Clueless Youth Struggle With Old Technology & Stuff We Grew Up With

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

[Luke]

Remember this sound? We should ask kids what it is







And in Rolodex's honor (I still have mine)

Rolodex.JPG (119.63 KiB) Viewed 5215 times

Gone: Paper maps, pay phones, corded telephones, floppy disks, film cameras, cassette tapes... we've lived through perhaps the most remarkable progress in the world's history. No wonder folks are overwhelmed. GenAlpha is the first subsumed completely by online and tech, it's a fascinating story.

What does alpha generation mean? the first digital native generation
Generation Alpha will lead a 100% digital world
April 22, 2021 - Generation Alpha includes those born from 2010 onwards and who have therefore grown up in a fully digital world. In fact, their appearance coincides with the launch of the first iPad by Apple. The term was coined by Mark McCrindle, founder of the Australian consultancy firm McCrindle Research, and he explains how it came about: "It conforms to the scientific nomenclature of using the Greek alphabet instead of the Latin alphabet and there was no point in going back to A, after all they are the first generation born fully into the 21st century and therefore they are the start of something new, not a return to the old".

The year 2010 saw the Alpha generation come to life, replacing the generation Z. Growing up in a digital environment, with all knowledge just a click away, will not only affect their experiences, but will define the way they interact with their peers. Here we tell you about their characteristics, the impact of digital on their development and which technologies will define them.

https://www.iberdrola.com/talent/alpha-generation

[Sam the Centipede]

One sadness for me about the rise of digital technology is its universality across so many areas rendering of little more than academic interest.

We had so many fascinating and imaginative technologies for tagging the time of day: sundials, water clocks, candles, pendululums (or -a) and clockwork then clockwork with springs. Now there is no practical reason to buy a precision piece of engineering for your wrist: you could buy a cheap watch, but why bother? – just glance at your phone.

Similarly sextants and their ilk, clever technology, supplanted by one's phone.

And simpler technologies too: for example, mantles for gas and paraffin/kerosene lamps: rare earth salts on a cloth matrix which is burnt away: how neat!

So much ingenuity and creativity pushed into obsolescence.

There's a line in Douglas Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy where philosopher Majikthise is raging against the superpowerful computer Deep Thought crashing into the domain of disputative philosophers: "I mean what's the use of our sitting up half the night arguing that there may or may not be a God if this machine only goes and gives us his bleeding phone number the next morning?"

On a humdrum level it's the same with phones etc.: what's the point in learning to take bearings with a compass and determine one's position on a map or chart if your phone will tell you where you are? At the same time, it can tell you what's on the lunch menu at the pub you're heading for, and whether your friends have arrived yet.

[Foggy]

Yeah, but each technology that is obsolete means we lose a lot of valuable information. You know what isn't on Luke's list of things that are Gone:? CD/DVDs.

When floppies became obsolete, I had to transfer all my photos and important stuff to CDs. Now you have to pay extra for a CD player in any new computer. They're obsolete. They don't even hold 64 GB of data! I am transferring all my photos and stuff to flash drives.

Next, flash drives will be obsolete too also. Prove me wrong.

... and the day is coming when your cell phone is obsolete, and your phone is on your wrist.

And not everyone else is as careful about switching documents and photos from one storage medium to the next. We've lost a lot of stuff, if'n you add it up.

[keith]

When floppies became obsolete, I had to transfer all my photos and important stuff to CDs. Now you have to pay extra for a CD player in any new computer.

You always did - it's just that it was assumed and included in the quote.

]Next, flash drives will be obsolete too also. Prove me wrong.

Aint you never heard about 'the Cloud'?

I reckon I've lost a lot of photos when a new phone or OS decided to steal em into a cloud an then shut down the cloud they were hidden in

[Foggy]

Yeah, but I still love living in the 21st century.

Can't wait to see what happens next.

[northland10]

When traveling across backcountry, I still have a compass nearby though it would be easier it I brought a topo map.

Even with a phone and Google, you have to download the maps ahead of time if you might be out reception range. You also need extra power for charging (got that too).

Be prepared.

[bill_g]

In our own personal lives, we went from film cameras to digital cameras to phone cameras in less than two decades.

The film photos disappeared in scrapbooks, envelopes, and boxes. Handled carefully, they could be passed from generation to generation. If stored poorly, they were lost to time and humidity. They were hard to copy, and tended to be unique. That made them a singular pleasure when viewed by many altogether in a room during gatherings. They were memories that created more memories.

