Trump's Trade Follicy

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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#476

Post by kate520 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:21 am

Righteous rant, Mikedunford, and lol funny, too. :bighug: :clap:


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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#477

Post by RVInit » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:38 am

kate520 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:21 am
Righteous rant, Mikedunford, and lol funny, too. :bighug: :clap:
:yeah: :thumbs:


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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#478

Post by Sam the Centipede » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:20 am

I think you're overly pessimistic on the time it will take to heal relationships at the level of discussions between people and negotiations for the future, but it will take longer to undo damage in trading, investment and manufacturing relations. Factories that have been built in other countries because the international owners were scared away from the US by Trump's craziness won't be uprooted and moved to the US when Trump goes.



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#479

Post by Addie » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:55 pm

CBC: Vice-President Pence says NAFTA deal possible in several weeks

'We think we are close, we are encouraged at the progress of our negotiations,' Pence says


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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#480

Post by Lupin » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:52 am

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:20 am
I think you're overly pessimistic on the time it will take to heal relationships at the level of discussions between people and negotiations for the future, but it will take longer to undo damage in trading, investment and manufacturing relations. Factories that have been built in other countries because the international owners were scared away from the US by Trump's craziness won't be uprooted and moved to the US when Trump goes.
Considering how many hot issues you guys (Americans) have to deal with, it is not surprising, but one issue which I haven't see much covered in US media is the unrelenting war conducted by the US right-wing against the European Union, something which largely predates the Trump regime but has become more obvious in the last couple of years.

Clearly, the American right-wing & allied business interests have found the societal and economic models of the EU (ranging from economic policies to consumer protections to liberal values, etc, etc) a threat to their own interests, or ideology, because they have engaged in an unrelenting war to undo them and more generally bring us in line with your own dystopic society. From Monsanto to Breivik's manifesto, the GAFA companies policies to the export of nazi propaganda printed in the US, to manipulating Brexit and sabotaging the British NHS, to interfering in the French and Italian election, etc, etc, once one pulls the curtain, all trails lead back to the US. Examples are too many to be exhaustively listed here, and besides, thar's only the ones we know about.

It has been rather a shock to see the dawning realization in otherwise experienced politicians like Ms Merkel or M Macron that their traditional ally the US of A has become, for all intents and purposes, their new enemy. Britain has virtually fallen already, but France and Germany haven't (although the latter is in a weaker position right now) and judging from a few recent court decisions , I expect American companies doing business in the EU will be paying a price for this.

Needless to say, Trump has exacerbated the problem, given it a universally loathed face, even though as I said, the problem largely predates him. He just makes it easier to hate American, and unlike in the 60s where the animus against Nixon was more than counterbalanced by the Woodstock generation, today, there is nothing of the kind to restore America's image.

The reason I'm writing this is because I don't think the extent to which your country is now seen as the enemy in vast swathes of the world is well understood by your media, and certainly not by your people. You're the odious neighbor who throws garbage over the fence and defecates on his lawn. Of course, business will go on... Even during the depth of the Cold War, we (in France) did business with the Soviets... And our spooks will continue to work hand in hand with your spooks on security matters... And the world can't function without the US... There is no such thing as a pariah in global politics (look at Iran). But like the proverbial elephant in the room, don't think it's not there -- and things will never be as they once were, at least for a long time.



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#481

Post by Sam the Centipede » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:54 am

Thanks Arsène, and welcome here. I enjoyed your contributions at Doc C's where birthers didn't seem to appreciate that your qualifications as a natively Frsnch-speaking lawyer gave your words much more weight than their idiotic anc fantastical ravings! :thumbs:

Yes, I was guilty of ignoring the anti-EU bias. Recent events - Trump's election, Brexit, Putin's meddling - exemplify the rise of disruptive politics. Voters are being persuaded to vote for incoherent platforms that either go against their best interests or are wholly unrealistic.

And disruption is exactly what the EU is against! Its role was and is to provide pan-European stability, a general peaceful unity, often through conformity. Brexit is a severe crack in that dream and the EU must also weather the rise of disruptors in its more recent members, such as Hungary.

