Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

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MN-Skeptic
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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#301

Post by MN-Skeptic »

Ghost of LaVoy F*cum wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:05 am
Ghost of LaVoy F*cum wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:41 am
RoadScholar wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:51 pm
Pro-tip:
Most men are not interested in women who tell everyone "I have been around the block a few million times".
While my take on it is that RoadScholar is an experienced observer of human nature. Based on the rest of the screed, I stand by my interpretation.
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Ghost of LaVoy F*cum
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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#302

Post by Ghost of LaVoy F*cum »

Mr. Ghost. You are skirting the spirit of our rules about insulting fellow members for their opinions.
(In fairness I didn't know that you had a rule that members could "insult" everything except other member's opinions. Who knew?)
RS is a passionate defender of them what needs defending.
(I do not know what this statement means)
If you have a problem with that, please take it to PM.
(Please don't encourage your members to do this, the last time you did it caused a member called boots to private message a string of insults, name calling & profanity for the last week, it's been funny for me but its been hard on him)

Too, also, I couldn’t disagree more with your sentiment.
(I'm not sure what you're referring to, can you be more specific?)

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#303

Post by MN-Skeptic »

Ghost of LaVoy F*cum wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:13 am
:think: That’s not what I got out of it at all.
Feel free to share what you got out of it. Does she sound like a happy gal who is in a stable long term relationship?
[/quote]

To begin with, I’m pretty sure “she” is a HE in a long term marriage.
MAGA - Morons Are Governing America

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#304

Post by Ghost of LaVoy F*cum »

MN-Skeptic wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:54 am
Ghost of LaVoy F*cum wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:13 am
:think: That’s not what I got out of it at all.
Feel free to share what you got out of it. Does she sound like a happy gal who is in a stable long term relationship?
To begin with, I’m pretty sure “she” is a HE in a long term marriage.
[/quote]

Interesting...are you "sure" or just guessing?

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Danraft
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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#305

Post by Danraft »

Ghost of LaVoy F*cum wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:05 am
Ghost of LaVoy F*cum wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:41 am
RoadScholar wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:51 pm
Pro-tip:
Most men are not interested in women who tell everyone "I have been around the block a few million times".
Who says? And, is the converse not also true.

And, as a counter-factual (slightly misusing the term), in college I knew men that A) if a woman had carpet burns on her knees or the small of her back B) Would ask her out because they figured she was fun.

And, I, for one, never found the idea of a woman being a virgin as attractive. And, the men that were seeking virgins were, in my estimation, afraid of being compared (sexually) to another man.
Outside the risk for STDs, a woman being sexually active was much better than being a virgin.

Good sex is an acquired skill and lack of experience may not be a negative, but I don't necessarily consider it a plus, either.

It's not a disgusting act and (within some limits) it is a healthy activity that many healthy people enjoy.
It doesn't deserve stigma. And, a person's choices in this area are their own business.
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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#306

Post by Sam the Centipede »

ABBC3_OFFTOPIC
Slim Cognito wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:55 pm
Its cliche but personality is everything. It. Really. Is.
Time for an old joke to lighten the grumpy mood:

Two guys were chatting about dating women. One of them said "I'm attractive, better dressed than you, nicer car, more money to spend on nights out, I have more interesting conversation, but you seem to have all the luck with women, they keep coming back to you, why is that?"

The other didn't answer, but sat there, licking his eyebrows.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#307

Post by Foggy »

 ! Message from: Foggy
For the record, "take your childish bickering to private messages" does NOT mean "exchange a few more insults in private messages and then come back and tell us all about it, quoting your private messages in public with more childish bickering". :fingerwag:

Sheesh. :doh:

And Ghost insulted P'girl this time, because "I didn't know the rules." He's banned for a week to give him time to learn the rules, and I deleted a bunch of posts, and boots, I am going to ask you to just fucking ignore his posts.

