Taking Care of Maya - FL CPS/Munchausen case

[pipistrelle]

Were you trying to inflict emotional distress on her? No

Any reason to believe that anyone wanted to inflict emotional distress on maya? No

Was Cathi Bedy trying to inflict emotional distress on Maya? No

There aren't enough eye rolls.

[Kriselda Gray]

I think if I was on that jury, the behavior of the plaintiff's attorney's might just prejudice me *against* their client, which I realize is a no-no, but I just can't stand people who are so rude, sarcastic and obnoxious.

I'd also wonder why they would think the people at the hospital were trying to make her worse or inflict intentional emotional distress on her, etc. I haven't seen anything in what you've written that gives any idea how they're justifying their claims

[Sam the Centipede]

I know little of this case other than what I read here, which is very interesting, thanks to those blogging it here.

I glanced at Xitter to see what other coverage there is. I don't claim to have found a representative sample, but gosh!, those who have been persuaded by the Netflix documentary (which I haven't seen) are angry at the hospital! The hatred against the medical professionals is horrible, it's all "think about what they did to poor Maya!!!" crap. Every facial expression or movement by a defense witness is interpreted as sneering contempt for the plaintiffs. Witnesses' deflection of questions about matters outside their knowledge or actions is interpreted as dishonesty or blame-shifting.

They say "Maya still has CRPS" which you folk here have comprehensively refuted, both from reported testimony and your own knowledge.

The whole thing baffles me. Going on your reports here, which I am confident are honest, whatever the plaintiffs are claiming must be nonsense, Maya clearly suffered abusive control from her mother particularly, and her father appears to have been complicit. It seems classic Munchausen By Proxy, but I'm no diagnostician.

Also the judge's behavior seems odd in excluding much potentially damning defense evidence, so the defendants will certainly appeal any judgement against them. Surely it embarrasses a judge when an appeal succeeds on issues that s/he should have managed better?

Ultimately I cannot see how the plaintiffs can prevail, and nor should they. The mother should have been imprisoned if she lived, the father perhaps too.

[pipistrelle]

What would decide me are:

• lack of diagnosis and diagnoses that don't fit (e.g., asthma)

• volume of drugs given to a child and the signs of addiction

• insistence on a laundry list of fairly powerful drugs; you don't really want to take steroids if you can help it, that is, unless you truly have severe asthma

• the mother's overall oddness and the father's behavior

• the fact she's sitting there, clearly not in pain

• hospital weaning her off that crap

• much more

I know nothing about Netflix "documentary" other than I don't trust such things as they're meant to be marketable, not accurate.

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

Dr. Sally(?) Smith's insurance carrier settled for $2.5 million. I can't figure why.

Here is a SKEWED article about the settlement. https://thenetline.com/maya-kowalskis-settlement/

Another view: https://www.womenshealthmag.com/life/a4 ... e-of-maya/

[RVInit]

Yes, I am seeing the same commentary in all the people who are watching the trial. Exactly the same. I also believe at least one person of the 12 that are in the jury box watched that special and is dug in, based on that jurors questioning. Only six of the twelve will be deliberating, though, so who knows if that person will be on the jury.

Having said that, the tide seems to be turning as to the jury questioning. The last couple of witnesses the juror that is clearly buying into the plaintiff BS has either not asked questions or toned them down. Some of the other juror, however, seem to be really picking up on the BS thrown by the plaintiff and asking questions in a way that seem to be picking up on how the plaintiff keeps trying to attach nefarious intentions to ordinary thing, such as the placement of the beside commode. Maya was in a wheelchair, claimed to be unable to use her legs (they were probably not strong enough to stand up as they were weak from not using at this point) but yet, somehow the commode was supposed to be put where she could transfer herself onto the commode (according to the plaintiff). They are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Well, the commode thing was probably put to rest by this morning. Several nurses reiterated, Maya needed help transferring and you can't safely transfer a patient onto the commode without space between the bed and the commode. And one flat out looked at the jury and said "Maya was not able to get herself out of bed and onto the commode by herself. She would never have been using it by herself". I hope that freaking commode thing is put to rest at this point.