Macron is both an example of and a victim of disruptors. (Health warning: my knowledge of France's politics is very limited!) He came in on a wave of a sentiment of "a plague on all their houses" against the established political parties and their familiar candidates spouting familiar tropes and never delivering. But now Macron cannot deliver a promised land and perhaps his lack of experience also shows.

Brexit is clearly in the US right wing's interest. Obviously it's disruptive. It also allows the US to exploit the UK's impending weakness, to force it to drop trade barriers that impose significantly higher standards on imported food products, such as bans on hormone-treated beef, chlorine-washed chicken, etc. And with a bunch of ineffectual clowns in the UK government, and its worsening economic problems, the UK won't be able to resist.

Both the EU and the UK need Brexit reversed. Unfortunately UK politicians are too weak and cowardly and EU and EU countries seem unwilling to get their hands dirty by weighing in, ignoring the impact on their own countries.



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#482

Post by Carl von Ossietsky » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:41 am

Thank you, Sam and Lupin!



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#483

Post by Lupin » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:39 am

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:54 am
Thanks Arsène, and welcome here. I enjoyed your contributions at Doc C's where birthers didn't seem to appreciate that your qualifications as a natively Frsnch-speaking lawyer gave your words much more weight than their idiotic anc fantastical ravings! :thumbs:
Thank you muchly!
Sam the Centipede wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:54 am
Yes, I was guilty of ignoring the anti-EU bias. Recent events - Trump's election, Brexit, Putin's meddling - exemplify the rise of disruptive politics. Voters are being persuaded to vote for incoherent platforms that either go against their best interests or are wholly unrealistic.

And disruption is exactly what the EU is against! Its role was and is to provide pan-European stability, a general peaceful unity, often through conformity. Brexit is a severe crack in that dream and the EU must also weather the rise of disruptors in its more recent members, such as Hungary.

[...]

Brexit is clearly in the US right wing's interest. Obviously it's disruptive. It also allows the US to exploit the UK's impending weakness, to force it to drop trade barriers that impose significantly higher standards on imported food products, such as bans on hormone-treated beef, chlorine-washed chicken, etc. And with a bunch of ineffectual clowns in the UK government, and its worsening economic problems, the UK won't be able to resist.

Both the EU and the UK need Brexit reversed. Unfortunately UK politicians are too weak and cowardly and EU and EU countries seem unwilling to get their hands dirty by weighing in, ignoring the impact on their own countries.
We would need an entire, separate thread on Brexit. I don't know where to start. With Trump's election, it ranks as the most masterful political manipulation of all time, and while the Russian do bear some of the blame, the US right wing was the prime manipulator. It was basically an act of war against the EU from Axis America (as i call it), and honestly, in both cases, I bear a grudge to the Obama administration and all your vaunted security agencies (NSA, CIA. etc) who did nothing to intervene in at least the domestic (ie US-based) end of things, ie: Mercer., Bannon et al. Mao was right to call you a "paper tiger". You had one, well, two, existential challenges to beat, arguably the first that mattered since 9/11 and the Cuban Missile Crisis, and you failed spectacularly. (9/11 too as it turned out.)

Even today, after the Brexit Referendum has demonstrably been proven as rigged in several major respects (funding, manipulation, etc), the British are still hurtling mindlessly towards a world of pain. However, from the EU's standpoint, it's not so bad. Even since the British-driven sabotage of the EU Constitution, it was clear to analysts that the UK under Blair and Cameron, was basically a Trojan Horse for US interests. So there is actually a lot of positive feelings at least in France and Germany for being rid of them.
Sam the Centipede wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:54 am
Macron is both an example of and a victim of disruptors. (Health warning: my knowledge of France's politics is very limited!) He came in on a wave of a sentiment of "a plague on all their houses" against the established political parties and their familiar candidates spouting familiar tropes and never delivering. But now Macron cannot deliver a promised land and perhaps his lack of experience also shows.
What you say is true, but as was with the case with Trump's victory and your electoral college, Macron's victory was shaped by our system, ie: the two-step election process. What I mean is, the Socialist candidate was (somewhat unfairly) crippled by departing President Hollande's baggage, and in all logic, the Republican candidate Fillon should have won, since the rather unpopular Sarkozy had been eliminated in the primaries. That would have been the normal scenario, had not the heretofore spotless Fillon suddenly been revealed to be an emoluments-incrusted wreck. At that point, there was no one left in the center to compete against Marine Le Pen but Macron. All what-if polls show that if the Republicans had selected the far more anodyne Juppé in their primaries, he would have won. So I'd say that Macron won by default, appealing to both center-right and center-left and being young and charismatic in an Obama-ish sort of way.