When I get up in the morning, this is not what I expect to find, and it's making the forum less pleasant for everyone. On the bright side, I have the power to make it stop, and I am going to make it stop.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.

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Notorial Dissent
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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#308

Post by Notorial Dissent »

Thank you, I wasn't sure what I was reading. Now I am. In my defense, I slept through all this and am just now getting caught up.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#309

Post by voxpopuluxe »

Danraft wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:57 am
I am suggesting that there is a large segment of society that hasn't had sex in a while or are essentially celibate without having "decided" to be celibate.

Now, here's a question... Is it possible that not_having_sex is a causative neurological component of mental health dysfunction? And, that it is part of, or, nitiates a Cascade of negative emotion that further entrenches the condition?
the straightness of this whole conversation sort of jumps out at me and i'd observe, in passing, that "having sex" can include a pretty wide variety of practices including cuddling, sex toys, self-satisfaction, etc. i mean, i haven't had an intimate partner in a long time & i'm more or less okay with that—the reasons why & why not being something i work on with my therapist—but i have friends who are available for good conservations, cuddles, hugs & kisses, i'm happy to spend a morning or an evening on my own doing solo work, and a really good yoga session can make me feel at home in my body in ways that feel at least as good as sex. are any of these practices "having sex"—? well some of them are and can be as gratifying and even if they don't include someone else lying on top of me and spitting in my mouth they aren't less than or second best.

so i don't know but i think that one of avenues to satisfying the desire to "have sex" is to expand the definition beyond two or three different physical acts and to resist the idea that there's only celibacy and "having sex."

(and given the way this thread went, i'll state for the record that i have nothing but compassion for people who fail to have the kinds of consensual human contact they want, whether they call themselves incels or not. it's the incels who are a vector for the fascist virus that i'm opposed to.)

anyway, i woke up this morning and read ‘I Don’t Know How to Feel My Desire’ and it is at once very much me and at least adjacent to the topic here

https://www.thecut.com/2020/01/ask-poll ... esire.html
“If you can float enough disinformation into circulation you will totally abolish everyone’s contact with reality, probably your own included.” — Philip K Dick

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Danraft
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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#310

Post by Danraft »

Agreed. It's a more complex topic than this thread even touches upon.
Speaking of which, "human contact"-- cuddles, strokes, massages, hugs, copulation, arm wrestling (?), Etc all may reduce stress or bring a more oceanic feeling of inclusion and humanity. To what degree?

Are there an physiological and neurological changes that occur with the experience of what one might loosely define as celibacy?

I'd put "Vegas odds" at 5 to 3 for there being observable changes (dysfunction).

The brain is, as is being documented now, much more sexually dimorphic than has been previously believed. Probably integral is brain aromatase and the discovery that sex hormones like estradiol are actually used and manufactured in the brain and affect areas like the arcuate nucleus that is ancient and distinctly connected to neurological and metabolic changes.

Perhaps the easiest observed phenomena to point out is the dimorphic expression of Altzheimer's-- 2/3's of new cases are post menopausal women. Many theories have been put forth including a neuroprotective role of estrogen. Time will tell.

The sets of NIH grants I am assembling (and am in discussion with in Austria, Spain, USA, and Scotland so far) are about finding biomarkers fingerprints of metabolic lipid based components of traditional and non-traditional media.

Hopefully many chronic diseases and addiction etc can be better treated with better phenotype discernment.

I think what we see with some dangerous "incels" would fall into what the NIMH would call delusional thinking and psychotic breaks from reality.

While those lines are not crisp, human intimacy is perhaps somehow protective or ameliorative? Or, maybe I am totally off base. Dunno.
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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#311

Post by Patagoniagirl »

Thank you for your post Vox, and for the link. I need to read it over and over.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#312

Post by Flatpointhigh »

Danraft wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:57 am
"Incels" as an organized forum group may be "whiny" etc.
But, the number of men who have not had sex in "decades", or at least ten years would probably be a higher percentage than many think--especially if one includes those in non-sexual marriages.

