Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

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Addie
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#26

Post by Addie »

Slate
The Democrats’ Silent Majority

The debate spent three hours ignoring women’s issues. ...

This was partly the fault of the ABC moderators. They shepherded lengthy and illuminating segments on climate change, anti-black racism, immigration, and gun violence—and overall, they did a much better job than the previous two sets of debate moderators. But they didn’t ask any of the candidates to speak on the Republican Party’s coordinated assault on women’s health care access, the economic strain caused by our lack of universal paid parental leave, or the looming threat of a Supreme Court poised to overturn or substantially weaken Roe v. Wade.

The omission felt particularly glaring in light of the Trump administration’s recent introduction of a domestic gag rule—a policy that denies federal family planning dollars to any health care facility that so much as refers patients for abortion care. Thursday’s debate took place just days after Planned Parenthood, which has been forced to forgo the up to $60 million it’s accepted every year to offer subsidized contraception, announced that it would close two Ohio clinics amid recent state and federal funding rollbacks.

In post-debate tweets, Sen. Kamala Harris and former Rep. Beto O’Rourke both scolded the moderators for neglecting to ask a question about abortion. But there’s no reason why either of them couldn’t have brought it up on their own. Sen. Cory Booker somehow managed to pivot a question about his vegan diet into an appeal for better health care for veterans. At a moment when states in the South and Midwest are outright banning abortion, when Republican legislators are floating the idea of the death penalty for women who terminate their pregnancies, when conservative news outlets—inspired by actual lawmakers—are suggesting that women with life-threatening ectopic pregnancies simply wait them out until they naturally miscarry, anyone on the debate stage would have been forgiven for changing the subject from their own “professional setbacks” to women’s lives.

Viewers would have thanked them for it. Public support for abortion rights is higher than it’s been in two decades, and Trump-era incursions on women’s rights have Democrats raring to vote. In a recent Supermajority/PerryUndem poll of likely 2020 voters, 78 percent of Democratic women and 74 percent of Democratic men said the recent abortion bans in Alabama, Georgia, and elsewhere were motivating them to “[make] sure I vote in the 2020 elections.”

With that in mind, and considering the fact that our current president is an accused rapist, it would have been nice to have someone talking about gender on the stage. Trump’s election set into motion an unprecedented upswelling of women’s political participation, yielding the largest-ever national protest, record gains in legislative representation, and a presidential approval rating gender gap twice as large as it’s ever been in the three decades pollsters have been measuring it. When the Democratic candidates look into the camera during a debate, addressing voters who desperately want to beat Trump, it’s women they’re talking to.

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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#27

Post by Addie »

The Atlantic
Just Don’t Call It Abortion

The 2020 Democratic presidential candidates have gone further in embracing abortion rights than ever before. But they still hide behind euphemism.


Former Vice President Joe Biden is the best evidence of how far to the left Democrats have moved on the abortion issue. Throughout his career in the Senate, which began shortly after the Supreme Court’s ruling on Roe, Biden stuck to a moderate’s line: While he understood that abortion may need to be legal, he felt personally uncomfortable with it, he said. He consistently voted for the Hyde Amendment, which prevents the federal government from paying for most abortions through its public programs.

After facing significant criticism on the campaign trail this year, however, Biden reversed his position, saying he would work to repeal the Hyde Amendment as president. On the debate stage last night, he reaffirmed his new stance, calling for the legislative codification of the principles laid out in Roe. “The public is already there,” he said. “Things have changed.”

Biden also vowed to campaign against legislators in states such as Ohio and Alabama, which have passed restrictive abortion laws. “Reproductive rights are a constitutional right, and, in fact, every woman should have that right,” he said. Notably missing from his impassioned answer, however, was the word abortion. Other candidates’ answers followed directly in this spirit, diverging little on matters of policy.

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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#28

Post by Sugar Magnolia »

Addie wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:14 pm
The Atlantic
Just Don’t Call It Abortion

The 2020 Democratic presidential candidates have gone further in embracing abortion rights than ever before. But they still hide behind euphemism.