Personally I feel towards Macron very much the way I felt towards Obama: I may not agree with each and every of his decisions, but I'm really glad we have a youthful, energetic, smart and pro-European president, as opposed to any of the "old" remnants the previous eras (being an old "remnant" myself :-))

[/quote]



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#484

Post by Sam the Centipede » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:17 pm

Merci, Lupin, c'est très interresante!

The Battle of the Somme-ish march towards Brexit in the UK is indeed baffling, and probably largely explained by the fall of the pro-EU Liberal Democrats and the bizarre ravings of the inept and divided Labour party.

Incidentally, I think we do have a Brexit thread tucked away in the bowels of the forum, but most FB posters are more focused on the dramas in Washington and New York!

Your thoughts on the attitudes of France and Germany seem plausible: seeing the UK crumbling into Brexit and the US blundering into its Trumpmare surely focused those two countries' leaders into thinking "hey, we need to get a positive grip on international politics and get actively engaged, not just bumble along as quietly deferential EU members."



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#485

Post by vic » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:20 pm

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:17 pm
Merci, Lupin, c'est très interresante!

The Battle of the Somme-ish march towards Brexit in the UK is indeed baffling, and probably largely explained by the fall of the pro-EU Liberal Democrats and the bizarre ravings of the inept and divided Labour party.

Incidentally, I think we do have a Brexit thread tucked away in the bowels of the forum, but most FB posters are more focused on the dramas in Washington and New York!

Your thoughts on the attitudes of France and Germany seem plausible: seeing the UK crumbling into Brexit and the US blundering into its Trumpmare surely focused those two countries' leaders into thinking "hey, we need to get a positive grip on international politics and get actively engaged, not just bumble along as quietly deferential EU members."
Here's the topic (though the title is rather outdated)

LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#486

Post by Volkonski » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:19 am


The Guardian

@guardian

World trade system in danger of being torn apart, warns IMF
https://
trib.al/SoO3cpf

8:16 AM - Apr 17, 2018
The postwar global trading system risks being torn apart, the International Monetary Fund has warned, amid concern over the tariff showdown between the US and China.

In a sign of its growing concern that protectionism is being stimulated by voter scepticism, the IMF used its half-yearly health check for the world economy to tell policymakers they needed to address the public’s concerns before a better-than-expected period of growth came to an end.

Maurice Obstfeld, the IMF’s economic counsellor, said: “The first shots in a potential trade war have now been fired.”

He said the conflict could get worse if Donald Trump’s tax cuts sucked imports into the US and led to a bigger trade deficit. “The multilateral rules-based trade system that evolved after world war two and that nurtured unprecedented growth in the world economy needs strengthening. Instead, it is in danger of being torn apart.”
Trump will destroy us all!


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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#487

Post by Addie » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:56 am

CNN
China slaps 179% charge on US sorghum imports

China is slapping a huge import charge on a crop that it accuses American farmers of dumping on its markets.


China's Commerce Ministry said Tuesday that customs officers will charge importers a fee of about 179% on US sorghum after an investigation found the shipments were unfairly subsidized and damaging Chinese producers.

Sorghum is a grain that is used to feed livestock and make a liquor that's very popular with Chinese drinkers.

China is the largest buyer of American sorghum products. Its imports of the crop were worth about $960 million last year, according to Chinese customs data. ...

China announced that it would investigate alleged dumping of American sorghum back in February.


