Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

User avatar
tek
Posts: 4293
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:02 pm
Location: Lake Humidity, FL
Occupation: Damned if I know

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#176

Post by tek »

pipistrelle wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:07 pm
It could be me but already lame damage control seems lamer and lamer.
They're not even trying.
There's no way back
from there to here

User avatar
Slim Cognito
Posts: 8296
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:37 am

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#177

Post by Slim Cognito »

Forgive my cluelessness but are we talking about Biden damage control or trump damage control?
ImageImageImage x4

User avatar
Dolly
Posts: 14397
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#178

Post by Dolly »

pipistrelle wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:07 pm
It could be me but already lame damage control seems lamer and lamer.
Yes, I hope they use more rope.

If Giuliani was a Democrat, the RWNJ would be screaming about the Logan Act.

And Pompeo's statement:
"I do think if VP Biden behaved inappropriately...we need to get to the bottom of that"

Where the hell has he been and what has he been doing?
from Wikipedia
Michael Richard Pompeo (..born December 30, 1963) is an American politician and attorney who, since April 2018, has served as the 70th United States secretary of state. He is a former United States Army officer and was director of the Central Intelligence Agency from January 2017 until April 2018.

Pompeo was a member of the United States House of Representatives from 2011 to 2017, representing Kansas's 4th congressional district. He was a Kansas representative on the Republican National Committee and member of the Italian American Congressional Delegation. Pompeo is also a member of the Tea Party movement within the Republican Party.[3]

Member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Kansas's 4th district In Office; January 3, 2011 – January 23, 2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pompeo
Avatar by Tal Peleg Art of Makeup https://www.facebook.com/TalPelegMakeUp

User avatar
Kendra
Posts: 16266
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:53 am

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#179

Post by Kendra »

pipistrelle wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:07 pm
It could be me but already lame damage control seems lamer and lamer.
Me too.

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 40251
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#180

Post by Addie »

Cross-posting

Axios
Trump confirms he discussed Biden with Ukrainian president

President Trump confirmed to reporters on the White House South Lawn Sunday that he discussed Joe Biden and his son during a phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on July 25.
"The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, with largely corruption — all of the corruption taking place — largely the fact that we don't want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine and Ukraine has got a lot of problems. The new president is saying that he's going to be able to rid the country of corruption, and I said that would be a great thing, we had a great conversation."
Why it matters: Trump said on Friday that "it doesn't matter" what he discussed with Zelensky, but appeared to be more forthcoming about the call on Sunday as reports in the New York Times, Washington Post and Wall Street Journal continue to reveal new details. Some have speculated that Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine until Zelensky promised to investigate Biden and his son, but the president was adamant on Sunday that there was "no quid pro quo."

Nonetheless, Democrats have demanded that Trump release the transcript of the phone call to prove he has nothing to hide. Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) said that the "existence of an explicit quid pro quo" isn't necessary, and that if Trump "demanded a foreign government do his political bidding, that’s when he crossed the critical threshold."

House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), meanwhile, said that if the allegations that Trump pressured the Ukrainian government to investigate Biden are true, then Democrats may have no other choice than to impeach him.

User avatar
pipistrelle
Posts: 8279
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:26 am

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#181

Post by pipistrelle »

Slim Cognito wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:20 pm
Forgive my cluelessness but are we talking about Biden damage control or trump damage control?
Individual-1.

User avatar
Dolly
Posts: 14397
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#182

Post by Dolly »

Giuliani, Fox's Roberts clash on appropriateness of Ukraine contacts

President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani sparred with “Fox News Sunday” guest host John Roberts on Sunday on the appropriateness of asking Ukrainian officials to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden.

Roberts played a clip of Giuliani telling CNN’s Chris Cuomo last week that he had never made such a request before later in the interview saying, “Of course I did.”

"The 'no' was obviously wrong. I corrected it immediately," Giuliani said on Sunday. "What they’re trying to say is I went there for a political mission to kind of get Joe Biden in trouble. Ridiculous. I went there as a lawyer defending his client."