Digital cameras were uploaded to the PC's of the period, and left there. If you didn't transfer them to another storage method, they are probably lost now. If you never printed them, no one ever saw them. If you had a poor printer, the image was badly rendered and severely uninteresting.

Cellphone cameras had the "big advantage" of automatically uploading to The Cloud - this ephemeral storage space that resides someplace no one knows where, at a cost we never knew about, that remains safe and intact for who knows how long, that can be retrieved from anywhere if you remember your credentials. And that will be the crux of it. If you forgot your credentials, or lost them, or failed to pass them to your survivors, those pictures are gone too.

[Frater I*I]

On a humdrum level it's the same with phones etc.: what's the point in learning to take bearings with a compass and determine one's position on a map or chart if your phone will tell you where you are? At the same time, it can tell you what's on the lunch menu at the pub you're heading for, and whether your friends have arrived yet.

A: You're a pilot and are required to show that proficiency for you flight test...in case the electrical system goes out in flight...

B: You're in the Infantry.

[Sam the Centipede]

Of course I understand that maps and charts are useful in some circumstances (and I do know how to navigate a boat or triangulate my position) but I have never bothered considered taking a course in emergency surgery using only a knife and fork just in case I am out in the wilds and might need to amputate someone's leg! Point is, ordinary folk can do amazing things with just the chippery in their pocket.

Now here's A Thing: the best compasses are made with slightly different weighting on the needle depending on whether they are for use in the northern or southern hemisphere. Inn't fizzicks wunnerful?

[bill_g]

On a humdrum level it's the same with phones etc.: what's the point in learning to take bearings with a compass and determine one's position on a map or chart if your phone will tell you where you are? At the same time, it can tell you what's on the lunch menu at the pub you're heading for, and whether your friends have arrived yet.

I love technology, I love stories, and I have a story about plain old fashioned compasses.

I don't have my notes in front of me, but I want to say this happened during the Obama years when there were plenty of infrastructure grants available to govt agencies to shoot for the moon with their favorite projects. This one involved building out dozens of public safety radio sites distributed around two counties. They would be at lower elevations to provide close in coverage similar in concept to cellphone towers - multiple small footprint sites with improved signal levels to serve all public safety agencies in the region. All sites would be linked together by licensed microwave in a big ring. It was a super idea and our company was all for it. We submitted our bid, and lost. It was awarded to a company out of Florida. Okay.

A couple years go by. This company did all the civil engineering, land acquisition, tower construction, building construction, equipment purchasing, and equipment installation. They put it all together and it didn't work. They spent months, and were not making any progress. So, the agency in control of the contracts contacted us for help. They wanted another pair of eyes to look at it so to speak. We spent days looking at the plans, reviewing the bills of materials, the site plans, the tower schedules, the engineering notes, the reported issues they encountered and their remediation efforts. All very professional and well thought out.

And then I plotted the microwave dish azimuths assigned to each site on a map, and knew the answer. They aimed the dishes according to declination correction applied in Florida, not Portland OR.



They aimed all the dishes too far east by almost 20 degrees putting them several miles off course at the intended far end target. We went to a couple sites to confirm this, and found it to be true. It would have been a simple fix to realign all the dishes, but we ran into other problems. The most common was tree obstruction. Arborists had been hired to trim trees in the intended path. That work had to be redone along the correct azimuth. The second issue was the orientation on the towers. Most of the dishes were mounted so they could not swing far enough west without stopping at the tower face. The dishes had to be relocated to another leg along the corrected azimuth.

Those were not the only issue we found, but it was the most fun. I take that back. The most fun mistake was the building wooden floor joists were not strong enough to hold up the equipment inside - a fact discovered when one collapsed heaving the equipment racks out a side wall onto the ground. Oh oops. They were also a bit stingy with the amount of concrete poured for the tower legs at a couple sites. And we won't talk about the power rating of the wiring used indoors. Or the lack of grounding. Those are all great tales of glory for another day.

[Sam the Centipede]

When the moss on trees trick doesn't work, there's the possibility of navigating by satellite dish. No, not by carrying one, but by examining those installed in buildings to pick up broadcast television, assuming they're pointing towards the location used for the country's most popular provider's geostationary satellites.

That satellite will be 42,164 km (26,199 miles) above the center of the Earth, over the equator and at at a fixed longitude. So measure the angles the dish makes against a true vertical (make a plumb line from bootlaces perhaps, unless you use velcro fixings?) and a horizontal reference line or north-south on a compass (don't forget compass variation!) and you can calculate your latitude and longitude by simple spherical trigonometry.