[RVInit]

The Netflix special is clearly a hit piece on the hospital. I don't know why people fall for that kind of thing. When I first heard about this case, all I knew is a poor little girl with CRPS was removed from her treatment by the hospital. I was absolutely appalled. I have CRPS and if she really did have CRPS and really had been not treated for it that would have been cruelty beyond what I can tell you.

Because I have this condition, and because I went through extreme emotional trauma in my search for a doctor to believe me, I was originally thinking this poor little girl had the same experience. And I did not want to watch the Netflix or the trial because I believed it would just retraumatize and dredge up all that suffering that I went through. Suffering to the point of almost committing suicide almost 24 years ago. I had the plan in place for how I would do it and everything. I was very close to carrying it out.


Maclilly asked if anyone knew about this case (on a different thread, see below) and I mentioned some of this. And then I thought I would watch the special only up to a point where I felt like it was just too much. I ended up watching that special and I am left thinking how sad it is that so many in our society have so few critical thinking skills that all the signs of that Netflix show point to pure propaganda. And they really don't recognise it. Only a few people who are on the YouTube commentary that accompany the daily testimony seem to see through the plaintiff BS, but they all watched that propaganda prior to seeing the trial and most are locked in to the point of calling others "trolls" if they dare to even say "why don't we wait for all the evidence first to make up our minds".

I am going to be far more traumatized knowing what I have gone through for 24 years and seeing this poseur become the "face" of a condition that has tortured me for almost 24 year now. I cannot watch the verdict, it will kill me if that family wins a verdict.

Some of Beata's emails are really eye opening. She threatens to sue everyone at the drop of a hat. This family has sued more than just the hospital, they sued the school board because Maya didn't qualify for Homebound Homeschool, and the school board gave in. I could go on and on about how many times this family sues people.

Five minutes into this special I knew this girl did not have CRPS and I continued watching it. I actually wrote messages about it on that thread.

you can read all about my journey from feeling sorry for this girl to understanding that she never had this condition at all. And through this trial my eyes were opened more and more as the case proceeded. At this point I do believe absolutely MBP and the father was complicit. He admitted to believing his wife had this condition after reading about it and felling like he was reading his own family story. But now she's dead and he's suing everybody and their mother.

Read about my initial mis-impressions and how I was reacting to the Netflix special in real time here:

viewtopic.php?p=219529&hilit=Maya#p219529

[Sam the Centipede]

Thanks RV, your insights have been invaluable.

If – IF! – the verdict from this hearing is for the plaintiffs, don't get needlessly miserable. It would be bad, but the defendants clearly have plenty of material to speak and argue that such a verdict is unsafe. I can't see the hospital running away from that fight.

[RVInit]

Two nurses testified this morning. They were very credible, talked about how Maya acted in the hospital, that she would sometimes feel “down” and they would make special efforts to make sure she got to do what she wanted to do, they would sit and make bracelets with her, have Child Life take her to the piano, activity room, etc.

One nurse was asked which nurses Maya seemed to prefer. She indicated that Maya liked the younger nurses and that the staff allowed Maya to fill out a list of the nurses she preferred and that the charge nurse would try to assign Maya the ones she liked. Maya nominated several of them for Daisy Awards. The nurse on the witness stand was surprised to see in Maya’s journal that her name had the most number of stars around in than any other nurse, 6 stars.

Maya has never been in the courtroom when the nurses have testified. She either leaves or she comes in after they are finished. She said awful things about them, she didn’t like any of them, they were nasty to her. I think at this point it’s just impossible to believe anything other than she was very young when her father filed the lawsuit, they are throwing every count against every aspect of her treatment that they can think of and Maya has heard nothing from the adults around her except that the hospital was terrible and everyone was lying to her. She even told Dr Dolan that she no longer wanted to talk to Dr Dolan because her lawyer had told her that everyone at the hospital, including Dr Dolan were lying to her.

The defense rested their case and we will be starting rebuttal.

[RVInit]

Thanks RV, your insights have been invaluable.

