School Violence

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neeneko
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Re: School Violence

#26

Post by neeneko » Fri May 18, 2018 12:34 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 11:15 am
Sadly the NRA has also infiltrated the Democratic Party. These deaths are the responsibility of gutless politicians whose only desire is to be re-elected.
Politicians who do not care if they get reelected tend to be replaced by ones who do.



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Re: School Violence

#27

Post by Volkonski » Fri May 18, 2018 12:39 pm

DeVos comments on shooting.


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NEW: Education Sec. Betsy DeVos: "No student should have to experience the trauma suffered by so many today and in similar events prior. We simply cannot allow this trend to continue." https://abcn.ws/2wTbnmZ
Bet the underlying issue of too many guns will not be addressed by her Commission. :madguy:


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Re: School Violence

#28

Post by TexasFilly » Fri May 18, 2018 12:54 pm

Santa Fe is a somewhat rural area. I suspect most homes there house multiple weapons.


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Re: School Violence

#29

Post by Volkonski » Fri May 18, 2018 1:14 pm

TexasFilly wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 12:32 pm
Weird that the Santa Fe ISD police department is the lead in this case. Supposedly explosive devices found around the high school. The SFISD spokesman can barely speak English. Thoughts and prayers from the Chief. :roll:
English isn't all its cracked up to be. ;)

Using the ISD Police might be a jurisdictional issue. The ISD not only serves Santa Fe but also parts of League City, La Marque, Hitchcock, and Dickinson. The SF HIgh School building is within the city limits but just barely. Parts of the high school grounds are outside the city limits.


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Re: School Violence

#30

Post by kate520 » Fri May 18, 2018 1:19 pm

Betsy DeVos holds a special place in my heart. :brokenheart: I have little hope that tweet means she will attempt a far-short follow through. The emails unearthed recently among the participants in the Trump Tower meeting revealed their #1, go-to tactic for handling a crisis, PR or real: Stick to the script, don’t say anything different, it will blow over


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neeneko
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Re: School Violence

#31

Post by neeneko » Fri May 18, 2018 1:22 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 12:39 pm
Bet the underlying issue of too many guns will not be addressed by her Commission. :madguy:
I am also wondering how they can have any 'proven' methods if there is (was?) a federal restriction on funding such research. How can you have proof of something working or not when you are not allowed to prove it?



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Re: School Violence

#32

Post by neeneko » Fri May 18, 2018 1:24 pm

kate520 wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:19 pm
Betsy DeVos holds a special place in my heart. :brokenheart: I have little hope that tweet means she will attempt a far-short follow through. The emails unearthed recently among the participants in the Trump Tower meeting revealed their #1, go-to tactic for handling a crisis, PR or real: Stick to the script, don’t say anything different, it will blow over
I am not sure we would want the follow up she likely has in mind.

Something people tend to forget is that 'solving' the problem isn't really due to lack of will or ideas, but due to conflicting ideas and interests. Given unlimited power and resources DeVos probably would do something, but the follow through probably would not be what you or I believe would be effective.



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Re: School Violence

#33

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Fri May 18, 2018 1:31 pm

neeneko wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:22 pm
Volkonski wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 12:39 pm
Bet the underlying issue of too many guns will not be addressed by her Commission. :madguy:
I am also wondering how they can have any 'proven' methods if there is (was?) a federal restriction on funding such research. How can you have proof of something working or not when you are not allowed to prove it?
There are proven ways- background checks and assault rifle ban like in the 90's.


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Re: School Violence

#34

Post by Sam the Centipede » Fri May 18, 2018 1:34 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 12:12 pm
I realize that school shootings remain relatively rare. :snippity:

:o Really? :o I guess it depends on your baseline for "rare" but they seem to be depressingly frequent to me. And many times more frequent in the US than in all other comparable countries.

Of course schools shouldn't have super-tight security to combat this menace; that's not the cause of the problem, it's the nutters with guns who love their child-hunting and their supoorters in the amoral pro-murder, pro-child-killing NRA. And of those buffoons who think their gun "rights" are more important than children's rights to a happy, healthy and safe childhood.