Of course, the calculation might require you to construct a crude theodolite from sticks and a rudimentary scientific calculator from stones and mud. And remember lots of numbers and trigonometric equations.

To be super-accurate you probably want to know your own altitude. Perhaps construct a simple barometer from a hollowed out tree trunk about 11 m (36 ft) long, using perhaps some carefully cleaned fish skin as a window? Inverting that full of water could be difficult so perhaps construct a simple vacuum air pump using a wild pig's bladder? It's easier if you can build a decent furnace to make glass from sand and perhaps smelt some cinnabar to make liquid mercury. But perhaps that's a little much, even for you "we don't need digital technology" types?

So simple! Calculating your longitude this way doesn't even require you to construct and maintain an accurate chronometer!

[bill_g]

Hilarious Sam, but looking at sat dishes you encounter is not a bad idea. You are correct about their Equitorial geo-stationary orbits. In the north hemisphere that will help you determine which way is southerly. All of them will deviate east or west of the zero deg north-south axis depending on which SV (space vehicle) they are aligned with. But it's confirming information when combined with sun position.

[northland10]

This might come as anything but a shock, but I have spent time teaching map and compass along with teaching orienteering (which is way more than just map and compass, despite what some scout unit leaders thought). When I took the Orienteering merit badge course at , I had a weak counselor who really did not cover much but just gave me the map for the course and sent me on my way. As I was rarely using the compass to find the markers I had thought I was cheating. I only found out later I was doing it absolutely correctly. I made sure the scouts I was teaching later learned they were doing orienteering not just map and compass work (and enforced it having a direct route between markets blocked by things like a lake). Also, in terms of safety, they had to go in groups and not like me going by myself through the woods in my first year at the camp, though I did enjoy it.

A compass is a tool in orienteering but only one. The biggest tools are your brain and your eyes. You need to plan your route and then pay attention to the features along that route to ensure you are in the correct place. These are skills that folks do not use whether with a compass or GPS.

When traveling, I would almost never let the GPS determine the route by itself, and even after it did, I would check it out myself. In areas I do not know well where it may be easy to miss something like a drive, I might go so far as to use Google Street View, if available, to see what the final location or turn onto a driveway looks like in general. I might also check on things I should not see but will if I go too far. This is the modern tech equivalent to the orienteering concept of "collecting features." As with topo maps, you should approach using man-made features with caution as they may have changed since the map was last updated.

The 2 main skills with orienteering or just driving with GPS are:

1. Plan your trip.
2. Pay attention.

To be fair, I am told I am rather good at noticing things such as surrounding details. Add that to my fondness of visual things, like maps, and it gives me a leg up on the needed skills that others would have. I also have some control issues, so I do not easily just follow something blindly (if I am taking some mass transportation method for the first time, or a new airport, or something, I will have figured out what I need to know before taking it).

[bill_g]

Great advice N10. Yes - the best tool you have is your brain. Use the clues around you to orient yourself. No matter if your are in an urban environment, or suburban, or rural, or wilderness, you can find your way if you look for the information.

For example the old advice moss grows on the north side of trees is true-ish. Some, but not all, species of moss and lichens try to avoid direct sunlight. They want dappled and indirect light. They like moisture and high mineral, low organic matter surfaces. IE: rocks, roofing materials, and mature trees with a thick bark.

So, in the thick woods with limited direct sunlight these mosses can grow on all sides. But along the forest apron there will be a distinct side the moss prefers. Now you have to determine if that is away from sunrise, sunset, or midday. You do that based on the current sun position. These two bits of data give you confirming information, and from that you can determine the northerly direction.

In man-made environments like cities, look in the deep shadows on the sidewalks, foundations, and brick walls. If it's a Goldilocks environment for moss (heat, moisture, pH), it will prefer the indirect light. If there are other buildings, structures, and visible roofs with similar growths, you can infer the northerly direction.

And remember that gps is an imperfect technology. You need a minimum of three SV (space vehicles) to get a location solution. In an urban canyon like most downtown cities, your gps will be lucky to have one or two SV's in view. It will be giving you it's best guess based on the last good position lock it had and the current SV's it has. It can be wrong by several blocks. Most phones do not incorporate dead reckoning based on a saved map, and your velocity. If you are under 25mph, like walking, it can deviate in any direction very quickly.

If you are aware of the limitations of the technology you are using, you can overcome the bad information it's giving you, and find your way.