If – IF! – the verdict from this hearing is for the plaintiffs, don't get needlessly miserable. It would be bad, but the defendants clearly have plenty of material to speak and argue that such a verdict is unsafe. I can't see the hospital running away from that fight.

I appreciate all the kindness and compassion from the Fogbow who are reading the thread. I know already the hospital will fight, they've put on the record at least two "potential appellate proffers" is what they called them. So, yeah, they are not going to just let this family walk away on verdict day with a big check. And I don't blame them. Mr K knows damn well his case is bullcrap.

And Maya knows damn well she liked the nursing staff and was treated with care and respect while she was there. She can't even face the nurses on the witness stand, she leaves whenever any nurse is going to testify and comes back for other witnesses.

Both Maya and her father have used the excuse that they were "lying" so Maya could go home at the time they made certain statements, particularly the ones that seriously undercut their case. If I was the defense I would bring that up in closing - you have heard both Maya and her father admit to being willing to lie to get something they wanted. Something along those lines. Either they were lying then or are lying now and have indicated a willingness to lie to get something they wanted. And now asking for $220 million.

Some counts are thrown out. Any thing the jury gives them should be less than this, since some fairly substantial counts got a directed verdict in favor of the defense.

[RVInit]

Rebuttal Plaintiff-

Dr Chopra

Claims all over body CRPS is common (not true)

Says CRPS is permanent (True for adults, but children, wspecially young, once they go into remission, it is over with)

He says not really good and badk days, they are all pretty bad days, no relapse or remission, (contradicting Maya's claim of good days bad days)

----------------------------------------------
defense qustions

He does not have hospital priveleges, has not had them for over 20 years,

[Sam the Centipede]

I see that this witness is Dr. Predeep Chopra – I had wondered if super-quack well-beingness guru Deepak Chopra had somehow become involved. I wonder if they are related?

[RVInit]

Rebuttal - Jack K

(Anderson is wasting time as usual and Judge says "tik tok, tik tok, bring in the jury")


Maya is smiling at the jury all afternoon, since the nurses left and she came back. She does this lot

During defense there was an issue with Sally Smith and her interaction. What were you doing when you first met Sally Smith? I was in the room with Maya she was getting a bowel cleanout, the nurse was very helpful, the nurse walked out and in walked a woman with a lab coat

What were you physically doing? I was cleaning up feces off the floor and putting her on the commode


She claimed that Sally smith had a "cigarette voice" (she does not)

Why did Beata write emails in "Maya's voice". I'm from a family of eight children and in the baby books it starts out "I got my first haircut", etc, She thought that the baby book was a good idea. After seeing the emails that Beata was doing, that reminded me of that (those emails are bizarre)

I was the one who chose to go to the emergency room. I was in the Ronals McDonald house, nobody told me to go there, it was the most severe I saw my doughter. and I'm the one who chose to take her to ACH (I don't know why he's sayign this. It just makes his own daughters quack doctor look more quack and more of a liar. DR Hamma claimed that HE told them to go to ACH. One of them is lying)


A letter was wrtten to Dr K saying that he thought someone said Cathi Bedy was providing "counseling" to Maya (this was someoneone telling someone who told Jack attorney. Defense objected due to hearsay, but judge allowed it in)

Variability of Maya's condition. We had multiple depositions. She had a lot of bd days. I'm sure the clips were the good days.

You didn't video her on days she was huddled in her room? No

------------------------------------------------------

Dr Hamma - you don't remember him referring you to the emergency room? No, I left with Maya took her to get something to eat (all of the testimony was that she hadn't eaten in 5 days)

Exhibit - he's reading it. It's a written referral from Dr Hanna and iwritten the previous day for Maya to be taken to a nutritionist because he felt Maya was "severely malnourished". Jack says Beata is the one who took Maya this previous day, and that he did no persoally receive this referral. He's hedging now on which one took Maya because in the first question he claimed he took Maya for te whole "series" of infusions. (Dr Hanna did 4-5 day infusions on each of the times they took her to see him)


Turning to brighter news - photo of Maya, wearing Jeans and a midriff top. He says it was taken in May 2023

