The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

PaulG
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Re: The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

#26

Post by PaulG » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:52 pm

If you only have a short time to cover WWI, there is Ravel's La Valse.



I think Ravel would be better thought of if not for that stupid movie.

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Mikedunford
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Re: The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

#27

Post by Mikedunford » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:44 pm

Watching "They Shall Not Grow Old." Peter Jackson is a genius, and this movie should be a required part of the curriculum absolutely everywhere.
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Re: The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

#28

Post by arock » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:47 pm


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Mikedunford
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Re: The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

#29

Post by Mikedunford » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:00 pm

There's a part near the start of They Shall Not Grow Old where veterans are reminiscing about enlisting very underage. And there was a bit on Friday when I was at the Shrouds of the Somme - there were a couple of women reading the names, ranks, units, and - where available - ages of the lost. And I started wondering...

How many of the lost who were listed as 18, 19 were really 16, 17?
"I don't give a fuck whether we're peers or not."
--Lord Thomas Henry Bingham to Boris Johnson, on being asked whether he would miss being in "the best club in London" if the Law Lords moved from Parliament to a Supreme Court.

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Piskey
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Re: The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

#30

Post by Piskey » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:01 pm

Have you seen anything about this project Mike Dunford?

https://www.pagesofthesea.org.uk/

Here's a link to a Facebook post about a local contribution to the events.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story ... 901988585

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Tiredretiredlawyer
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Re: The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

#31

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:42 pm

TollandRCR wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:23 pm
NMgirl wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:16 am
If you stop and read the names on some WWI memorials in smaller towns and villages in England, you will see the same surname listed several times. So many families lost multiple, in some cases, all, their sons to this war. Every war is appalling; but WWI was especially brutal, annihilating a large proportion of a single generation of men. It was a needless, useless war, essentially fought for ... nothing.
Could you say more about how needless and useless WWI was? That has long been my view, and there is scholarship to support that view. Moreover, WWI was the major cause of WWII.
A biography of Princess Louise, Kaiser Wilhelm 's cousin, reveals how Wilhelm was itching for a fight with his cousins (in France and England) because he never felt accepted. He was a jerk from a young age and not well liked because of that. Of course, HE was the victim.
“A black woman can invent something for the benefit of humankind.” -Bessie Blount-Griffin, physical therapist, inventor of devices for disabled WWII veterans, and forensic scientist.

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TollandRCR
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Re: The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

#32

Post by TollandRCR » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:44 am

I know that it takes time to notify troops that an armistice has been signed. Do we know how many people were killed between the signing of the armistice and the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month? I understand that a “stop shooting” order would have been unfair until both sides had the message. Wikipedia says 2,768 died; it is unclear if this is allies only.
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

PaulG
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Re: The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

#33

Post by PaulG » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:59 am

My understanding is that they tried to kill each other right up to 11 am, then stopped. I found this on history net.
The encounter was amicable and respectful since members were dealing with the officer who had led America to victory in the Great War. However, a Republican committee member, Alvan T. Fuller of Massachusetts, deferentially posed a provocative query: ‘This question is somewhat irrelevant to the matter under discussion,’ Fuller began, ‘but I would like to ask General Pershing if American troops were ordered over the top on the other side on the morning of the day when under the terms of the Armistice firing was to cease…and that those troops who were not killed or wounded marched peacefully into Germany at 11 o’clock. Is that true?’

Pershing answered with his customary crisp confidence:

When the subject of the armistice was under discussion we did not know what the purpose of it was definitely, whether it was something proposed by the German High Command to gain time or whether they were sincere in their desire to have an armistice; and the mere discussion of an armistice would not be sufficient grounds for any judicious commander to relax his military activities….No one could possibly know when the armistice was to be signed, or what hour be fixed for the cessation of hostilities so that the only thing for us to do, and which I did as commander in chief of the American forces, and which Marshal Foch did as commander in chief of the Allied armies was to continue the military activities….

Just days later, however, the congressman forwarded to Pershing a letter from a constituent with a cover note saying, ‘I have been deluged with questions on this subject.’ The enclosed letter had been written to Fuller by George K. Livermore, former operations officer of the 167th Field Artillery Brigade of the black 92nd Division, stating that that force had been engaged since 5 a.m. on November 11 and had been ordered to launch its final charge at 10:30 a.m. Livermore lamented ‘the little crosses over the graves of the colored lads who died a useless death on that November morning.’ He further described the loss of U.S. Marines killed crossing the Meuse River in the final hours as ‘frightful.’ Congressman Fuller closed his letter to Pershing asking for ‘a real frank, full answer to the question as to whether American lives were needlessly wasted.’
http://www.historynet.com/world-war-i-w ... ce-day.htm

Every time I think I have a handle on the scale of the horror of WWI, I find I'm wrong. It was worse.

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Sam the Centipede
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Re: The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

#34

Post by Sam the Centipede » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:09 pm

No source, but I remember reading some/many years back about groups of soldiers shooting as much as they could shortly before the 11 a.m. deadline, firing volleys of artillery shells, small arms, whatever they had.

I can see a possible line of thinking: our enemies have been trying to kill us for months or years, let's see if we can get a few more of them while we still have the opportunity.

Of course, many will have been thinking "thank heavens it's over, let's stop shooting as soon as possible". It depends on one's frame of mind and from this distance we can't really imagine the situation in the trenches.

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RTH10260
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Re: The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

#35

Post by RTH10260 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:04 am

a clip of the remembrance event in the UK, like MikeDunford may have experienced it


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Whatever4
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Re: The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

#36

Post by Whatever4 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:57 am

RTH10260 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:04 am
a clip of the remembrance event in the UK, like MikeDunford may have experienced it

The Brits do ceremony and recognition better than anyone. This was awesome, thanks for posting. The narrator was perfect. Identified everyone, didn’t break away for inane chatter. :thumbs:
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Mikedunford
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Re: The Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month

#37

Post by Mikedunford » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:08 pm

Unfortunately, I couldn't get anywhere near close enough to see the ceremony itself. (So thanks for the clip; it's the first I saw of it.) I wound up on the parade route on the other side of the block - so I saw all the veterans' groups march past, which was pretty fantastic in its own right.
"I don't give a fuck whether we're peers or not."
--Lord Thomas Henry Bingham to Boris Johnson, on being asked whether he would miss being in "the best club in London" if the Law Lords moved from Parliament to a Supreme Court.

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