Former Vice President Joe Biden is the best evidence of how far to the left Democrats have moved on the abortion issue. Throughout his career in the Senate, which began shortly after the Supreme Court’s ruling on Roe, Biden stuck to a moderate’s line: While he understood that abortion may need to be legal, he felt personally uncomfortable with it, he said. He consistently voted for the Hyde Amendment, which prevents the federal government from paying for most abortions through its public programs.

After facing significant criticism on the campaign trail this year, however, Biden reversed his position, saying he would work to repeal the Hyde Amendment as president. On the debate stage last night, he reaffirmed his new stance, calling for the legislative codification of the principles laid out in Roe. “The public is already there,” he said. “Things have changed.”

Biden also vowed to campaign against legislators in states such as Ohio and Alabama, which have passed restrictive abortion laws. “Reproductive rights are a constitutional right, and, in fact, every woman should have that right,” he said. Notably missing from his impassioned answer, however, was the word abortion. Other candidates’ answers followed directly in this spirit, diverging little on matters of policy.
I don't equate "reproductive rights" with "abortion rights" anyway and I fall squarely on the side of calling it reproductive rights, so not saying the word abortion just sounds like a silly nit to me. Birth control is also reproductive rights and is under attack along the same lines that abortion is. One of my daughters has been on the pill since she was 14 for a medical condition that has nothing to do with pregnancy but we went through a period of time that our insurance was fighting us every step of the way to pay for it. She knows which drugstores to use that have pharmacists who will actually fill the damn thing, and she's changed doctors twice that I'm aware of to avoid the preaching about "birth control" from medical professionals who KNOW that's not why she's on the pill.

So yeah, I don't give a shit if you say abortion or not, but by all means fight for our reproductive rights tooth and nail.

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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#29

Post by Addie »

Agreed, Sug.
Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:24 pm

I don't equate "reproductive rights" with "abortion rights" anyway and I fall squarely on the side of calling it reproductive rights, so not saying the word abortion just sounds like a silly nit to me. Birth control is also reproductive rights and is under attack along the same lines that abortion is. One of my daughters has been on the pill since she was 14 for a medical condition that has nothing to do with pregnancy but we went through a period of time that our insurance was fighting us every step of the way to pay for it. She knows which drugstores to use that have pharmacists who will actually fill the damn thing, and she's changed doctors twice that I'm aware of to avoid the preaching about "birth control" from medical professionals who KNOW that's not why she's on the pill.

So yeah, I don't give a shit if you say abortion or not, but by all means fight for our reproductive rights tooth and nail.

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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#30

Post by Lani »

:yeah: If birth control is readily available, for many reasons in addition to pregnancy prevention, abortion is less likely to become necessary. But it's all about certain people believing that they have the right to control a woman's body.
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#31

Post by Volkonski »

Federal judge blocks Alabama's near-total abortion ban

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/29/politics ... index.html
A federal judge has blocked a controversial Alabama abortion bill that would block almost all abortions, calling it a "ban" that "contravenes clear Supreme Court precedent."

US District Judge Myron Thompson issued a preliminary injunction on Tuesday barring the Human Life Protection Act from taking effect until the court resolves the case in full. The law was slated to go into effect next month.

Thompson's decision to block the Alabama ban means that all of the state laws passed this year restricting early-stage abortions have been blocked from going into effect by the courts.

In the 17-page opinion, Thompson wrote that the state's abortion ban "violates the right of an individual to privacy, to make choices central to personal dignity and autonomy." Thompson also stated that the ban "diminishes the capacity of women to act in society, and to make reproductive decisions."
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#32

Post by Slim Cognito »

I can't believe we're talking about this again. When it popped up on my twitter feed this morning, I was certain it was an old article.

It's dated today.
Ohio bill orders doctors to ‘reimplant ectopic pregnancy’ or face 'abortion murder' charges
Ohio introduces one of the most extreme bills to date for a procedure that does not exist in medical science

A bill to ban abortion introduced in the Ohio state legislature requires doctors to “reimplant an ectopic pregnancy” into a woman’s uterus – a procedure that does not exist in medical science – or face charges of “abortion murder”.

This is the second time practising obstetricians and gynecologists have tried to tell the Ohio legislators that the idea is currently medically impossible.

...