Photo of Mr K, Maya, Kyle, all of them are laughing, smiling, looking very happy. What date? A little before, I would say 2023, I couldn't give you a month. (I am doubting this. It was actually shown as part of a video on the Netflix special. Of course, it was a piece of one sided propaganda, so maybe they did throw it together in record time)

photo of Maya and her boygriend - She is wearing a very very short green dress with massive cleavage showing and very high heels. Smiling up at her boyfriend. (She claimed to be so embarrassed to having any skin showing when photos were taken, but this dress is so short there is no way she could bend over. I bet if she tried to get into a car wearing that, there would be lots of her private parts, front and back, showing as she tries to get into a car. That dress is unusually short. Also major cleavage for a supposedly "modest" girl) Homecoming 2022?

Photo - Maya and boyfriend, they are sitting down her. Here dress is so short she had to turn sideways and cover her front with her hands. The dress is so far up her thighs that it is embarrassing to look at. Also, major cleavage. She's not large on top, but in terms of how low cut that is, whatever breasts she does have are very exposed) Homecoming this year, very recently


This homecoming was during this trial, within the last month. Nother homecoming 2920 series of photos showing them clearly having a great time.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Photos taken by professional photographer? Ues

[RVInit]

I see that this witness is Dr. Predeep Chopra – I had wondered if super-quack well-beingness guru Deepak Chopra had somehow become involved. I wonder if they are related?

I don't know if they are related, but here is some background on what his area of work appears to be.


He claims to be an expert in CRPS, but this is the organization he works with. They specialize in a different condition, not CRPS. EDS can contribute to development of CRPS, associated with surgery, which Maya didn't have, that would be TYPE II CRPS. I see nothing that would make me believe he was any kind of real expert in CRPS, particularly since much of what he said is hogwash.

https://www.ehlers-danlos.com/about-us/

[RVInit]

Looking at corrective action notice and corrective action policy of Cathi Bedy and ACH respectively

----------------------------------------
Served as CMO at Brandon Regional Hospital

As CMO you had purview over medical staff office, medical staff, and quality assurance, medical eduction,

Division medical Officer was over he local. Not over the HR department. Was respnonsible for my teams, 2 terminations of Chief Medical officers. uilding and Rebuilding my teams.

As to Hospital Staff, Nurses, social workers, etc, they are managed by HR, correct?

There is always an executive with accountability of that department. You did not have pruview over HR department.

So, functions of HR and functions of Chief Nursing Officer you did not have authotiry over them. Over Financai? NO. incluing Social Workers? Correct

No performance eval for nurses or social workers? Correct

-----------------------------------------
interaction between HR and CMO? Yes, have to follow their policies? Yes, They are my "ambassador to the process".

This is the guy that testified for the plaintiff that he cam up with a way to organize a hospital group and his process is the only correct process and no other process works.

----------------------------------------------

JHACH follows an organization

[RVInit]

A couple of big things happened outside the jury. One is another waste of time nothingburger game by the plaintiff.

The other is the defense has notified the judge that they intend to motion for a juror to be removed from the panel and want to know when the judge wants to hear that motion. I am certain they are talking about the juror that has been acting as an extension for the plaintiff right from day one. I will be pissed off if that juror ends up not getting kicked and even more furious if that juror ends up deliberating. That juror sounds exactly like one of the dozens in comment sections that clearly watched the Netflix hit piece and nothing will ever change their mind, not even sworn testimony. My opinions have adjusted and fine tuned throughout as I'm receiving more information, I really don't understand how a person can get so baked in despite so much evidence to the contrary.

So, the defense has to write a motion due Thursday (tomorrow) by 5 PM and the plaintiff has to write their rebuttal, as I'm sure they will by Friday 5 PM. When jurors write questions, their juror number is at the top of their page, they do not put juror questions on one page. So, they know which jurors are writing which questions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
the Nothingburger.

