The Weight-Management Thread

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Slim Cognito
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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#101

Post by Slim Cognito »

I'd read about the body going into starvation mode during a diet, which drops the metabolic rate making the process that much harder. Is this saying that the body stays in starvation mode even after the weight is dropped and maintenance begins?

If I'm reading it correctly, that sucks! If I'm not, it still sucks.

The only thing that's worked for me? A debilitating GI infection followed by stress from trump as president. I don't recommend it.

I expect it will be followed by quick weight (re) gain as soon as the bastard is out of office.
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MN-Skeptic
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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#102

Post by MN-Skeptic »

Slim Cognito wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:55 pm
I'd read about the body going into starvation mode during a diet, which drops the metabolic rate making the process that much harder. Is this saying that the body stays in starvation mode even after the weight is dropped and maintenance begins?

If I'm reading it correctly, that sucks! If I'm not, it still sucks.

The only thing that's worked for me? A debilitating GI infection followed by stress from trump as president. I don't recommend it.

I expect it will be followed by quick weight (re) gain as soon as the bastard is out of office.
Isn't the intermittent fasting diet supposed to minimize this effect?
MAGA - Morons Are Governing America

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Slim Cognito
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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#103

Post by Slim Cognito »

MN-Skeptic wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:56 pm
Slim Cognito wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:55 pm
I'd read about the body going into starvation mode during a diet, which drops the metabolic rate making the process that much harder. Is this saying that the body stays in starvation mode even after the weight is dropped and maintenance begins?

If I'm reading it correctly, that sucks! If I'm not, it still sucks.

The only thing that's worked for me? A debilitating GI infection followed by stress from trump as president. I don't recommend it.

I expect it will be followed by quick weight (re) gain as soon as the bastard is out of office.
Isn't the intermittent fasting diet supposed to minimize this effect?
That's what I've heard but it takes a stronger person than me to stick to it. I lasted one week.
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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#104

Post by Foggy »

I'm hoping a rigorous exercise routine will keep my metabolic rate up so I keep burning them calories.

Time will tell.

:?
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.

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p0rtia
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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#105

Post by p0rtia »

Danraft wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:28 am
Just did a quick skim of the last page or so because I'd hinted to P0rtia that I'd share some of the research findings that have potentially large implications in weight management and she told me about this thread.

I do an inordinate amount of scientific journal research, and the word of the week (related to this topic) would be "Allostasis", which is a refinement of the concept of homeostasis.

In homeostasis, certain cellular environmental variables (ie: body temperature, blood pH, oxygen and CO2 levels, etc) are considered to kept in narrow parameters by regulatory methods activated when the variable starts to go " out-of-bounds". For instance, high body temperature activates the secretion of sweat to lose heat through evaporative cooling.
The concept of allostasis arose in 1988 and includes that an organism's various overlapping regulatory systems is actually often acting in a predictive manner (think Pavlonian production of saliva before food is present) and also accounts for manners of dysregulation.

Related to weight management would be adipostasis which, as the name implies is the system for fat storage management.
1. The amount of fat the body has in reserve is monitored by cellular and nerve signals from each fat storage area.
2. The total amount of "target fat storage" varies by environmental needs (nutrient availability, etc), stress events (by several mechanisms), life stage (age, pregnancy, etc), and other cues.

And, this fascinates me.... When the nerves responsible for carrying the signal of how much fat (and of what type) is stored in that region are snipped or chemically blocked, two things happen.
A. The amount of fat stored in that disconnected region increases dramatically (local effect).
B. The total amount of fat stored in other fat storage locations increases to replace the amount of now "missing" fat storage (global effect).

Holy crap. The implications are important. Set aside the perhaps most important part of "how can we change the target fat storage amount?" And, take a mental walk with me.

This means the efficiency of feedback is potentially quite important. And, this efficiency seems to be variable based on adaptation responses and dysfunction. It also explains, in combination with the global target of adipose storage why weight loss can be a struggle with yo-yo dieat effects.

Exercise not only burns calories, but increases blood flow to areas -- and that also supports neural function. And, nerves can be pinched or lose efficiency that could be restored with range of motion activities like yoga, Pilate's, massage and other techniques.

At least, that's my take on it...thoughts?
Busy month -- just now finding the time to give this post the attention it deserves.