And, is that percentage significantly higher than the number of women that fit that criteria?

I am suggesting that there is a large segment of society that hasn't had sex in a while or are essentially celibate without having "decided" to be celibate.

Now, here's a question... Is it possible that not_having_sex is a causative neurological component of mental health dysfunction? And, that it is part of, or, nitiates a Cascade of negative emotion that further entrenches the condition?

Even without that being the case (that there is a neurological component), not being in a relationship, or seeking one, may lead to characteristics that would entrench the condition: improper responses to social cues, poor hygiene, halitosis, poor health, style and fashion faux pas, eating with their mouth open, etc...

In my opinion, there are many who are effectively isolated in society and it is a sad situation that is growing and needs attention.

"Incels", " crazy cat ladies" and the like are potentially only an issue if other qualifying conditions are fulfilled, but sex is also a powerful social activity-- and one that may not only imply a person is desirable (and all that that does for self-worth), but actually, by its engagement increase mental health and desirability.

Side note: If making fun of those who are functionally celibate causes dopamine release (is funny to you), I'd hazard a guess that that person would be in the high risk group for low self-esteem and poor mental health if they ever encounter this situation in their own life.

Whether one has had sex recently or not is a poor external barometer for a person's character.
True, however, we are speaking of the violent rejected minority who co-opted the term.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#313

Post by Notorial Dissent »

Part of what you(Dan) are saying is true, BUT. These people ARE NOT Incels because they have not had sex in however long, they have not had sex, or human contact, because they are thoroughly unpleasant(in any number of spectacularly awful ways) socially maladapted people who have alienated themselves that NO ONE, particularly no one female, wants to be around for any longer than absolutely necessary, and thus are Incels. Celibacy by choice is one thing, celibacy because no one wants to get that close to you is something entirely different.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#314

Post by Addie »

:like:
Notorial Dissent wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:19 pm
Part of what you(Dan) are saying is true, BUT. These people ARE NOT Incels because they have not had sex in however long, they have not had sex, or human contact, because they are thoroughly unpleasant(in any number of spectacularly awful ways) socially maladapted people who have alienated themselves that NO ONE, particularly no one female, wants to be around for any longer than absolutely necessary, and thus are Incels. Celibacy by choice is one thing, celibacy because no one wants to get that close to you is something entirely different.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#315

Post by Flatpointhigh »

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:19 pm
Part of what you(Dan) are saying is true, BUT. These people ARE NOT Incels because they have not had sex in however long, they have not had sex, or human contact, because they are thoroughly unpleasant(in any number of spectacularly awful ways) socially maladapted people who have alienated themselves that NO ONE, particularly no one female, wants to be around for any longer than absolutely necessary, and thus are Incels. Celibacy by choice is one thing, celibacy because no one wants to get that close to you is something entirely different.
Again, these unpleasant people co-opted the term.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#316

Post by Jeffrey »

Unpleasantness doesn’t fit the data.
People now in their early 20s are two and a half times as likely to be abstinent as Gen Xers were at that age; 15 percent report having had no sex since they reached adulthood.
People can’t possibly have become 2.5 times more unpleasant.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#317

Post by neonzx »

Jeffrey wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:07 pm
Unpleasantness doesn’t fit the data.
People now in their early 20s are two and a half times as likely to be abstinent as Gen Xers were at that age; 15 percent report having had no sex since they reached adulthood.
People can’t possibly have become 2.5 times more unpleasant.
Internet == Lack of interpersonal skills development during adolescence?
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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#318

Post by Azastan »

neonzx wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:18 pm


Internet == Lack of interpersonal skills development during adolescence?
Too busy trying to work several jobs in order to exist?