[Flatpoint High]

they'd better practice - according to a doc I am watching in parts, we are but 1 year away from the "Kessler Effect" where a Collision between two dead satellites will cause the shut down of 21st century life by creating a chain reaction of colliding satellites
The doc is called "Killes of the Cosmos. It's on PRIME & YouTube:

[Sam the Centipede]

Hilarious Sam, but looking at sat dishes you encounter is not a bad idea. You are correct about their Equitorial geo-stationary orbits. In the north hemisphere that will help you determine which way is southerly. All of them will deviate east or west of the zero deg north-south axis depending on which SV (space vehicle) they are aligned with. But it's confirming information when combined with sun position.

C'mon, it's better than that! Several western Europe countries get their satellite television broadcast from Astra satellites at 19.2°E, the UK and Ireland from Astra satellites at 28.2°E. In any one country (one usually knows which country one is in, yes?), it's fairly constant which satellite is used, except for enthusiasts with steerable dishes. There's a lot of information there for a fix … if one's trigonometry is good.

But chaps, one navigating possibility your estrogen-challenged brains haven't hit: ask somebody for directions!

[bill_g]

There is a debris field up there that will become a problem sooner than later. I made a lot of money when Galaxy 4 suddenly went dark in the mid 90's, and lots of businesses lost their credit card processing abilities. The internet was still in dev. Hughes Network Earth Stations were super popular. Uptime was very high, and there was a significant ROI when compared to telco leased line service. Banks, gas stations, 7-11's, malls, nation wide retailers, and thousands of other businesses had Hughes dishes on the roof providing secure two-way low speed data communitions capable of processing all of the sales transactions for North America 24/7/365.

We were a dealer and we had a whole crew based out of Salem to sell, install, and maintain Hughes across the PNW. G4 went dark and businesses totally freaked out when they couldn't take credit cards. We were solidly busy for two weeks pressing anyone we could into the effort. Good times.

I've always wondered how bad things would get if the gps system collapsed. GPS disciplined clocks are used in every large network for sychronization. The more sophisticated units incorporate receivers for the Russian, Chinese, Indian, and Euro equivalents. So, the impact may be less than we worry about.

[pipistrelle]

I am reminded of the Star Trek episodes in which advanced civilizations degenerate due to war or other cataclysmic changes, and then they can't remember how to repair the machines their ancestors made.

[Reddog]

I think it’s valid to worry about our dependence on GPS, internet, etc. We went for years with cable tv, and finally got fed up with the increase in prices. I got a big yagi antenna and put it in the attic, (Wife said I wasn’t putting that ugly thing on our roof). Best thing I ever did. I get all the Kansas City stations, and was able to watch the Chiefs playoff game the other day without streaming Peacock.
I am guilty of not knowing my parents technology. My father was born in 1909, he took pride in being able to drive a team of horses. We moved to town when I was 3, so I’m a city boy. I would be lost if I had to hitch up horses to plow, even though my folks still plowed with horses when we moved. Another more modern technology is; my father described to me about driving a Model T. I wouldn’t be able to drive one from the way he described it. Apparently on the farm we didn’t have a rotary phone. My siblings said our phone rang with a distinct pattern. Something like 3 longs and a short.
I do also want to thank Bill_G. Everything he has said all makes sense.

[northland10]

Knowing how to use earlier tech could be helpful, but somewhere, I have a picture of my mother's ancestors using something similar to the photo below. It looks scary. I'm not sure I want to know how to use it.

[bill_g]

Wow. That's a great photo.

[RTH10260]

Knowing how to use earlier tech could be helpful, but somewhere, I have a picture of my mother's ancestors using something similar to the photo below. It looks scary. I'm not sure I want to know how to use it.

My guess is that the horse front right is pulling a rope, likely over some pullies, that lifts the hay on the trebuchet like contraption to the top of the pile.

[bill_g]

I want to know how those guys get off that pile!

[realist]

Yeah, but each technology that is obsolete means we lose a lot of valuable information. You know what isn't on Luke's list of things that are Gone:? CD/DVDs.

When floppies became obsolete, I had to transfer all my photos and important stuff to CDs. Now you have to pay extra for a CD player in any new computer. They're obsolete. They don't even hold 64 GB of data! I am transferring all my photos and stuff to flash drives.

Next, flash drives will be obsolete too also. Prove me wrong.

... and the day is coming when your cell phone is obsolete, and your phone is on your wrist.

And not everyone else is as careful about switching documents and photos from one storage medium to the next. We've lost a lot of stuff, if'n you add it up.

Whodathunk in the '50s it would become real.