Giuliani continued to insist the coverage should focus on what he claimed were suspicious business dealings involving the former vice president's son Hunter Biden instead of Trump and himself.

"I have all the contacts between Democrats and the Ukraine," Giuliani said. "When the rest of this comes out and we look at China and the $1.5 billion that the Biden family took out of China while that guy was negotiating for us, this will be a lot bigger than Spiro Agnew."

Pressed by Roberts on whether it was appropriate for him to be seeking dirt on Joe Biden while acting as a representative of the president, Giuliani responded, “That’s the way you characterize it.”

“That’s the way it appears to line up,” Roberts replied before Giuliani countered, “That’s the way the pro-Biden media lines it up.”

Despite Giuliani’s repeated implications that the firing of former General Prosecutor of Ukraine Viktor Shokin was politically motivated, Roberts said that he was dismissed amid corruption allegations and that his successor, Yuriy Lutsenko, found no evidence of wrongdoing on Hunter Biden’s part.

“This is going to get bigger and bigger, and everything I say I can prove,” Giuliani said.
https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-tal ... e-contacts
Avatar by Tal Peleg Art of Makeup https://www.facebook.com/TalPelegMakeUp

User avatar
Dolly
Posts: 14397
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#183

Post by Dolly »

Trump says he will consider releasing transcript of Ukraine call

President Trump told reporters on Sunday that he would consider releasing a transcript of his call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, which is said to be the subject of an intelligence community whistleblower complaint.

“We’ll make a determination about how to release it, releasing it, saying what we said,” Trump said in Houston, defending his conversation with Zelensky as “perfect.” His remarks came hours after the president suggested that he had discussed Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden during the call.

“The problem is, when you’re speaking to foreign leaders, you don’t want foreign leaders to feel that they shouldn’t be speaking openly,” Trump added. “And the same thing with an American president. You want them to be able to express themselves without knowing that every single word was going to be going out and going out all over the world.”

Trump reiterated that he would “talk” about releasing details from the call, adding, “but you have to be a little bit shy about doing that.” Trump went on to say he knows a lot of people are listening on his phone calls, including “intelligence people,” but that he gives them permission to do so.
<SNIP>
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... kraine-cal
Avatar by Tal Peleg Art of Makeup https://www.facebook.com/TalPelegMakeUp

User avatar
Tiredretiredlawyer
Posts: 9933
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 2:56 pm
Location: Animal Planet
Occupation: Permanent probationary slave to 1 dog, 1 cat, and 1 horse, 4 granddogs, and one grandcat.

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#184

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ine-228151
Trump Didn’t Bribe Ukraine. It’s Actually Worse Than That.
Mislabeling what the president has done could make impeachment more difficult to achieve.


Pursuing criminal cases that won’t stand legal scrutiny, or arguing that Trump has violated a criminal statute, risks undermining that goal.

First, it gives the false impression that this is something the criminal justice system can deal with. But the criminal system is not built to handle misconduct by a president who is acting corruptly through the use of his immense constitutional powers in this manner.

Second, it suggests that if critics can point out that it is not really bribery or extortion, then it is not a huge problem, which is not true. This is already happening, as allies of the president assert that there was no explicit quid pro quo.

Third, it may give the public a false impression about what happened. Impeachment in many respects is a political act, and that means Congress needs public support to pursue it. Anything that confuses or fails to persuade the public is therefore counterproductive.

Finally, it understates the magnitude of the alleged misconduct. Labeling Trump’s alleged conduct as “bribery” or “extortion” cheapens what is alleged to have occurred and does not capture what makes it wrongful. It’s not a crime—it’s a breach of the president’s duty not to use the powers of the presidency to benefit himself. And he invited a foreign nation to influence the 2020 election on the heels of a nearly three-year investigation that proved Russia had tried to influence the last presidential election.