The hospital goes through accreditation every three years. It's a major event for hospitals, a large contingent of people come in and kick the tires, look under the hood, inspect every document, make observations, a big deal. And JHACH has passed all of them with flying colors according to any information available. Nurses stand in line to work there. There is hardly any openings in that hospital because it's a great work environment apparently, very little turnover. And nurses want to work there because it's a feather in their cap to work at such a hospital. They are the number one rated children's hospital in the Southeast.

So, in the August of 2018, almost two years after Maya was released from the hospital they went through another accreditation. Again passed with flying colors. The defense had no idea of the game playing by the plaintiff and did not come prepared with anything related to accreditation event of 2018.

The JH Heart Institute, a totally different place, but owned by the same company (John's Hopkins) self reported an incident that happened in September 2018. There was a code put on that Institute until after they could prove it was a one time incident, did not affect any other JH area, a single incident, and it was completely satisfied to the accreditation board within less than one month.

So, the plaintiff brings in a rebuttal witness today to try to get him to bring this up. They had to ask the jury to leave the room while he profferred testimony. He did not have any information about the incident, but he had dug around and found a follow up report about it. He did not have any idea of the agency that put the "code" on, which JH areas it covered, but he kept saying because it was such and such a code that means it's systemic and egregious.

So, now the judge is furious because the defense brought a witness to talk about their accreditation and had testified that JHACH had been accredited since a certain year, had passed all accreditation review periods with flying colors. Which is true. But now this guy is casting doubt.

So, the defense has to now dig for all the accreditation reports and they have pointed out to the judge that those reports are hundreds of pages long. So, now we are going to have a delay while the plaintiff reads them and tries to nitpick for things this witness can come back and insinuate things from.

The judge is furious.

[pipistrelle]

I was curious about the photos. CourtTV has some of them.
https://www.courttv.com/news/photos-sho ... lth-scare/

[RVInit]

I was curious about the photos. CourtTV has some of them.
https://www.courttv.com/news/photos-sho ... lth-scare/

The vast majority of those photos were not allowed in. Only one each of the Homecoming photos came in. The one in the short red dress is from one of those homecoming.

Maya got angry and asked to be allowed to get on the witness stand AGAIN during rebuttal, so she was on twice today. She definitely has anger issues, and it showed in front of the jury. She accused the defense of going through her social media (and the judge didn't stop her) to look for photos.

On cross exam, the defense, Mr Shapiro, in his very characteristic quiet and respectful voice, said "I'm so sorry you are angry about this, but we actually did not look for these photos, they were sent to us by members of the public".


Apparently there are people out there who know Maya and are on her social media that may be watching the trial and feeling like there is more to the Maya story than the K family is telling. ALL of those photos were sent in by at least one person from the general public to the defense team.

Edit: She also claimed that she only went to prom for an hour. That she bought her dress one day before because she didn't know if she was going to go. and that she went out for Halloween (no photo was allowed of that) for 2 hours.

I hope the hospital puts in surrebuttal case. They have already indicted they might and Shapiro was circling and writing details of Maya claims

I doubt the judge will allow any surrebuttal that shows Maya to be lying, he seems to protect her at all cost. However, it's her condition and her statements that are driving almost all of the claims in this case, so that is really frustrating.

One thing I know she lied about. In her testimony a couple weeks ago she claimed that the nursing staff had tried to force a feeding tube through her nose and that it hurt so much that had to stop. Today, she was talking about her father being at her bedside when they got news that he had to leave, and she said she had a feeding tube and couldn't talk to him because of that - so of course, one more instance of the evil hospital, not allowing her to talk to her father because of a tube.

[pipistrelle]

Maya opens up to People about her painful rare condition, etc.
https://people.com/take-care-of-maya-mu ... de-7509016

[RVInit]

Here is an excellent write up of Dr Mendez testimony. I also wrote it up above, but this is another writeup, consistent with how I interpreted his testimony. His testimony was very telling in my view. A full year before JHACH and he reported back to Maya's primary care doctor concerns about the mother and Maya exaggerating Maya's health problems.

https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local ... %20illness.

[RVInit]

Mr Shapiro is going to do the closing argument for the defense. He is a rock star lawyer. If I ever needed an attorney, I would be looking for someone like him. I really love his style. He talks in a very quiet, very respectful, even to witnesses for the other side, he's very polite. At the same time he's slicing them up. He makes lawyering into a supreme art form.

