Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

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Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#1

Post by Volkonski » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:17 am

No, this isn't about creating a state called Jefferson in the north.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol- ... story.html
California’s 168-year run as a single entity, hugging the continent’s edge for hundreds of miles and sprawling east across mountains and desert, could come to an end next year — as a controversial plan to split the Golden State into three new jurisdictions qualified Tuesday for the Nov. 6 ballot.

If a majority of voters who cast ballots agree, a long and contentious process would begin for three separate states to take the place of California, with one primarily centered around Los Angeles and the other two divvying up the counties to the north and south. Completion of the radical plan — far from certain, given its many hurdles at judicial, state and federal levels — would make history.
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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#2

Post by bob » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:21 am

Power to the signature gatherers, but it'll require congressional approval, which won't be coming anytime soon.


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#3

Post by Notorial Dissent » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:39 am

The is interesting but not what I would consider even remotely practical. Short of New Los Angeles taking on the majority of the debt. I can't see it doing anything but destruction to the economies of the other two states. The biggest hurdle I would think would be getting Congress to go along with it.


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#4

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:09 pm

What, you don’t think the GOP will go for CA having six Senators?


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#5

Post by kate520 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:12 pm

By the time the votes are counted on this, it will be a whole different ball game. :pray: GOPrs won’t have much say in it. Dems might very well want 6 senators, but no way will they break up the world’s 5th largest economy.


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#6

Post by DejaMoo » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:20 pm

Were I to think about this proposal like a Republican politician, I'd analyze it in terms of potential power gain to the GOP and potential harm to the Democrats, and that's all I'd care about. If a blue state splits into three, and if the GOP had a decent chance of gaining political control of two of those states, it'd certainly be worth it. Even if they only gained control of one (or none), the blow it would deal to to California's economy would still count as a win.

The GOP are experts at wreaking fiscal ruin and succesfully blaming it on Democrats, so I don't see how could they lose by this.

Just call me cynical.



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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#7

Post by kate520 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:32 pm

Hi, cynical. :wave:

One of the three, the farthest north part, includes the so-called State of Jefferson, which has been trying to secede from CA for decades and drag southern Oregon along with them. That’s the part of the I-5 that you don’t want to break down on, goes right through their territory. Keep Out signs galore.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffers ... fic_state)


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#8

Post by fierceredpanda » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:54 pm

There have been right-wing libertarian extremists in Silicon Valley for years who have wanted to split up California so they can have their own Randian utopia without having to pay for social services for the unwashed poor people in the rest of the state. I hate this idea, because I'm sure it could be subverted by the Peter Thiels of the world to work to the advantage of the political right.


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#9

Post by bob » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:55 pm

Compare

with how California voted in the 2016 presidential election:


So instead of two Democratic senators, the Californias will have six. And the Californias will collectively have around four additional electoral-college votes. (And imagine the decisions from the new 12th Circus Circuit.)

I'm sure the president will be thrilled to sign that joint resolution.


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#10

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:33 pm

Hey, it’s not Southern Carolina or Northern Dakota, right? So shouldn’t that be North and South California?


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#11

Post by Notorial Dissent » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:39 pm

It's California.


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#12

Post by MN-Skeptic » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:49 pm

Just curious - if California did pass this, what would Congress need to do in order to make it happen? I'm not talking about probabilities, I'm just wondering about the legal steps required.


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#13

Post by bob » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:02 pm

MN-Skeptic wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:49 pm
Just curious - if California did pass this, what would Congress need to do in order to make it happen? I'm not talking about probabilities, I'm just wondering about the legal steps required.
Joint resolution passed by both chambers, and then signed by the president.

AKA it won't happen.


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#14

Post by TheNewSaint » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:43 pm

The field of the [proposed Jefferson state] flag is green, and the charge is the Seal of the State of Jefferson: a gold mining pan with the words "The Great Seal Of State Of Jefferson" engraved into the lip, and two Xs askew of each other.

The two Xs are known as the "Double Cross" and signify the two regions' "sense of abandonment" from the central state governments, in both Southern Oregon and Northern California.
:yankyank: Oh, waaah.



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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#15

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:24 pm

:violin:



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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#16

Post by bob » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:44 pm

bob wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:02 pm
AKA it won't happen.
The Sac Bee concurs ("agrees with me," in Taitz-speak), but charitably calls proposed Southern California "competitive."


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#17

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:16 am

TheNewSaint wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:43 pm
The field of the [proposed Jefferson state] flag is green, and the charge is the Seal of the State of Jefferson: a gold mining pan with the words "The Great Seal Of State Of Jefferson" engraved into the lip, and two Xs askew of each other.

The two Xs are known as the "Double Cross" and signify the two regions' "sense of abandonment" from the central state governments, in both Southern Oregon and Northern California.
:yankyank: Oh, waaah.
:brickwallsmall: Why would a proud fledgling state still need the Xs as a reminder of their prior oppression and abandonment???

I could imaging that a flag with the Xs would be flying in the region as protest up to the time of secession, but then proudly dropped :doh:



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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#18

Post by TheNewSaint » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:59 am

RTH10260 wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:16 am
:brickwallsmall: Why would a proud fledgling state still need the Xs as a reminder of their prior oppression and abandonment???
Because white Christian America loves whining about how oppressed it is by the big mean government.



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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#19

Post by bob » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:44 pm

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!: Planning and Conservation League v. Padilla (RPI: Timothy Draper) (SCOCA dkt no. S249859).

Executive summary: environment group seeks a writ of mandate to keep the proposition off the ballot.


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#20

Post by kate520 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:29 am

Supporters of dividing California argue the nation's most populous state has become ungovernable because of its size, wealth disparities and geographic diversity.
Sounds like the whole of America, to me.


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#21

Post by Notorial Dissent » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:37 am

bob wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:44 pm
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!: Planning and Conservation League v. Padilla (RPI: Timothy Draper) (SCOCA dkt no. S249859).

Executive summary: environment group seeks a writ of mandate to keep the proposition off the ballot.
Isn't this kind of in the realm of the #Revote crowd???


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#22

Post by TollandRCR » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:32 am

The splitting of the northern part of California and its combination with Oregon and Washington is the idea of one of my favorite ecological novels, Ecotopia by Professor Ernest Callenbach
and its prequel Ecotopia Emerging. There is nothing in Callenbach’s story that is technically impossible. Thst was true in the 1970s when me wrote. People may be disturbed that the threat of enormous violence was necessary to create this new entity.


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#23

Post by bob » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:44 pm

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:37 am
Isn't this kind of in the realm of the #Revote crowd???
Nope, 'cuz the petitioner won the first battle: S.F. Chron.: Splitting up Calif.: State Supreme Court takes initiative off the November ballot:
The state Supreme Court removed the “three-Californias” initiative from the November ballot Wednesday but said it would decide later whether the plan to break up the state was within the voters’ power to consider at a future election.

In a unanimous order, the six justices said that “significant questions regarding the proposition’s validity” and that the “potential harm” of allowing a public vote before those question are resolved “outweighs the potential harm in delaying the proposition to a future election.”

The court said it would consider both sides’ arguments at a hearing before deciding whether to place the measure on the 2020 ballot.
SCOCA's docket (with the full text of the order).


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Re: Radical plan to split California into three states earns spot on November ballot

#24

Post by Notorial Dissent » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:30 am

Interesting. I'm not familiar with CA's initiative law, but I do have some questions about their reasoning.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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