No one should expect law enforcement to act if our elected representatives are unwilling to do so.
A 19th Amendment Centennial Moment:
The 19th Amendment was first introduced to Congress in 1878, yet it was not approved by Congress until 1919 – 41 years later.
- https://legaldictionary.net/19th-amendment/

User avatar
Dolly
Posts: 14397
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#185

Post by Dolly »

I keep wondering about this.
Orlylicious wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:07 pm
.......
Trump’s communications with foreign leader are part of whistleblower complaint that spurred standoff between spy chief and Congress, former officials say
By Greg Miller, Ellen Nakashima and Shane Harris
September 18, 2019 at 8:56 p.m. EDT

The whistleblower complaint that has triggered a tense showdown between the U.S. intelligence community and Congress involves President Trump’s communications with a foreign leader, according to two former U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

Trump’s interaction with the foreign leader included a “promise” that was regarded as so troubling that it prompted an official in the U.S. intelligence community to file a formal whistleblower complaint with the inspector general for the intelligence community, said the officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

It was not immediately clear which foreign leader Trump was speaking with or what he pledged to deliver, but his direct involvement in the matter has not been previously disclosed. It raises new questions about the president’s handling of sensitive information and may further strain his relationship with U.S. spy agencies. One former official said the communication was a phone call.
<SNIP>
Lots more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html
Avatar by Tal Peleg Art of Makeup https://www.facebook.com/TalPelegMakeUp

User avatar
Foggy
Posts: 30357
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: District Court of Bun-Dogs
Occupation: Ugly bag of mostly water

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#186

Post by Foggy »

I keep thinking, we don't really know it was a promise to the president of the Ukraine. Everybody is assuming that's who it was, and that the promise had something to do with Joe Biden. But that hasn't been totally confirmed yet, AFAIK.

And since Twitler is going along with it, I suspect he's using misdirection and misinformation again. If the whistle-blower report is really about something else, he'd love to make it all about Biden and the Ukraine.

:think: :confused:
For more information, read it again.

(Fogbow on PayPal)

User avatar
Turtle
Posts: 3622
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:27 pm
Occupation: SPACE FORCE COMMANDER

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#187

Post by Turtle »

It won't be long before most people believe the whistle-blower complaint was about Biden.

TexasFilly
Posts: 20360
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:52 pm

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#188

Post by TexasFilly »

I think there's much more to the story. Like the intelligence part. Sure, calls between a (normal) president and foreign leaders might be confidential, but I don't see this as highly classified information. So, I think there's more there. That thought is bolstered by Trump now "agreeing" to release the readout (I doubt he will in its entirety).
I love the poorly educated!!!

Kevin McCarthy: Paul Ryan playing with a head injury -- Jon Lovett

User avatar
Slim Cognito
Posts: 8296
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:37 am

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#189

Post by Slim Cognito »

Dolly wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:30 pm
Trump says he will consider releasing transcript of Ukraine call

President Trump told reporters on Sunday that he would consider releasing a transcript of his call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, which is said to be the subject of an intelligence community whistleblower complaint.
...
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... kraine-cal
Do I see a Sharpie-written transcription on yellow legal pad in our future?
ABBC3_SPOILER_SHOW
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
ImageImageImage x4

User avatar
Slim Cognito
Posts: 8296
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:37 am

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#190

Post by Slim Cognito »

Dolly wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:24 pm
Giuliani, Fox's Roberts clash on appropriateness of Ukraine contacts
...

“This is going to get bigger and bigger, and everything I say I can prove,” Giuliani said.
https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-tal ... e-contacts
If Rudy can already prove the Bidens are criminals, what do they need Ukraine for?
ImageImageImage x4

User avatar
SLQ
Posts: 3521
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:33 am

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#191

Post by SLQ »

Dolly wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:24 pm
Giuliani, Fox's Roberts clash on appropriateness of Ukraine contacts

President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani sparred with “Fox News Sunday” guest host John Roberts on Sunday on the appropriateness of asking Ukrainian officials to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden.