“There is no procedure to reimplant an ectopic pregnancy,” said Dr Chris Zahn, vice-president of practice activities at the American College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. “It is not possible to move an ectopic pregnancy from a fallopian tube, or anywhere else it might have implanted, to the uterus,” he said.

“Reimplantation is not physiologically possible. Women with ectopic pregnancies are at risk for catastrophic hemorrhage and death in the setting of an ectopic pregnancy, and treating the ectopic pregnancy can certainly save a mom’s life,” said Zahn.
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#33

Post by neonzx »

Slim Cognito wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:32 am
I can't believe we're talking about this again. When it popped up on my twitter feed this morning, I was certain it was an old article.

It's dated today.
ABBC3_SPOILER_SHOW
David N Hackney MD, FACOG @DavidNHackney

Nov 19
The new Ohio HB413, p.184: To avoid criminal charges, including murder, for abortion, a physician must “…[attempt to] reimplant an ectopic pregnancy into the women’s uterus”

I don’t believe I’m typing this again but, that’s impossible.
We’ll all be going to jail
@ACOGAction

In reading through all the comments: Condolences to those who have had ectopics for whom HB413 may be particularly painful. Thank you for speaking out.

In addition to being bizarre, misogynistic & misinformed, “ectopic re-implantation” legislation is profoundly insensitive
adding,
ABBC3_SPOILER_SHOW
David N Hackney MD, FACOG @DavidNHackney

2nd time requesting: Please stop bashing the state of Ohio itself

In polls a majority of Ohioans still support repro rights. We’re gerrymandered & some extreme voices get attention, but it’s fundamentally counterproductive to attack our whole state. We’re all in this together!
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#34

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Business Insider
A Pennsylvania bill would require death certificates for fertilized eggs that never implant in the uterus

Anti-abortion lawmakers in Pennsylvania want to pass a bill that would require health providers to arrange burials or cremations for all of a person's "fetal remains," which under the lawmakers' terms, includes fertilized eggs that never implanted in the uterus.

But fertilized eggs must divide to become the ball of cells that implants in the uterus for a pregnancy to occur.

The proposed bill also means health providers would have to obtain death certificates for all fertilized, but not implanted, eggs, since in order to to obtain a burial permit, you first have to obtain a death certificate, Christine Castro, a staff attorney at the Pennsylvania-based Women's Law Project, told Vice. "The bill is written in a misleading way," she said.

If the bill, known as the "Pennsylvania Final Disposition of Fetal Remains Act," passes and isn't followed, it could result in a $50 to $300 fine or up to 30 days in prison for providers.

The problem is women, and even their doctors, can't track when or how many fertilized eggs don't implant in the uterus because those eggs typically dissolve in utero and are shed through a woman's menstrual lining every month, making them undetectable.

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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#35

Post by Slim Cognito »

Ninja'd again.

But let me add,

WTF is WRONG with these people?
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#36

Post by ZekeB »

A death certificate for something that never had a birth certificate? :think:
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#37

Post by fierceredpanda »

You know what? Fuck it. Let them pass these laws, let a ton of defense attorneys like me win acquittal after acquittal on impossibility defense (the much dreamed-of but rarely-applicable affirmative defense that I broke the law because it literally was not possible for me to comply with it), and then let those doctors sue the shit out of any prosecutor who fucking dares to bring such charges. Because while prosecutors may be immune in altogether too many instances of misconduct, I'm pretty damn sure that courts are going to take a dim view of charging doctors for failing to perform imaginary medical procedures (as in the proposed Ohio law) or generating death certificates for non-implanted zygotes (as in Pennsylvania).

Which is actually a long way of saying that you're gonna have a hard time finding lawyers dumb enough to prosecute these cases. Hell, Phill Kline, the former state AG in Kansas (hardly a bastion of pro-abortion sentiment) had his license yanked forever for being wildly overzealous in his pursuit of George Tiller.* So either they will sit on the books totally unused, or we'll end up with a lot of unethical scumbag prosecutors run out of the profession by regulators, and with hefty bills to pay on the way out. (Note to anyone thinking of following in Kline's footsteps: He was assigned $600,000 worth of costs for the disciplinary proceedings against him. So if you want to save yourself some money, just run your law license through a shredder. It's the same difference in the end.)

