US v. Trump - Espionage Act - (9:23-cr-80101) District Court, S.D. Florida

[RVInit]

I still want to know why they didn't search or get a warrant to search Bedminster? It's old news that those boxes were headed there.

Add it to the long list of fuckhead crimes, and crimes committed by members of Congress, that Main Justice and SDNY took a pass on. Starting with, "Oh, Georgia? Election Interference? Nah...."

Yes. And Garland waiting until he had absolutely no choice whatsoever but to assign a special counsel. He bent over backwards and made every excuse to just ignore Trump's criminality. The fact that Trump got even MORE votes in 2020 than he got in 2016 should have been enough to realize that this man can only be stopped in the criminal court system, we can't count on the decency of everyday Americans to reject this bag of pus. Garland is way too chicken shit to be in the position of a prosecutor, much less the freaking AGOTUS.

[Volkonski]

re boxes on the plane: it's my understanding that the former guy has this fetish that certain boxes must always travel with him. I infer that in this case no boxes were left behind at Bedford but returned to his office and the now famous bathroom at M-a-L. So no need to search the Bedford property.

"This is my box. This is my box. I never travel without my box."

[RVInit]

The search of Mar-a-Lago took place after the boxes were spirited away to Bedminster if I remember correctly. He normally returns to Mar-a-Lago in September, and I think the search took place in August. I will bet any amount of money he still has those documents and some of what they already know they are still missing are among those items.

[raison de arizona]

This thread is an interesting little window into some of the swamp creature MAGAts populating at least part of the FBI.

SCOOP: 2nd edition of my weekly newsletter, FOIA Files, is out (SUBSCRIBE!), based on FBI docs related to the classified docs Trump took to MAL & how the Aug 2022 search roiled some of FBI's rank & file

"Did this really just happen? Am I dreaming?

https://bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/ ... mn0up0TzFU

[raison de arizona]

With the possible exception of his claim that they weren't hiding the documents, I don't think there's anything new here. I don't think he ever denied taking the documents. His argument has always been that he was legally entitled to have them.

He may have said before that they weren't hiding them. I don't recall. It's pretty clear, though, that he was trying to hide them, what with his having his staff move them around when he knew the FBI was looking for them.

He actually kinda did. For 3 days after the raid, he was still denying that there was anything there. Then someone on Twitter suggested the novel legal strategy that Nixon took documents and due to the Presidential Records act Trump was entitled, and suddenly Turnip "remembered" that he was totally entitled and they were his property.

BEFORE that he denied he had taken documents, then he gave some back and insisted through his lawyer that was everything and he had absolutely no documents left. Then the Raid happened and the lawyer had serious egg on her face as she had unwittingly or wittingly committed perjury.

I know, it's hard to remember when you are exposed to wall to wall trump propaganda, but that's the rough timetable.

But the key is that for 3 days he was floundering around trying to invent a justification, and when someone else suggested one he adopted it. Thats the key point that shows he is lying.

I'm old enough to remember when the story was that the FBI planted them.

[Suranis]

I'm old enough to remember when the story was that the FBI planted them.

And that they LOOKED IN MELANIA'S BEDROOM!!!

[raison de arizona]

I'm old enough to remember when the story was that the FBI planted them.

And that they LOOKED IN MELANIA'S BEDROOM!!!

Her underwear even. She was concerned that the FBI had touched it, so she actually replaced it all.

The word she used was "contaminated."

[pipistrelle]

FBI and Secret Service are both infested with MAGA political loyalists.

[RVInit]

FBI and Secret Service are both infested with MAGA political loyalists.

Yup. Housecleaning is definitely in order.

I am really hoping that if Biden wins this election and we get the Senate he will break lose given he has no future election to lose. The Supreme Court needs fixing. He already set up a commission and has been sitting on the recommendations. I want to see action on that front this next term. Also want to see some of these Magats weeded out or separated and put into roles where they can't do any damage. Early retirement sounds like a good idea for some of them. They clearly don't give a shit about the oaths they took.

[raison de arizona]

JUST IN: Judge Cannon, in the MAL case, orders Trump and Special Counsel to submit proposed jury instructions and verdict forms regarding the "essential elements" of the Espionage Act.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .407.0.pdf

[bob]

[andersweinstein]

That is quite a demand for proposed jury instructions when government strenuously disputes that understanding of the law (the PRA):

With respect to the proposed language pertinent to the issue of “unauthorized possession” specifically, the parties must engage with the following competing scenarios and offer alternative draft text that assumes each scenario to be a correct formulation of the law to be issued to the jury, while reserving counterarguments.

So, an order to give proposed jury instructions that must assume the defense's (wacky) theory of the law is correct and reserving any conterarguments. Wheeler raises the question: how does one deal with this procedurally? Any ideas from the IAALs?

[Rolodex]

But aren't juries supposed to be deciders of facts, not of laws? The question of whether those documents were personal or not seems to be a question of law to me. Is this something DoJ can appeal to 11th?

