Religious Threadjacks

[northland10]

Off Topic

I once participated in a performance of a Bach fugue played on kazoos by 150 organists and friends in, of course, Kalamazoo.

It might be a common thing, I dunno (I'm almost as musical as a paper towel) but I only heard of it once: professional classical players coming together as a full symphony orchestra but each playing a wholly unfamiliar instrument. So a trombonist scratching out a tune in a viola and a violinist whisting on a piccolo.

Strange sound, very unlike a bunch of unskilled musicians on their own instruments because the skilled pros were mentally in harmony with the music, the timing, the coordination of parts etc., but lacked the mechanical skills to realize that.

Off Topic

That's the example that making music is not just about technical ability on an instrument but the musicianship. As explained well by one Charles Emerson Winchester, the III:

[poplove]

Off Topic

That's the example that making music is not just about technical ability on an instrument but the musicianship. As explained well by one Charles Emerson Winchester, the III:

Off Topic

I LOVED that episode of MASH!! David Ogden Stiers was a brilliant actor and conductor.

[poplove]

Former Mormon bishop highlighted in AP investigation arrested on felony child sex abuse charges
https://apnews.com/article/mormon-churc ... ec25a5f99c

[RTH10260]

cause I looked something up on Ramadan which starts around now

A brief history of Ramadan
When was Ramadan, Islam’s holy month of fasting, first observed? And how have its practices changed? Here, Remona Aly considers its history and evolution across the world…

Remona AlyPublished:
March 22, 2023 at 10:33 AM

Ramadan, Islam’s holy month of fasting, has been observed and celebrated by Muslims around the world for more than 14 centuries. In the seventh century, Prophet Muhammad stated that Islam is built upon five pillars and that fasting in Ramadan was one of them. Today, nearly a quarter of the world’s population mark or observe the fast during daylight hours, giving great respect to the Islamic month in which the holy book of Islam, the Quran, was revealed to the Prophet.

What does Ramadan mean?

Ramadan literally means ‘intense heat’, denoting the scorching summer month to which it was originally ascribed. It formed part of the pre-Islamic Arab calendar well before Islam came to Mecca, the holy city in today’s Saudi Arabia, in the seventh century.

When is Ramadan?

Muslims embrace Ramadan as the ninth month of the Islamic lunar calendar. Moonsighting – the practice of spotting the new moon on the first night of each Islamic month with the naked eye – is a tradition that has endured to this day, as Muslims across the world wait in anticipation and excitement for the birth of the Ramadan moon.

A Muslim man moonlighting during Ramadan

Moonsighting is a tradition that has endured to this day. Here, a man in Indonesia prepares to sight the new moon that would signal the end of Ramadan in 2019. (Photo by Robertus Pudyanto/Getty Images)
The practice of fasting was familiar to the pre-Islamic Arabs, as the Quran mentions: “You who believe, fasting is prescribed for you, as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you may be mindful of God.” (Quran 2:183)

It was during Ramadan that the very first revelation of the Quran occurred. This took place in 610 AD, when Muhammad retreated to a cave on Mount Hira on the outskirts of Mecca for secluded contemplation. The timing of this initial revelation is given special significance as the “night of power”: “We have revealed it (Quran) in the night of power. And what will explain to you what the night of power is? The night of power is better than a thousand months.” (Quran 97:1–4)


https://www.historyextra.com/period/anc ... fast-what/

[raison de arizona]

Now I've learned something. Very interesting.

[RTH10260]

Ex-Louisiana deacon whose son was sexually abused by a priest is excommunicated from church
Bishop J Douglas Deshotel issued the order after Scott Peyton had resigned from his post, but the abusive priest was not censured

Ramon Antonio Vargas in New Orleans
Fri 22 Mar 2024 12.00 CET

A Louisiana man who resigned as a Roman Catholic deacon after a priest at whose side he served sexually molested his son has been excommunicated from the church by his local diocese, a remarkably harsh punishment that his child’s abuser does not appear to have faced.

Scott Peyton’s excommunication from the Catholic church at the hands of bishop J Douglas Deshotel came as the latter’s Lafayette diocese has asked Louisiana’s supreme court to strike down a law that retroactively and temporarily eliminated filing deadlines for lawsuits demanding damages for childhood sexual abuse from years ago.