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#319

Post by neeneko »

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:19 pm
Part of what you(Dan) are saying is true, BUT. These people ARE NOT Incels because they have not had sex in however long, they have not had sex, or human contact, because they are thoroughly unpleasant(in any number of spectacularly awful ways) socially maladapted people who have alienated themselves that NO ONE, particularly no one female, wants to be around for any longer than absolutely necessary, and thus are Incels. Celibacy by choice is one thing, celibacy because no one wants to get that close to you is something entirely different.
It is really both. Like many other types of radicalization it is a vicious cycle. People enter it with a problem and wanting to understand it and find support, but that support is destructive. People only start paying attention at the late stages, because that is high profile, entertaining, and to be blunt, makes people outside the community feel better about themselves. The earlier stages are lot less visible, but a lot of that 'unpleasentness' comes from being treated in unpleasant ways.

When you talk to them, away from other incels where they have to keep up certain facades, the root is often less 'I feel I am superior and thus deserve a super model' and more "I was heavily bullied, people built their social standing off treating me in awful ways, why can't I do the same?'.. and of course the support network does exactly that, provides positive feedback for lashing out.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#320

Post by Patagoniagirl »

I suspect there are many, many people who have not had sex, either ever, or for a long time (no fair to lump Crazy Cat Ladies in with incels, Danraft 😊). I am also sure that there are many who are socially awkward, and unappealing to others, either in appearance or behavior for whatever reason.

My puzzlement is why some become radicalized? Is there some common denominator? There is something I cannot pinpoint.

In generations past there must have been men who had little opportunity to form meaningful physical and emotional relationships.

Is it social media which both promotes sex, and creates an opportunity to connect with other disaffected individuals? Where did this sense of entitlement to females as a sexual outlet come from? Do they really mean meaningful relationships, or do they mean sex? Do they believe women are purposeful for sex alone as their basis of disenfranchisement or are they disconnected from society because of other behaviors? Is this prevalent in a specific age group? Are there female incels? And no, Danraft, crazy cat ladies are purrfectly content to live with cats😹.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#321

Post by Jeffrey »

Not strictly the same thing but I think there’s overlap. I lost my partner at a relatively young age and I’m definitely less fun to be around now. You have no one to keep you in check, get home at the end of the day and you got no one to complain to. Stewing in your own juices simply isn’t good.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#322

Post by Notorial Dissent »

Dan obviously hasn't met or known some of the crazy cat ladies I have...….

It still comes down to the very important difference between NOT for personal/religious/reason reasons and NOT because no one wants to get that close to them and them being offended/upset/angry/violent because the object(s) of their delusion doesn't automatically fall over at their feet and worship them and submit. The individuals being so identified are being so identified for the reasons described, not for the almost certain end result.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#323

Post by Patagoniagirl »

Jeffrey wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:32 pm
Not strictly the same thing but I think there’s overlap. I lost my partner at a relatively young age and I’m definitely less fun to be around now. You have no one to keep you in check, get home at the end of the day and you got no one to complain to. Stewing in your own juices simply isn’t good.
Similar for me, but... I lost my partner long before he left this earth. Thing was, other facets of our life filled in and made my life full and wonderful. In fact, life became richer and deeper. Intimacy became itself. It was not defined by sex. It was a release in itself to be free of the social confines of Viagra Ads and Cialis commercials. Richer beyond our early life together though that certainly is somewhat important, I think there is a next stage.

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#324

Post by Patagoniagirl »

Are people who do not have sex and don't care ashamed to admit it?

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Re: Incel Rebellion: Violent Misogyny - We've seen it all before

#325

Post by p0rtia »

Patagoniagirl wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:07 pm
Are people who do not have sex and don't care ashamed to admit it?
Sure. The asexual community is alive and well, for one. And plenty of people who choose celibacy: many religious communities that deem virginity before marriage to be important (teens taking the pldge, and all that). Catholics priests and nuns.

I have a number of friends who are single after a long period of marriage/partnership who talk about now preferring celibacy.
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