Roberts played a clip of Giuliani telling CNN’s Chris Cuomo last week that he had never made such a request before later in the interview saying, “Of course I did.”

"The 'no' was obviously wrong. I corrected it immediately," Giuliani said on Sunday. "What they’re trying to say is I went there for a political mission to kind of get Joe Biden in trouble. Ridiculous. I went there as a lawyer defending his client."

Giuliani continued to insist the coverage should focus on what he claimed were suspicious business dealings involving the former vice president's son Hunter Biden instead of Trump and himself.

"I have all the contacts between Democrats and the Ukraine," Giuliani said. "When the rest of this comes out and we look at China and the $1.5 billion that the Biden family took out of China while that guy was negotiating for us, this will be a lot bigger than Spiro Agnew."

Pressed by Roberts on whether it was appropriate for him to be seeking dirt on Joe Biden while acting as a representative of the president, Giuliani responded, “That’s the way you characterize it.”

“That’s the way it appears to line up,” Roberts replied before Giuliani countered, “That’s the way the pro-Biden media lines it up.”

Despite Giuliani’s repeated implications that the firing of former General Prosecutor of Ukraine Viktor Shokin was politically motivated, Roberts said that he was dismissed amid corruption allegations and that his successor, Yuriy Lutsenko, found no evidence of wrongdoing on Hunter Biden’s part.

“This is going to get bigger and bigger, and everything I say I can prove,” Giuliani said.
https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-tal ... e-contacts
Defending Trump against what???
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try."
-- Yoda

User avatar
SuzieC
Posts: 1304
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:27 pm
Location: No longer a Swing State Central
Occupation: Attorney since 1977. Litigator for 33 years. For 8 years so far Admin Law Judge for 3 state agencies.

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#192

Post by SuzieC »

Foggy wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:02 pm
I keep thinking, we don't really know it was a promise to the president of the Ukraine. Everybody is assuming that's who it was, and that the promise had something to do with Joe Biden. But that hasn't been totally confirmed yet, AFAIK.

And since Twitler is going along with it, I suspect he's using misdirection and misinformation again. If the whistle-blower report is really about something else, he'd love to make it all about Biden and the Ukraine.

:think: :confused:
In my opinion, they are using misdirection and admitting to the Trump call with President of Ukraine because the real story is much worse. Call was Trump and Putin wherein Trump promised Putin quid pro quo if Putin threatened Ukraine if it didn't dig up dirt on Bidens.

Grumpy Old Guy
Posts: 2511
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:24 am
Occupation: Retired, unemployed, never a lawyer

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#193

Post by Grumpy Old Guy »

My immediate thought at the time was it probably was Putin.

User avatar
pipistrelle
Posts: 8279
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:26 am

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#194

Post by pipistrelle »

I agree there's more there, and Giuliani's performances are sealing that deal for me.

User avatar
Suranis
Posts: 17911
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:04 am

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#195

Post by Suranis »

We have a resounding :winner: A journalist may have joined the dots on the whistleblower complaint.
Trump speaks w/ Putin: 7/31/19

Trump requests list of top US spies: 8/3/19

Russia publishes name & biography of a man living near DC: 9/10/19

Trump says we should not use foreign spies: 9/10/19

#WhistleblowerComplaint is filed re: alarming “promise” to foreign leader: 8/12/19
Dot-joining thread here.
The difference between the Middle Ages, and the Age of the Internet, is that in the Middle Ages no-one thought the Earth was flat.

User avatar
pipistrelle
Posts: 8279
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:26 am

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#196

Post by pipistrelle »

Suranis wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:54 am
We have a resounding :winner: A journalist may have joined the dots on the whistleblower complaint.
Trump speaks w/ Putin: 7/31/19

Trump requests list of top US spies: 8/3/19

Russia publishes name & biography of a man living near DC: 9/10/19

Trump says we should not use foreign spies: 9/10/19

#WhistleblowerComplaint is filed re: alarming “promise” to foreign leader: 8/12/19
Dot-joining thread here.
This makes a lot more sense from an alarming national security perspective.