The law which attorneys for the Lafayette diocese persuaded the state supreme court to strike down following a key ruling Friday wasn’t exclusively for clergy abuse victims. But it prompted many new cases of that nature against Louisiana’s Catholic institutions and clerics who worked for them.

Peyton called Deshotel’s actions against him “very malicious”, adding that he has seen no indication the diocese ever sought to excommunicate any of the more than 40 priests and deacons whom it has included on the organization’s list of credibly accused child molesters. Among those on that roster is Gilbert Gauthe, who pleaded guilty to abusing numerous boys before being sent to prison in the mid-1980s in a case that is widely considered to be “patient zero” of the US Catholic church’s ongoing clerical molestation scandal.

“It’s totally unnecessary,” Peyton said of his excommunication, which was first reported by the Lafayette news outlet KADN. “And I’m afraid it will make abuse victims and their families afraid to come out.”

Peyton said he was ordained into the diocese of Lafayette – about 135 miles (217 km) west of New Orleans – as a deacon in 2012. Deacons are similar to priests, though they can become clergymen despite being married.

His faith was challenged substantially in 2018, when a priest with whom he ministered at St Peter’s church in Morrow, Louisiana, confessed to molesting Peyton’s teenage son, Oliver, and was arrested by law enforcement investigators.

Michael Guidry later pleaded guilty to abusing Oliver Peyton, who was an altar boy. And after Guidry’s church honored him with a goodbye luncheon for which the diocese was forced to apologize, he received a seven-year prison sentence.

Then in 2021, Scott said he, his wife, Letitia, and Oliver – with the help of attorney Kristi Schubert – secured a $350,000 settlement from the diocese of Lafayette to settle a civil lawsuit against the church out of court.




https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... xual-abuse

[AndyinPA]

Despicable.

[Suranis]

Sigh, I guess I better stick my nose in here to get it bitten off. So, I didn't take the Guardian article at face value as from the language I knew they were leaving out some details for maximum kicking Catholic power. SO I checked around for other articles to get more information.

According to this, the Excommunication had nothing to do with the Molestation allegations or his role in bringing them to light, which the Guardian tries to imply through very vague language and it leaves out that "bringing it to light" happened 6 years ago with no Excommunication or anything happening to Payton. And the Molester confessed to the crime himself so Payton didn't actually bring hem to light at all.

Rather it was due to the fact that he had announced he had left the Catholic Church and had resigned as a Deacon. So, in effect, Scott Payton had excommunicated himself (though Excommunication does not mean that you are kicked out of the CC)

Personally I don't think that's a valid reason for an excommunication as Excommunication isn't actually getting kicked out of the Catholic Church. But neither is Molestation under Canon Law. Though it probably should be as, leaving everything else aside, it is breaking your vow of Celibacy which does have implications in Canon Law. So there is probably other stuff going on that we haven't been told about.

Again from reading this, the real reason is probably a wholesale row between this man and the Bishop that's been going on for years, and that is indicated by the bit I highlighted below. Telling a Bishop you don't agree with the way he is running his Diocese is like telling a Judge you don't agree with the way he is running his court. They are not going to be happy, and Sanctions are likely on their way. To paraphrase a joke about Judges - the difference between God and Bishops is that God does not think he is a Bishop.

In any case, having a person say "its not FAAAAIIIR that I've been punished in a certain way and someone else who did something completely different was not punished in the same way" is not exactly a logical argument. It's actually very petty. Punishments for different circumstances are not supposed to be "fair."

https://catholicvote.org/la-bishop-exco ... by-priest/

CV NEWS FEED // A Louisiana bishop this week informed a former deacon that he was excommunicated, months after he left Catholicism and the diaconate because his teenage son was abused by a priest.

Scott Peyton served as a deacon at St. Peter’s Church in St. Landry Parish in the diocese of Lafayette with Fr. Michael Guidry. In 2019, Guidry, 78, molested Peyton’s teenage son. Guidry was sentenced to seven years in prison after he pled guilty to the crime. The Peytons also filed a civil lawsuit against the diocese, which was settled in 2021.

In December of 2023, Peyton sent an email to Bishop John Douglas Deshotel informing him that he decided to leave the Catholic Church and the diaconate.