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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#488

Post by Volkonski » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:10 am

Addie wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:56 am
CNN
China slaps 179% charge on US sorghum imports

China is slapping a huge import charge on a crop that it accuses American farmers of dumping on its markets.


China's Commerce Ministry said Tuesday that customs officers will charge importers a fee of about 179% on US sorghum after an investigation found the shipments were unfairly subsidized and damaging Chinese producers.

Sorghum is a grain that is used to feed livestock and make a liquor that's very popular with Chinese drinkers.

China is the largest buyer of American sorghum products. Its imports of the crop were worth about $960 million last year, according to Chinese customs data. ...

China announced that it would investigate alleged dumping of American sorghum back in February.
That's going to hurt US farmers.
Approximately 7.7 million acres of sorghum were planted in 2007 in 21 states throughout the United States, making the United States the largest producer of sorghum.
The last few years, exports have been our No. 1 market,” said Tim Lust, chief executive officer of National Sorghum Producers. “China has been the dominant player in that. In the U.S., ethanol is our main market today, and then livestock after that, and the specialty industrial food markets coming after that.”
http://www.world-grain.com/articles/new ... 05155E6%7D

http://www.indexbox.co.uk/news/which-co ... the-world/

Sorghum Production (1000 MT)
1
United States
9,242.00

2
Nigeria
6,550.00

3
Mexico
4,750.00

4
India
4,500.00

5
Sudan
4,500.00

6
China
3,850.00


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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#489

Post by ZekeB » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:16 am

Grain sorghum A/K/A milo? They use to grow a lot of that in Nebraska. I think production has moved to the south of there. It’s still Trump territory.


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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#490

Post by Addie » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:33 pm

The Hill
Trump's tariffs will raise prices on televisions for US consumers, study shows

Televisions will cost U.S. consumers millions more each year if President Trump slaps billions in proposed tariffs on China, a new study shows.

The National Retail Federation (NRF) and the Consumer Technology Association (CTA) examined the effects of 25 percent tariffs on imports of TVs and and other products found that Americans would pay an estimated $711 million over the next year on televisions.

"China’s unfair trade practices must be addressed, but as this study shows, tariffs aren’t the answer and will punish U.S. consumers in the form of higher prices,” said NRF President and CEO Matthew Shay.

“We urge the administration to avoid taxing Americans through tariffs and instead work with our like-minded trading partners and develop a serious, long-term strategy to pressure China to play by the rules,” Shay said.


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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#491

Post by RTH10260 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:14 pm

dotus the "typical" American - shot first investigate later - rather than announcing an intent for some future time and then running some simulations on what could happen and then use pin point surgical tariffs he used the hammer method and two rates pulled from his ass. If you onl have a hammer everthing looks like a nail.... :brickwallsmall:



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#492

Post by TollandRCR » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:45 pm

Welcome, Lupin, and thanks for starting a needed conversation.

Many Americans are horrified by Trump but seem unable to think of ways to oppose him. I am disappointed that Democrats are not being more effective but have hopes for the younger generation of Democratic politicians such as Conor Lamb and Beto O'Rourke. I wish that President Obama were more vocal and assertive but he may be wary of overshadowing Congressional leaders. He is also bound by the norm that former presidents do not criticize their successors, but we need his voice.


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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#493

Post by Lupin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:04 am

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:17 pm
Merci, Lupin, c'est très interresante!

The Battle of the Somme-ish march towards Brexit in the UK is indeed baffling, and probably largely explained by the fall of the pro-EU Liberal Democrats and the bizarre ravings of the inept and divided Labour party.
I am always struck by the similarities between Sanders and Corbyn; while I think both men are sincere in their opinions (which I largely share), they are, in effect unelectable and have mightily contributed (and still contribute) to the destruction of the legitimate opposition to the Axis forces in both the UK and the US. Normally, right now, Labor should be ahead by 20 points; yet they're behind. That's the Corbyn effect. I have no idea if this is a stroke of bad luck or masterful planning by the Russians, but it is odd. We almost had the same problem in France with Melenchon, but the presence if Macron derailed that "threat".
Sam the Centipede wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:17 pm
Your thoughts on the attitudes of France and Germany seem plausible: seeing the UK crumbling into Brexit and the US blundering into its Trumpmare surely focused those two countries' leaders into thinking "hey, we need to get a positive grip on international politics and get actively engaged, not just bumble along as quietly deferential EU members."
I totally agree; both were a kick in the proverbial nuts; in particular, Germany. Watching Merkel come to terms, in slow motion as it were, with the fact that the US was longer a "friend" but a "foe" was astonishing, historical really.