On the "everything is coincidence" front, my own reading on weight-management issues recently turned up the concept of allostatis. Which was an exciting moment for me personally. I love it when something I've been trying to find words to describe for YEARS in the face of universal scorn becomes 1) one word and 2) cutting edge.

I consider myself a statistic. One of millions who put on a lot of weight for one reason or another, only to find out that going back is incredibly difficult. Part of that being because the system that regulated my weight homeostasis was, I believe broken/working against me (cf. "hunger/satiety response"). Which is what I think you mean by "manners of dysregulation"? So.

Adopostatis. Another word I am glad to hear for the first time, thank you. It puts a label on all the things I've learned about the hormonal theory of weight gain/loss, leptin, insulin resistance, leptin resistance.

Wow! The concept of local and global responses to interrupted signalling is incredible. I instantly see a far distant future in which folks will get a treatment for "fewer adipocytes on my chin, please!" I won't live to see it, but yeah--way cool.

Anything is way cool that deals with the actual way the body works (as opposed to pop-psych).

Not sure I get the connection to exercise, though. What are you suggesting?

Love this type of discussion! :bighug:
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p0rtia
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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#106

Post by p0rtia »

Foggy wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:40 am
I'm hoping a rigorous exercise routine will keep my metabolic rate up so I keep burning them calories.

Time will tell.

:?
I do regular exercise (at least in winter when in Fla) for the same reason. I'm not at all sure it has creates a calorie deficit, but I know it makes me feel great and makes whatever weight-loss strategy I'm doing more effective.

Lots of cool science you're probably familiar with about how the body gets more efficient at burning calories the more you exercise. And about how calorie restriction by itself can cause your metabolism to slow, so that it will burn fewer calories.

Just got back from a bike ride, so I'm feeling smug.

Excelsior!
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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#107

Post by Foggy »

I don't ride my bike unless it's at least 70°. Nutcases around here riding when it's 40°!


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p0rtia
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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#108

Post by p0rtia »

Foggy wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:47 am
I don't ride my bike unless it's at least 70°. Nutcases around here riding when it's 40°!


(Join the War on Spandex!)
72 F at 8 AM in Fla. :towel:
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Danraft
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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#109

Post by Danraft »

I ride regardless. I have never cycled in negative degrees (F), but I regularly cycle in the teens.

And, keeping pumping means the hood comes down, the knit cap comes off etc as the heat needs to escape.

Cycling on ice requires some new skills, but the gyroscopic action of spinning wheels is pretty stabilizing.


I should maybe start a thread of my Dan-ism's and scientific journal article implications.

Now that I am actually writing grants I understand even more how little time most have to consume the amount and broad coverage of articles I have -- which helps explain why so much is missed.

That, and, most use an article service that sorts and filters based on "impact factor"-- sounds reasonable, except that this last set of Novel prize winning articles almost all had poor "impact factor.

And, last, but hardly least, is the "keywords" or tags that is placed on an article for search engines are minimally useful.
I have started logging and tagging my own way and would love to create a more useful means of assigning article relevance based on how the article is actually used (cited by other articles) and what keywords are in the citing articles to give a more accurate relevance score.

Then, extraction of evidentiary statements, tagged with AI generated relevant tags which are vector weighted by other means... It's time to automate scientific discovery
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Danraft
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Re: The Weight-Management Thread

#110

Post by Danraft »

Ok, I've had a few discussions wherein I struggled to explain why insulin was so predominantly important in the brain for neurological reasons and why it had so many diverse effects.

Losing weight and getting control of body weight is difficult, IMO, because it is swimming against the current. That is to say that the system is built for the brain to work at the request of the body's needs-- not the other way around.

A brain is a powerful tool that wasn't built to do sophisticated lawyering and any number of activities. Its original purpose was to assure survival by successful completion of feeding behavior. Its resources of memory, cognition, executive function are recruited for that purpose.

The inputs of olfactory and gustatory (smell and taste) are altered to encourage successful feeding behavior.

Risk-taking and impulsivity and rest and action all act at the behest of feeding behavior.

I think this one paper, as odd as it may seem to look to insects to understand the pervasive presence of insulin's control over cognition and seemingly unrelated areas, is a super introductory read.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00353/full
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