According to news outlet The Advocate, Peyton wrote that the decision was made after “deep reflection” and after “years of allegations of sexual abuse committed by church clergy had ‘shaken my faith.’”

Peyton continued:

The pain and suffering endured by the victims, our family, and most importantly our son, coupled with what appears to be a systemic failure in addressing and preventing such heinous acts, have left me disillusioned and unable to reconcile my commitment to the Church with my conscience.

Bishop Deshotel responded initially with an email expressing sadness about Peyton’s decision, and excommunication was not mentioned.

According to KADN News 15, Deshotel wrote, “I was sad to receive your email deciding to leave the Church and cease to exercise your vocation as Deacon. I will remember you in my prayers and masses that you be open to the gift of faith in the Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ and built on the Apostles.”

Deshotel added, “Sacramentally you are a Deacon though you choose not to exercise your ministry.”

In mid-March, Peyton received a decree from Deshotel informing him of his excommunication.

“The censures of the Church are intended to be medicinal, perhaps as much for those who impose them as for those who are subject to them,” Deshotel wrote. “It is with this objective that I mournfully must declare them.”

“A bishop never wishes to communicate a censure to anyone,” Deshotel wrote:

I am aware that your family has suffered a trauma but the answer does not lie in leaving the Most Holy Eucharist: We are not Catholics because the Church on earth is perfect but because the Lord has entrusted us to a mystery greater than ourselves, which He established as the means to our salvation.

According to The Advocate, Deshotel’s letter also explained, “As a cleric you will likely understand that your decision has theological and canonical effects beyond your own private intentions. Whether these matters are of any more concern to you, I hope you understand that I have duties which cannot be omitted.”

Peyton told KADN News 15 that there was no indication that Guidry had been excommunicated, which he called a “hypocrisy.”

“If molesting a child is not grave enough to get excommunicated, but telling the bishop that I don’t agree with how he’s running the diocese and how the church is handling the sex abuse crisis, if that’s a grave sin, then I guess I’ll wear the badge of excommunication as an honor,” Peyton said:

I think the hypocrisy in this excommunication speaks volumes of the leadership of Bishop Deshotel. I think he should resign his leadership and those that are running this diocese behind the scenes should step down along with him.

Under current Code of Canon law, being excommunicated does not mean the person has been “kicked out of the Catholic Church,” but he or she is prohibited from receiving the sacraments, and from exercising any ecclesial responsibilities such as teaching catechesis. Excommunicated clergy members are not permitted to administer the sacraments or blessings.

For more information about the different types of excommunication, its effects, and purpose, click here (https://www.catholic.com/magazine/onlin ... -you-think). For a list of the actions that constitute an excommunication under current Code of Canon Law, click here (https://www.catholic.com/qa/why-and-how ... mmunicated) .

[RTH10260]

H/T @Suranis for the additional research.

[Reality Check]

H/T @Suranis for the additional research.

CatholicVote.org is a conservative PAC so it is no surprise the article sugar coats the excommunication and hypocrisy of the Church. To say the excommunication had nothing to do with the molestation is disingenuous. Without the molestation it doesn't happen. Also, I don't see any evidence of a long standing feud between Scott Peyton and the Bishop. Peyton like lot of Catholics had his faith shaken by the abuse and subsequent coverups committed by the Church. Well

[Suranis]

[Suranis]

Holy Week.jpg (43.1 KiB) Viewed 311 times

[northland10]

By next Sunday, Christ arises and I collapse.

[pipistrelle]

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/kFHuP2 ... tid=WC7FNe

And then there is this:
The Presbyterian church called a meeting to decide what to do about their squirrel infestation. After much prayer and consideration, they concluded that the squirrels were predestined to be there, and they should not interfere with God’s divine will.

At the Baptist church, the squirrels had taken an interest in the baptistry. The deacons met and decided to put a water-slide on the baptistry and let the squirrels drown themselves. The squirrels liked the slide and, unfortunately, knew instinctively how to swim, so twice as many squirrels showed up the following week.

The Lutheran church decided that they were not in a position to harm any of God’s creatures. So, they humanely trapped their squirrels and set them free near the Baptist church. Two weeks later, the squirrels were back when the Baptists took down the water-slide.

The Episcopalians tried a much more unique path by setting out pans of whiskey around their church in an effort to kill the squirrels with alcohol poisoning. They sadly learned how much damage a band of drunk squirrels can do.

