, the demolition workers cut up the grillwork with acetylene torches,” wrote Harry Hurt III in The Lost Tycoon: The Many Lives of Donald J. Trump. Crews “jackhammered the friezes, dislodged them with crowbars, and pushed the remains inside the building, where they fell to the floor and shattered in a million pieces.”

The Trump Organization disputed these claims through a spokesperson named John Baron. (Newspapers later discovered that “John Baron” was Trump himself.) When asked about the grillwork, Trump told the Times “We don’t know what happened to it.” As for the bas reliefs, he said “[t]he merit of these stones was not great enough to justify the effort to save them.” It was a strange claim to make for two reasons. First, the estimated $9,000 required to save the reliefs was a drop in the bucket compared the $100 million in construction costs. Second, if the reliefs lacked artistic or historic merit, why would the Met have requested them in the first place? *** “The reliefs are as important as the sculptures on the Rockefeller building,” said Robert Miller, the gallery owner who originally assessed the reliefs. “They’ll never be made again.”(Secrets of Manhattan)
And then inevitably:
In what became a sadly typical turn of events, Trump cut corners everywhere he could and bullied those who stood in his way. To pour the foundations, Trump enlisted S&A Concrete, a known mob front for Paul Castellano and “Fat Tony” Salerno. He paid 200 illegal Polish immigrants as little as $4 an hour to work 12-hour days, 7 days a week. The so-called “Polish Brigade” worked without benefits, hard hats, and sometimes even homes – during the 1980 transit strike, many were forced to sleep at the construction site. Then there were the lawsuits. He sued the city for a tax abatement on the property. He sued one contractor for “total incompetence” and threatened to sue a labor lawyer for $100 million. (Secrets of Manhattan)
The firm provided no safety equipment, hard hats, googles, or masks, despite reports of asbestos. In 1983, several Polish workers filed suit against Trump, as the property’s owner, due to “horrid and terrible conditions” at the demolition site. After 15 years of litigation, Trump paid $1.4 million to the workers and settled the case. (Forbes)
Later that year, Trump told New York Magazine that the art [at Bonwit Teller] was “worthless” and the “Met didn’t want it.” He also boasted that the publicity was not all negative. “The morning after the [Bonwit Teller] story hit the front pages of the Times, I must have gotten two dozen calls from people who wanted apartments in Trump Tower. It was fantastic promotion.” (Forbes)
The quotations above were taken from a Forbes article, https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellis ... e-landmark, and a blog post,
https://secretsofmanhattan.wordpress.co ... -treasure/
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1571

Post by chancery »

I saw this just now on a blog:
Like Venus, the theory of plate tectonics is very beautiful and born out of the sea.

R. Trümpy, 2001
wut?

Turns out,
Rudolf Trümpy (16 August 1921 – 30 January 2009) was a Swiss geologist, who was born in the small Swiss town of Glarus. :snippity: His research mainly concentrated on alpine geology. However, he also published papers on extra-alpine regions like Greenland, the Montagne Noire and the Sahara.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Tr%C3%BCmpy
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1572

Post by SuzieC »

northland10 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:55 pm Trump and his fans lament losing history and heritage over the changing of the Cleveland name. How many things has Trump torn down to build his own tower, or renamed it to his own name?
And a butterfly sanctuary. He is a monster.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1573

Post by Kendra »

He's speaking now. Found one of the Phoenix news stations carrying it live on FB. Ten minutes in and he's still babbling about the election nonsense.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1574

Post by Gregg »

noblepa wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:11 pm
Gregg wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:40 am

Aside from the racial slur, Native Americans weren't thrilled with Cleveland, either. :rotflmao:
I don't know how Indians outside of Ohio feel about the name change, but one major native American organization of Great Lakes tribes praised the change. I can't find the article that mentions the name of the organization.

There may be some American Indians who don't care one way or the other, but I can't imagine any of them being angry about the change.

It is the diehard, mostly white Cleveland Indians fans who will be upset.
I haven't heard any Native Tribe or group say good things about the names in years. But, when Miami University first started talking about changing their teams from "Redskins" to "Redhawks", the actual Miami Tribe was at most neutral on it and quite a few of them said at the very least they didn't care.

The tribe is long gone from Ohio now, and I think they're in Oklahoma. I also think that a program exists for some of their kids to get scholarships to Miami. lot of my childhood friends went there, they call it "the Harvard of the Midwest" which it ain't but they're cute when the say so.
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Re: trump (the former guy)

#1575

Post by Kendra »

For those mildly curious, thread covering today's Big Lie speech.

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