*Is it too much to suggest that Kline's involvement in that case was so over-the-top that an argument could be made that he was an accessory before the fact to Tiller's subsequent assassination? So be it. Fuck these people. Sorry, I'm extremely salty this morning. Isn't it remarkable that there's no hard-and-fast legal doctrine that says all laws must comport with, you know, established reality and scientific possibility?
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#38

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Slim Cognito wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:32 am
I can't believe we're talking about this again. When it popped up on my twitter feed this morning, I was certain it was an old article.

It's dated today.
Ohio bill orders doctors to ‘reimplant ectopic pregnancy’ or face 'abortion murder' charges
Ohio introduces one of the most extreme bills to date for a procedure that does not exist in medical science

A bill to ban abortion introduced in the Ohio state legislature requires doctors to “reimplant an ectopic pregnancy” into a woman’s uterus – a procedure that does not exist in medical science – or face charges of “abortion murder”.

This is the second time practising obstetricians and gynecologists have tried to tell the Ohio legislators that the idea is currently medically impossible.

...

“There is no procedure to reimplant an ectopic pregnancy,” said Dr Chris Zahn, vice-president of practice activities at the American College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. “It is not possible to move an ectopic pregnancy from a fallopian tube, or anywhere else it might have implanted, to the uterus,” he said.

“Reimplantation is not physiologically possible. Women with ectopic pregnancies are at risk for catastrophic hemorrhage and death in the setting of an ectopic pregnancy, and treating the ectopic pregnancy can certainly save a mom’s life,” said Zahn.
I have been fending off this one on facebook. Basically its a bill that was introduced as red meat for both sides base. The Guardian actually contacted a Pro-life group about it and were told that they hadn't completed reading the bill (its 700 pages long) and all their staff were out for thanksgiving and so would be able to provide any comment till next week at least. So even EEEEEVIIIIL Pro-lifers are distancing themselves from it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -pregnancy

In short its OUTRAAAAGE PORN that will die in committee but will have both side going rar rawr rar at one another. Its going nowhere and everyone knows it. It's Opium for the masses. just like that bill that's introduced in congress every year to declare Jesus the King of America. Call me if it gets to the floor, which it won't.
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#39

Post by pipistrelle »

Suranis wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:14 am
In short its OUTRAAAAGE PORN that will die in committee but will have both side going rar rawr rar at one another. Its going nowhere and everyone knows it. It's Opium for the masses. just like that bill that's introduced in congress every year to declare Jesus the King of America. Call me if it gets to the floor, which it won't.
I agree it's meant to set people off again against each other. We seem to be a self-destructive lot.

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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#40

Post by Suranis »

pipistrelle wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:23 am
I agree it's meant to set people off again against each other. We seem to be a self-destructive lot.
Because that surge of rage feels good, I suppose.
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#41

Post by Slim Cognito »

Knowing it won't pass muster, but still taking the time and resources to put it in writing, IS outrageous and insulting beyond words. So, yeah, I'm outraged. My life, my daughter's life and my granddaughters' lives aren't cannon fodder for the idiots on the right, literally or wishfully.
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#42

Post by fierceredpanda »

Slim Cognito wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:41 am
Knowing it won't pass muster, but still taking the time and resources to put it in writing, IS outrageous and insulting beyond words. So, yeah, I'm outraged. My life, my daughter's life and my granddaughters' lives aren't cannon fodder for the idiots on the right, literally or wishfully.
This. Also you don't see people who want OUTRAGE PORN on the other side proposing new laws mandating the death penalty for things people on the left don't like.

And no, my sometime joking about guillotines doesn't count, because I'm not actually proposing laws that would call for rich people to be executed. These assholes actually are proposing laws that would require doctors to be executed for doing their damn jobs.
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#43

Post by Suranis »

,,, and the majority of the Georgia Congress plus most Pro-life groups will tell them to pound sand. In the meantime they will have gotten free publicity and lots of outraged and hatefilled quotes from "liberals" to take into the election, where they will have conveniently forgotten to mention the context, while the libs will forget the pro-life groups who were also against this shit. Good scam, huh?

