GUILTY! Final Day 5 Videos STATE OF FLORIDA v TERRY TRUSSELL 061016 Incl Felon Walk

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Kriselda Gray
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Re: GUILTY! Final Day 5 Videos STATE OF FLORIDA v TERRY TRUSSELL 061016 Incl Felon Walk

#276

Post by Kriselda Gray » Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:40 am

Damn.
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Re: GUILTY! Final Day 5 Videos STATE OF FLORIDA v TERRY TRUSSELL 061016 Incl Felon Walk

#277

Post by Orlylicious » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:00 am

Sammy Davis Jr. has a little something to say to Terry and his pals (courtesy of the Baretta theme) :P
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Re: GUILTY! Final Day 5 Videos STATE OF FLORIDA v TERRY TRUSSELL 061016 Incl Felon Walk

#278

Post by Flatpointhigh » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:11 am

Barnzibul wrote:
Maybenaut wrote:
Slim Cognito wrote:
And, oddly enough, I give him credit for that. He may be an idiot, but he's a loyal idiot.
Has a copy of that pamphlet been posted anywhere?
I'm interested in seeing that too.

Wonder if it was one of Gimmy's generic pamphlets or it was tailored for Terry's specific case.
check this site out: http://fija.org

found this freebie: and am uploading a larger pdf to my scribe account:
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Re: GUILTY! Final Day 5 Videos STATE OF FLORIDA v TERRY TRUSSELL 061016 Incl Felon Walk

#279

Post by Maybenaut » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:15 am

Kriselda Gray wrote:
Orlylicious wrote:Judge Hankinson would take perjury into account at sentencing if he determines it happened. :dance:
I have a bit of a problem with that, I think. If the judge did that, wouldn't he basically be sentencing TT to additional time for a crime he was never accused of and had no chence to defend himself against - even if the total sentence falls within the sentencing guidelines for the crimes he was convicted of? It just seems wrong to me that effectively two people with identical backgroinds who committed identical crimes, where one person perjured himself in court and the other did not, that the first guy might end up getting a longer sentence because of the perjury even though he was never indicted, tried or found guilty of having committed that specific act.
I have no problem with it. We actually have a jury instruction on it in the military. It says,
The evidence presented (and the sentencing argument of trial counsel) raised the question of whether the accused testified falsely before this court under oath. No person, including the accused, has a right to seek to alter or affect the outcome of a court-martial by false testimony. You are instructed that you may consider this issue only within certain constraints.

First, this factor should play no role whatsoever in your determination of an appropriate sentence unless you conclude that the accused did lie under oath to the court.

Second, such lies must have been, in your view, willful and material, meaning important, before they can be considered in your deliberations.

Finally, you may consider this factor insofar as you conclude that it, along with all the other circumstances in the case, bears upon the likelihood that the accused can be rehabilitated. You may not mete out additional punishment for the false testimony itself.
I don't know if Florida has a similar instruction. But it explains why TT's perjured testimony is relevant to his sentence, and prevents a person being punished for committing uncharged misconduct.
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Re: GUILTY! Final Day 5 Videos STATE OF FLORIDA v TERRY TRUSSELL 061016 Incl Felon Walk

#280

Post by Kriselda Gray » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:27 am

Maybenaut wrote:I don't know if Florida has a similar instruction. But it explains why TT's perjured testimony is relevant to his sentence, and prevents a person being punished for committing uncharged misconduct.
Thank you, Maybe. Put into that context, its a lot less objectionable.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand... - "Witch Hunt" by Rush

SCMP = SovCits/Militias/Patriots.

Thor promised to slay the Ice Giants
God promised to quell all evil
-----
I'm not seeing any Ice Giants...

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Re: GUILTY! Final Day 5 Videos STATE OF FLORIDA v TERRY TRUSSELL 061016 Incl Felon Walk

#281

Post by RVInit » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:42 pm

Dolly wrote:
► Show Spoiler

* in order to deliberately undermine justice
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Re: GUILTY! Final Day 5 Videos STATE OF FLORIDA v TERRY TRUSSELL 061016 Incl Felon Walk

#282

Post by chancery » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:34 pm

Kriselda Gray wrote:
Maybenaut wrote:I don't know if Florida has a similar instruction. But it explains why TT's perjured testimony is relevant to his sentence, and prevents a person being punished for committing uncharged misconduct.
Thank you, Maybe. Put into that context, its a lot less objectionable.
The Supreme Court said that it's cool, over 20 years ago. Unanimously. United States v. Dunnigan, 507 U.S. 87 (1993). https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-1300.ZO.html

I can follow the argument, but it doesn't always seem right to me. Note that enhanced punishment for false statements goes beyond trial testimony. Unsworn false statements to law enforcement can be treated as obstruction of judgment for purposes of sentence enhancement. http://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2015-gui ... /2012-3c11

I guess I don't have a problem if the false statements amount to a calculated coverup, especially if it tends to incriminate someone else or involves coordinated false statements by several people. But the principle goes way beyond that kind of obvious bad conduct.

I can't provide a cite for this, but, based on a Second Circuit oral argument I once listened to, a defendant can be dinged for false statements to law enforcement just for saying "No, I didn't do it," or "You've got the wrong guy." That's when I first learned about this issue, and it startled me. It's uncomfortably close to enhancing a sentence because the defendant pleaded not guilty. It's not exactly the same, but too close for comfort.

As I recall the argument, Judge John M. Walker, Jr. -- a Reagan appointee, first cousin of President George H.W. Bush, and not a softy on criminal matters -- expressed a good deal of sympathy with the argument that a generic denial of guilt should not lead to an enhanced sentence, but gently explained to defense counsel that the court was constrained by Supreme Court rulings from accepting that view.

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