[realist]

But aren't juries supposed to be deciders of facts, not of laws? The question of whether those documents were personal or not seems to be a question of law to me. Is this something DoJ can appeal to 11th?

Jury instructions set out the law juries are supposed to follow when deciding on the facts.

[pipistrelle]

But aren't juries supposed to be deciders of facts, not of laws? The question of whether those documents were personal or not seems to be a question of law to me. Is this something DoJ can appeal to 11th?

Jury instructions set out the law juries are supposed to follow when deciding on the facts.

Lifetime-appointed judge is just asking what the law is.

[Maybenaut]

I haven't followed this that closely, but I don't think it's that unusual for a judge to ask the parties to submit competing jury instructions. It's a starting point for litigating what the instructions will ultimately say.

[Dr. Ken]

[raison de arizona]

This second scenario is legally insane. If that were the case, then just grant Trump’s motion to dismiss on PRA grounds so DOJ bring it to the 11th circuit for a quick reversal.

It’s not about that, it’s about delay.

[andersweinstein]

I haven't followed this that closely, but I don't think it's that unusual for a judge to ask the parties to submit competing jury instructions. It's a starting point for litigating what the instructions will ultimately say.

This is happening pre-trial in connection with a motion to dismiss based on a reading of the applicability of the Presidential Records Act (PRA) which prosecution has argued is incorrect (along with just about every other legal commenter). AND the order requires them to furnish jury instructions based on *assuming* two pro-defense interpretations of the PRA which are both incorrect according to the prosecution. The second option, in particular, looks like it could support a dismissal at this stage based on agreed facts. But meanwhile there has been no appealable ruling on the motion to dismiss or the proper interpretation of the PRA as applied to the charges. Is that a normal way to litigate jury instructions?

It looks to me (insofar as I understand it) as if Cannon is looking for help on whether she can dismiss now on the defense interpretation, or whether there would still be fact questions left for the jury even on the defense interpretation. But nowhere crediting the extensive DOJ argument that the PRA doesn't even apply.

[Dave from down under]

Jury Instructions:

A) His Royal Highness Donnie I was exercising his Divine prerogative that nullifies all Constitutions of the United States of America.

B) see A)

[pipistrelle]

Apparently this is true--Cannon's husband worked as a restaurant exec for a former mobster who contributes to tfg. Could be innocent but interesting.



Her confirmation wasn't controversial, it appears. I couldn't recall.

[pipistrelle]

Why Did Two of Judge Aileen Cannon’s Law Clerks Suddenly Quit?
Donald Trump’s favorite judge is suddenly losing law clerks.
https://newrepublic.com/post/180023/jud ... lerks-quit

[RTH10260]

an analysis

The Mar-a-Lago judge is entertaining Trump’s most brazen defenses
Trump and prosecutors in the classified documents case have been told to draft jury instructions that could result in ensuring acquittal

Hugo Lowell
Thu 21 Mar 2024 11.00 CET

The federal judge overseeing Donald Trump’s prosecution on charges of retaining classified documents appears to be entertaining his most brazen defenses that could ultimately result in ensuring the acquittal of the former president.

The issue revolves around an order from the US district judge Aileen Cannon on Monday asking Trump and prosecutors in the office of the special counsel Jack Smith to draft jury instructions for two scenarios that gave extraordinary credit to Trump’s defense theories.

The two jury instruction scenarios, as conceived by Cannon, were so beneficial to Trump and so potentially incorrect on the law of the Espionage Act that it would bring into serious doubt whether it made sense for prosecutors to take the case to trial.

In her two-page order, Cannon asked for both parties to draft jury instructions supposing it was true that Trump had the power under the Presidential Records Act to turn any White House document – classified or not – into personal records: records he was authorized to retain.

The authorization issue is key to the case because Trump was indicted for unlawfully retaining national security materials under the Espionage Act. If Trump could show that he was somehow authorized to keep the documents at Mar-a-Lago, it would preclude his prosecution.

The first scenario envisioned that it was up to the jury to decide whether prosecutors could show beyond a reasonable doubt whether Trump had designated each classified document he took to Mar-a-Lago as a personal document.

The second scenario envisioned that Trump had the “sole authority” to turn a document he came across as president into a personal record that he could keep, and the very fact that he took them with him to Mar-a-Lago meant it was a personal record.



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ents-trial

[RTH10260]

Why Did Two of Judge Aileen Cannon’s Law Clerks Suddenly Quit?
Donald Trump’s favorite judge is suddenly losing law clerks.
https://newrepublic.com/post/180023/jud ... lerks-quit

who up and quit on her rather than finish out their one-year terms,



Both clerks reportedly quit in October and December 2023, around the time that Cannon made clear she was open to delaying Trump’s trial past its original May start date.

[pipistrelle]

https://wapo.st/3TKImm8 (gift link)

‘Very, very troubling’: Judges, lawyers flummoxed by Judge Cannon
The jurist overseeing Donald Trump’s classified documents case in Florida has raised eyebrows and alarms with her latest order