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#494

Post by Lupin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:13 am

Volkonski wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:19 am
Trump will destroy us all!
I would argue that the "problem" isn't as much Trump but the now proven dysfunctionality of your political system -- something I often mentioned on Doc Conspiracy's site.

The current French Constitution was promulgated in 1958. It has since been amended 24 times, last in 2008, despite the fact it requires a 3/5th vote by both chambers (ie: not easy). We don't do it because it's fun, but because it's necessary.

The fact that you continue to function under what is basically a suitable model for the 18th century, with farmers needing a day to go and vote on horse-drawn buggies, electoral college, etc, etc, etc, was always baffling to me, and I'll concede that it did work fine, until the Perfect Storm you are currently experiencing.

I'm not hopeful, but if if you could come out of this with the will and the means to update your Constitution and create the set of laws necessary to run a 21st century superpower, that would be nice.



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#495

Post by Lupin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:19 am

TollandRCR wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:45 pm
Welcome, Lupin, and thanks for starting a needed conversation.

Many Americans are horrified by Trump but seem unable to think of ways to oppose him. I am disappointed that Democrats are not being more effective but have hopes for the younger generation of Democratic politicians such as Conor Lamb and Beto O'Rourke. I wish that President Obama were more vocal and assertive but he may be wary of overshadowing Congressional leaders. He is also bound by the norm that former presidents do not criticize their successors, but we need his voice.
Michael Wolffe's book make it clear that Obama made the decision not to intervene in the disaster that was the 2016 election because everyone thought Mrs Clinton as going to in anyway. With hindsight, this will rank with Hitler's Operation Barbarossa as one of the greatest political mistakes of all times.

One think we French could be grateful to ex-President Hollande is that when the state security apparatus saw the same shenanigans starting to happen during our own elections here, they slammed on all the brakes that the French legal arsenal put at their disposal. Granted, they had your example to show what happens when one does nothing, so it wasn't rocket science, and unlike you, we have the arsenal (or, as I like to call it, smoke detectors).

When all is said and done, I suspect historians of the future will be very harsh on Obama because of this.



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#496

Post by Sam the Centipede » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:23 am

Lupin wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:19 am
:snippity:
When all is said and done, I suspect historians of the future will be very harsh on Obama because of this.
Do you think so? All the reputable polling information indicated a Clinton win and she was clearly the better candidate (as current events are showing). There was no big reason for the Democrats (including Obama) to panic, except out of an abundance of caution because the stakes were so high. Of course, with perfect hindsight, there were mistakes, and lessons to be learnt, but that's the way for every losing competitor in every competition.

I suspect future historians' interest will be more along the lines of "why in heaven's name did Americans vote for a semi-literate, inexperienced, lying, racist, sexist, narcissistic bully spouting idiotic inanities to be President when the alternative was clearly better on every possible dimension of comparison?"

Part of the answer might be the lack of sophistication of America's voters compared with France's. In France's presidential run-offs involving a Front National (racist right wing) candidate, voters held their noses and voted for other candidates that they disliked because they are intelligent and engaged enough to appreciate that it was not a beauty contest, it was the ultra-serious question of "given only these two candidates, which eould be the better President of our country?" Too many American voters apparently interpreted the election question as either "do you like Hillary Clinton or not?" or "is Hillary Clinton perfect or not?" and were swayed by the torrent of negative stories flowing from the complicit media.