User avatar
fierceredpanda
Posts: 2786
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:04 pm
Location: BAR Headquarters - Turn left past the picture of King George III
Occupation: Criminal defense attorney - I am not your lawyer, and my posts do not constitute legal advice

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#197

Post by fierceredpanda »

I can't find it now, but someone on my Twitter feed made a very good point that the way this has played out has, in some ways, gone some distance to justify why Edward Snowden released what he released in the way that he released it. Of course there's a lot of just criticism* of what Snowden did, but the easiest response has always been that if he had that big of a problem with what the NSA was doing, he should have raised those concerns through the proper channels. Well, how are those proper channels working out? Again, I'm not defending the man, but you can kind of see why someone in the Intelligence Community would not trust their superiors to handle whistleblowing in the manner prescribed by law, since ultimately the whole thing will come down to whether POTUS deems the material fit for Congressional consumption, apparently.

Given these events, what exactly do we expect would happen if Trump decided to order the NSA to actively spy on, say, Elizabeth Warren's campaign? Whistleblower complaints will go nowhere, as we have seen. Mass resignations will not happen. And a lot of NSA is military, who are duty-bound to obey the orders of their Commander-in-Chief. So it's back to the 1970s with us, and the national security apparatus being weaponized against domestic political opponents. If only someone had seen this coming!

*I've had a change of heart re: Snowden, from a moderate sympathizer to a firm believer that he's a hopeless naif who was manipulated by an unprincipled glory-seeking journalist (Glenn Greenwald) to the advantage of Russia. I think my posts early in my tenure here bear that out, but I wanted to be fully transparent that I have gone back and forth on this issue. And I remain deeply skeptical that there are any meaningful checks on the Intelligence Community at all. Congressional oversight has been rendered meaningless. All we're left with are the scruples of individual human beings, who can be replaced with more pliant folks at a moment's notice. I'm not reassured.
"There's no play here. There's no angle. There's no champagne room. I'm not a miracle worker, I'm a janitor. The math on this is simple; the smaller the mess, the easier it is for me to clean up." -Michael Clayton


User avatar
Slim Cognito
Posts: 8296
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:37 am

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#198

Post by Slim Cognito »

fierceredpanda wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:17 am
I can't find it now, but someone on my Twitter feed made a very good point that the way this has played out has, in some ways, gone some distance to justify why Edward Snowden released what he released in the way that he released it. Of course there's a lot of just criticism* of what Snowden did, but the easiest response has always been that if he had that big of a problem with what the NSA was doing, he should have raised those concerns through the proper channels. Well, how are those proper channels working out? .....
Mind blown.

That does put things in a different light.
ImageImageImage x4

TexasFilly
Posts: 20360
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:52 pm

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#199

Post by TexasFilly »

Except that Snowden was doing his dirty work during the Obama Administration. By all accounts, this is the first time a whistleblower complaint has been kept from Congress.
I love the poorly educated!!!

Kevin McCarthy: Paul Ryan playing with a head injury -- Jon Lovett

User avatar
Suranis
Posts: 17911
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:04 am

Re: Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

#200

Post by Suranis »

Yep. This is a lawless administration. Obama was about Rule of law.

ANd Snowden would not have presurised WaPo to publish without checking out his information if he was all about the truth.

Plus, anyone that has not made the connection between Snowdens laptops of info and the hacking of the 2016 Election hasn't been thinking about it. It's very possible that he is directly responsible for Trump, "pure motivations" or not. Needless to say, the guy can rot for all I care.
The difference between the Middle Ages, and the Age of the Internet, is that in the Middle Ages no-one thought the Earth was flat.

Post Reply

Return to “Impeachment”