You have to be aware you are reacting exactly the way they want, especially with the self righteousness.
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#44

Post by Slim Cognito »

Suranis wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:00 am
,,, and the majority of the Georgia Congress plus most Pro-life groups will tell them to pound sand. In the meantime they will have gotten free publicity and lots of outraged and hatefilled quotes from "liberals" to take into the election, where they will have conveniently forgotten to mention the context, while the libs will forget the pro-life groups who were also against this shit. Good scam, huh?

You have to be aware you are reacting exactly the way they want, especially with the self righteousness.
Yeah, damn me for being concerned about women's health issues. It's not like we're people or anything.

Free publicity works both ways. If screaming this republican bullshit from the rooftops turns one republican woman into a democrat, then I say use it for all it's worth.

:roll:
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#45

Post by Suranis »

Thank you for avoiding discussing everything else I said in favour of a half sentence you can get... self righteous about. :-

THis is a shitty bill that they have no intention of becoming law. If you want to fall into the same tactics as the one that allowed trump to dominate the conversation over the last 5 year and control the media narrative, far be it for an eeeeeeviiiiill male to point out what your doing and stand in your way.

:lovestruck:
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#46

Post by Slim Cognito »

You call me self-righteous but I'm unreasonable for responding, as if whatever else you type justifies your insult. This discussion isn't worth the time I've already wasted on you. I won't make that mistake again.
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#47

Post by voxpopuluxe »

pipistrelle wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:23 am
Suranis wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:14 am
In short its OUTRAAAAGE PORN that will die in committee but will have both side going rar rawr rar at one another. Its going nowhere and everyone knows it. It's Opium for the masses. just like that bill that's introduced in congress every year to declare Jesus the King of America. Call me if it gets to the floor, which it won't.
I agree it's meant to set people off again against each other. We seem to be a self-destructive lot.
of course it’s meant to divide people. it’s a threat! it may be an idle threat but it is implicitly a state-sponsored threat against people’s lives. it seems pointless at best & cruel at worst to tell people that they can’t be angry at being threatened until the circumstances being actually happen.

and if you think the threat *is* idle & you’re congratulating yourself for being above it all, then maybe go do something else instead of mocking people who are frightened by it
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#48

Post by pipistrelle »

voxpopuluxe wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:40 pm
pipistrelle wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:23 am
Suranis wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:14 am
In short its OUTRAAAAGE PORN that will die in committee but will have both side going rar rawr rar at one another. Its going nowhere and everyone knows it. It's Opium for the masses. just like that bill that's introduced in congress every year to declare Jesus the King of America. Call me if it gets to the floor, which it won't.
I agree it's meant to set people off again against each other. We seem to be a self-destructive lot.
of course it’s meant to divide people. it’s a threat! it may be an idle threat but it is implicitly a state-sponsored threat against people’s lives. it seems pointless at best & cruel at worst to tell people that they can’t be angry at being threatened until the circumstances being actually happen.

and if you think the threat *is* idle & you’re congratulating yourself for being above it all, then maybe go do something else instead of mocking people who are frightened by it
I didn’t do any mocking. Or self congratulating. Or tell anyone what to think. I do believe it’s intended to divide.

:confused:

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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#49

Post by p0rtia »

Suranis wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:58 am
Thank you for avoiding discussing everything else I said in favour of a half sentence you can get... self righteous about. :-

THis is a shitty bill that they have no intention of becoming law. If you want to fall into the same tactics as the one that allowed trump to dominate the conversation over the last 5 year and control the media narrative, far be it for an eeeeeeviiiiill male to point out what your doing and stand in your way.

:lovestruck:
This is pretty offensive, y'now? Respectfully, it seems like you're confusing posters having a dialogue on the FB with whoever it is you are so pissed off at.
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Re: Issues 2020: Reproductive Rights

#50

Post by Addie »

Vox
The new bill that would create a crime called “abortion murder,” explained

It could be the future of the anti-abortion movement.


Ohio legislators last month introduced a measure that would, if passed, become the most restrictive abortion law in the country.

The bill creates a new felony called “abortion murder,” making people who have or perform abortions subject to life in prison. It also includes a provision suggesting that doctors should attempt to reimplant an ectopic pregnancy in a patient’s uterus, a procedure medical experts say is not possible with current medical technology.

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