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#497

Post by Lupin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:56 am

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:23 am

Do you think so? All the reputable polling information indicated a Clinton win and she was clearly the better candidate (as current events are showing). There was no big reason for the Democrats (including Obama) to panic, except out of an abundance of caution because the stakes were so high. Of course, with perfect hindsight, there were mistakes, and lessons to be learnt, but that's the way for every losing competitor in every competition.

I suspect future historians' interest will be more along the lines of "why in heaven's name did Americans vote for a semi-literate, inexperienced, lying, racist, sexist, narcissistic bully spouting idiotic inanities to be President when the alternative was clearly better on every possible dimension of comparison?"
While I agree entirely with your second graph, I still think that, philosophically, if you wish, Obama was wrong, and wrong for the wrong reasons. The admittedly overwhelming odds favoring Clinton's victory should not have mattered. The US democratic process was under attack by the Russians. It shouldn't have mattered who was going to win or lose. He had to act; he should have acted; but he chose not to. It was a pragmatic, somewhat unprincipled decision, that ultimately turned out to have catastrophic results. But even if Clinton had won, it still would have been the wrong decision. History is littered with short-term pragmatic decisions like this (Munich), and if it teaches us anything, is that the results aren't often good. Better a strong, principled decision, no matter how controversial it might seem at the time. (Evian)

All IMHO, of course. :-)
Sam the Centipede wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:23 am

Part of the answer might be the lack of sophistication of America's voters compared with France's. In France's presidential run-offs involving a Front National (racist right wing) candidate, voters held their noses and voted for other candidates that they disliked because they are intelligent and engaged enough to appreciate that it was not a beauty contest, it was the ultra-serious question of "given only these two candidates, which would be the better President of our country?" Too many American voters apparently interpreted the election question as either "do you like Hillary Clinton or not?" or "is Hillary Clinton perfect or not?" and were swayed by the torrent of negative stories flowing from the complicit media.
I agree; in the second round, Macron came first with about 44% of total registered voters (just under 48M people), Non-Voters (abstentions + blank + spoiled ballots) second with 34% and Le Pen third with 22%. The last % is still too high IMHO, way up from 14% in 2012, but still not a threat (yet). Vigilance is definitely warranted, and vulnerability to outside shenanigans increased; hence a greater need for "smoke detectors".



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#498

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:09 am

Comey addressed that on NPR yesterday. It was widely believed that since Trump’s followers had been told repeatedly that the election was being rigged, anything Obama did to focus on Russian interference would have been seen as proof of such a conspiracy, and that he was only making it up to help Clinton.


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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#499

Post by Lupin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:28 am

RoadScholar wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:09 am
Comey addressed that on NPR yesterday. It was widely believed that since Trump’s followers had been told repeatedly that the election was being rigged, anything Obama did to focus on Russian interference would have been seen as proof of such a conspiracy, and that he was only making it up to help Clinton.
I realize this, but that still doesn't make what he (Obama) did the right decision, from the viewpoint of both principles, and results.

I could also argue that it shouldn't have mattered what Trump's followers thought; hypothetically, if Trump's followers thought it is OK for the Russians to reclaim Alaska, then should you let them have it?

The UK has a similar problem now where most accept that the Brexit referendum was rigged, but they'd rather continue hurtling along towards chaos rather than stop and restart.



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Re: Trump's Trade Follicy

#500

Post by neeneko » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:30 am

Lupin wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:13 am
I'm not hopeful, but if if you could come out of this with the will and the means to update your Constitution and create the set of laws necessary to run a 21st century superpower, that would be nice.
Eh, while people take the constitution very seriously, I would caution against, well, taking it too seriously. Something the poots do have right is that we are a LONG way from things as laid out in the document. Over the centuries the law has developed a pretty wide range of ways around various concepts, and there is a precedent for managing pretty much any part of it a lawmaker or judge wants. At this point it is more of a poetic or rhetorical tool for framing an argument, and (actual) experts can usually find arguments in it for or against any particular point. Kinda like the bible actually.

As for the electoral college... yeah, it is crazy, but it has been kept around for a very solid reason : it is politically popular. Not with the people mind you, but the parties. There is no desire, much less will, to change it.



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