But also, I doubt that tight security at schools would achieve anything beyond displacing the problem outside the school - and that's if the tight security even worked, which I doubt. Kids are at schools for many years, I'm sure they could find a way around any security protocols should they wish to.



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Re: School Violence

#35

Post by Volkonski » Fri May 18, 2018 1:35 pm

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/santa- ... index.html
Investigators are searching a trailer nearby where it is believed IEDs were assembled, according to a law enforcement source.

That same source says a pressure cooker has been found.
A law enforcement official says 10 people are dead in the Texas high school shooting; nine of those killed are students and one a teacher.
A 17-year old-male student suspected in today's shooting at Santa Fe High School is in custody, according to a law enforcement official.


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Re: School Violence

#36

Post by Volkonski » Fri May 18, 2018 1:44 pm


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BREAKING: Dimitrios Pagourtzis identified as Texas high school mass shooting suspect, multiple law enforcement sources tell @NBCNews.


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Re: School Violence

#37

Post by Volkonski » Fri May 18, 2018 1:50 pm

ABC News

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NEW: TX Gov. Greg Abbott orders flags at half-staff following deadly high school shooting.

"The First Lady and I extend our prayers of comfort to the survivors and the families of the victims and we will continue to keep them in our thoughts and prayers." https://abcn.ws/2wSF7k7
You would think that by now do nothing politicians would be embarrassed to be caught using the phrase "thoughts and prayers" when responding to a school shooting. :madguy:


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Re: School Violence

#38

Post by Sam the Centipede » Fri May 18, 2018 1:53 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:50 pm
You would think that by now do nothing politicians would be embarrassed to be caught using the phrase "thoughts and prayers" when responding to a school shooting. :madguy:
I mentally transpose the phrase "in our thoughts and prayers" to "Heck, do you expect me to actually care? Really?"

With the subtext: "we will do absolutely nothing constructive about this".



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Re: School Violence

#39

Post by Skip Intro » Fri May 18, 2018 1:59 pm

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In the Trump era anything is true if enough people believe it.

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Re: School Violence

#40

Post by neeneko » Fri May 18, 2018 2:07 pm

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:34 pm
:o Really? :o I guess it depends on your baseline for "rare" but they seem to be depressingly frequent to me. And many times more frequent in the US than in all other comparable countries.
Such shootings are national level front page news every time they happen. That means they are pretty damn rare when compared to other types of gun violence. The more common 'domestic violence results in shooting' barely even make the local news unless they involve someone rich.



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Re: School Violence

#41

Post by neeneko » Fri May 18, 2018 2:10 pm

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:31 pm
There are proven ways- background checks and assault rifle ban like in the 90's.
Unfortunately, neither of those are really 'proven' to have much impact on even common domestic violence, much less have an impact on school shootings. They both sound like they should, and people can point to 'common sense', but common sense is not proof in any good solid scientific way, and the problem over the last few years is that the CDC has not really been able to do any research. So all we have is 'common sense' vs 'common sense'.



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Re: School Violence

#42

Post by Volkonski » Fri May 18, 2018 2:11 pm

Santa Fe shooter played on the JV football team.

https://santafeindians.org/2016/10/07/j ... ball-14-0/
The Indian Defense pressured the Ball High offense throughout the game and had a number of players finish the game with tallies in the sack column for the Indians. Michael Moore, Logan Pettus, Amado Vasquez, Jose Avila, and Chandler Bardwell all had at least one sack. Defensive Tackles Lane James, Gage Slaughter, and Dimitrios Pagourtzis played a huge role in stopping the Tor’s running game.
I have seen comments that he was bullied by a coach or coaches.


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Re: School Violence

#43

Post by Azastan » Fri May 18, 2018 2:24 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:50 pm

You would think that by now do nothing politicians would be embarrassed to be caught using the phrase "thoughts and prayers" when responding to a school shooting. :madguy:
What else have they got?