But the Catholic church came up with a more creative strategy! They baptized all the squirrels and made them members of the church. Now they only see them at Christmas and Easter.

Not much was heard from the Jewish synagogue. They took the first squirrel and circumcised him. They haven’t seen a squirrel since.

IMG_5049.jpeg (158.13 KiB) Viewed 271 times

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

[northland10]

We once had a chipmunk steal a windscreen that had fallen off of a microphone, while a group was meeting in the room. I found it later on the sidewalk when the critter decided that black foam was not yummy.

[poplove]

By next Sunday, Christ arises and I collapse.

IMG_1677.jpeg (146.5 KiB) Viewed 195 times

[keith]

Off Topic

TV show Babylon Berlin: the central character police officer's boss is the Catholic parish's organist. And he's Jewish.

[Rolodex]

Off Topic

TV show Babylon Berlin: the central character police officer's boss is the Catholic parish's organist. And he's Jewish.

For many years a person at my Methodist church was the cantor at the synagogue across the street.

[northland10]

Off Topic

TV show Babylon Berlin: the central character police officer's boss is the Catholic parish's organist. And he's Jewish.

For many years a person at my Methodist church was the cantor at the synagogue across the street.

I know organists who play Saturday at a synagogue and Sunday at a church.

We also have a parishoner who will sing with our choir from time to time, do cantor work for a synagogue, and also do cantor work for a nearby monastery where her husband is the organist.

[Rolodex]

We're so ecumenical!

[RTH10260]

An employer would conclude: job enrichment

[RTH10260]

cause it popped up today:

March 31, 1717: The Bangorian Controversy.

31 Thursday Mar 2022
Posted by liamfoley63

A sermon on “The Nature of the Kingdom of Christ” by Benjamin Hoadly, the Bishop of Bangor, preached in the presence of King George I of Great Britain, provokes the Bangorian Controversy.

The Bangorian Controversy was a theological argument within the Church of England in the early 18th century, with strong political overtones. The origins of the controversy lay in the 1716 posthumous publication of George Hickes’s Constitution of the Catholic Church, and the Nature and Consequences of Schism.

The controversy itself began very visibly and vocally when Hoadly delivered a sermon on March 31, 1717 to George I of Great Britain on The Nature of the Kingdom of Christ.

His text was John 18:36, “My kingdom is not of this world” and from that, Hoadly deduced, supposedly at the request of the king himself, that there is no Biblical justification for any church government of any sort. He identified the church with the Kingdom of Heaven. It was therefore not of this world, and Christ had not delegated His authority to any representatives.

Background

Two competing visions of government were in play. On the one hand, there was a vision of God appointing the king and the bishops to be leaders, selecting them from all others and imbuing them with special characters, either through grace or in creation. That view held that the king, as the head of the Established Church, was not only a secular leader of a state but also a religious primate.

Power and regulation flowed downward from God to the people. That was the aristocratic model that was favoured by the Tory party and had been used to propose the divine right of kings.

The other view was that power flowed up from the people to the leaders, that leaders were no more intrinsically better than those led, and God gives out revelation freely. That Whig view was also the view of the Puritans and the “Independents” (the various Congregational and Baptist churches, Quakers etc.).

George I favoured the Whigs in Parliament and favoured a latitudinarian ecclesiastical policy in general. That was probably not by any desire to give up royal prerogative but to break the power of the aristocracy and the House of Lords. A significant obstacle to all kings of England had been the presence of bishops in the Lords. While a king could create peers, it was much more difficult for him to move bishops into and out of the Lords.



https://europeanroyalhistory.wordpress. ... ntroversy/

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

Very interesting!

[sugar magnolia]

Interesting comment I heard on a quilting podcast the other day. Zak Foster is a quilter who works with people's clothing to make funeral/memory/burial quilts and he commented that the requests for religious motifs to be incorporated in his designs had dropped off dramatically in recent years. I have just finished a memory quilt of baby clothes for a mother who lost her daughter to SIDS at 7 months old and she specifically asked for no religious imagery. That's the first specific request I've ever gotten for a memory quilt to exclude religion, although the parents are both practicing Catholics. I've had multiple requests to include religious or spiritual references, though.

It doesn't prove anything, I just thought it was interesting.