[RVInit]

Here are two of the photos. The one in the red dress was allowed. The one with the white clothing is from Halloween. This girl got on the witness stand and boo hooed about being so modest that it upset her to have photos taken in shorts and her sports bra.

MayaHomecoming.jpg (61.82 KiB) Viewed 3150 times

MayaHalloween.jpg (15.82 KiB) Viewed 3150 times

[Sam the Centipede]

That is a pretty girl, but it is not a modest girl.

I'm inclined to be sympathetic to Maya as a young person living a life after her travails and her abusive childhood. We know how much bad upbringing damages minds.

But JCACH is blameless and sympathy for Maya does not imply harming an apparently excellent facility. Shame on the Kowalskis. Shame on their supporters who have parked whatever critical thinking skills they might aspire to.

[RVInit]

I forgot to mention something funny. Dr Kirkpatrick is the non board certified quack that originally diagnosed Maya with CRPS after mom researched it and came into his office with a textbook description. He gave her only 1 or 2 treatments, which they needed a GoFundMe because they cost around $10K each. He referred her to go to Mexico for Dr Cantu ketamine "coma" because the $20K treatments didn't work to reduce Maya's self reported pain.

Kirkpatrick referred Maya to Dr Hanna after she got back from Mexico and within a short period was self reporting right back up to 10 out of 10 pain. Dr Hanna gave her the huge doses for 4 to 5 days every month or 5 weeks, approx. A total of 55 treatments over a 9 month period. Kirkpatrick and Hanna insist that Maya needed the ketamine treatment and that the hospital not continuing with the high dosage treatments are now harming her for the rest of her life. "All Children's Hospital interrupted her treatment, therefore she will have CRPS symptoms popping up over and over again forever"

So, the defense asked Dr Kirkpatrick if he ever saw Maya after she got out of the hospital. Yes, he did. What did you recommend for her to do for treatment? Pool exercises and physical therapy. Lots and lots of exercise in the pool. I think she went to Hanna once after she got out of the hospital and he also declined to treat her again with ketamine.



So, once Maya's mother was reported for possible child abuse, these doctors who claimed that ketamine was the only answer for Maya not only declined to treat her again with ketamine, but recommended some form of physical therapy.

Also, Maya went through on cross exam, her exercise regimen. She starts with swimming, walks, runs, does cardio workouts etc. No wheelchair, dating, going out with friends (she tries to minimize and pretend she doesn't do this very much), probably got red carpet star treatment at the film festival in New York as the central figure in the "Take Care of Maya" Netflix hit piece. That wasn't allowed to be mentioned of course. They were allowed to bring up that she attended a film festival in New York

She bragged about how many colleges are now offering her entrance, but then when she testified on the part of the trial for damages she claims she doesn't even know if she will be able to go to college at all. Because of her good day/bad day.

Which didn't prevent her from doing all that physical activity plus being president of the student body, president of two clubs at school, she's either first or second in her class as far as grades, has a boyfriend, attended Homecoming the last two years, made a trip to New York City...and on and on.

[RVInit]

That is a pretty girl, but it is not a modest girl.

I'm inclined to be sympathetic to Maya as a young person living a life after her travails and her abusive childhood. We know how much bad upbringing damages minds.

But JCACH is blameless and sympathy for Maya does not imply harming an apparently excellent facility. Shame on the Kowalskis. Shame on their supporters who have parked whatever critical thinking skills they might aspire to.

I agree with that. She was 10 years old listening to her mother telling her what she had and her family and attorney all telling her the hospital was lying to her. I give her a pass for believing this as a child.

I do believe that at age 17 with her considerable intellect and realizing that neither Dr K or Dr Hanna have recommended that she return to ketamine treatments even though supposedly that was the only thing that could help her, that she knows on some level that the hospital did not harm her and she must understand how much better off she is. And that she got that way using the exact treatment (except not nearly the amount of psychological help she needs) recommended by JHACH.