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Re: School Violence

#44

Post by neeneko » Fri May 18, 2018 2:41 pm

Azastan wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:24 pm
What else have they got?
For that matter, why would they change? It has proven quite effective at framing for their supporters. They people who believe 'thoughts and prayers' is shameful are not their target audience.



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Re: School Violence

#45

Post by Chilidog » Fri May 18, 2018 2:47 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:11 pm
Santa Fe shooter played on the JV football team.

https://santafeindians.org/2016/10/07/j ... ball-14-0/
The Indian Defense pressured the Ball High offense throughout the game and had a number of players finish the game with tallies in the sack column for the Indians. Michael Moore, Logan Pettus, Amado Vasquez, Jose Avila, and Chandler Bardwell all had at least one sack. Defensive Tackles Lane James, Gage Slaughter, and Dimitrios Pagourtzis played a huge role in stopping the Tor’s running game.
I have seen comments that he was bullied by a coach or coaches.
Of course he was. It's high school football in Texas.



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Re: School Violence

#46

Post by RoadScholar » Fri May 18, 2018 2:57 pm

Guns = Cars.

When you walk away, you leave them locked.

To start them you need a key and/or fob device.

You need to show basic knowledge and ability to have and use them.

The bigger and more dangerous, the greater the requirements for ownership & operation.

Children can't own & operate them.

Drunks have their licenses suspended so they can't legally use them.

Mentally unstable people, adjudicated so, can't either.

People who have extensively proven they can't be trusted with them, same thing.

We are so damn careful about cars... why not guns?


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Re: School Violence

#47

Post by Kendra » Fri May 18, 2018 3:07 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:57 pm
Guns = Cars.

When you walk away, you leave them locked.

To start them you need a key and/or fob device.

You need to show basic knowledge and ability to have and use them.

The bigger and more dangerous, the greater the requirements for ownership & operation.

Children can't own & operate them.

Drunks have their licenses suspended so they can't legally use them.

Mentally unstable people, adjudicated so, can't either.

People who have extensively proven they can't be trusted with them, same thing.

We are so damn careful about cars... why not guns?
:thumbs:



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Re: School Violence

#48

Post by HeatherGray » Fri May 18, 2018 3:08 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:57 pm
Guns = Cars.

When you walk away, you leave them locked.

To start them you need a key and/or fob device.

You need to show basic knowledge and ability to have and use them.

The bigger and more dangerous, the greater the requirements for ownership & operation.

Children can't own & operate them.

Drunks have their licenses suspended so they can't legally use them.

Mentally unstable people, adjudicated so, can't either.

People who have extensively proven they can't be trusted with them, same thing.

We are so damn careful about cars... why not guns?
You forgot: Insurance is required to operate them.



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Re: School Violence

#49

Post by HilltownGrrl » Fri May 18, 2018 3:09 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:57 pm
Guns = Cars.

When you walk away, you leave them locked.

To start them you need a key and/or fob device.

You need to show basic knowledge and ability to have and use them.

The bigger and more dangerous, the greater the requirements for ownership & operation.

Children can't own & operate them.

Drunks have their licenses suspended so they can't legally use them.

Mentally unstable people, adjudicated so, can't either.

People who have extensively proven they can't be trusted with them, same thing.

We are so damn careful about cars... why not guns?
:yeah:

I'd add vehicle registration to the list above. I was ninja'd on insurance :-D


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Re: School Violence

#50

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Fri May 18, 2018 4:04 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:57 pm
Guns = Cars.

When you walk away, you leave them locked.

To start them you need a key and/or fob device.
Hopefully. Still, 3/4 of a million cars were stolen in 2016 according to the FBI.
RoadScholar wrote: You need to show basic knowledge and ability to have and use them.

The bigger and more dangerous, the greater the requirements for ownership & operation.

Children can't own & operate them.
That doesn't stop a determined adolescent.
RoadScholar wrote: Drunks have their licenses suspended so they can't legally use them.

Mentally unstable people, adjudicated so, can't either.

People who have extensively proven they can't be trusted with them, same thing.
But the drunks and crazies and repeat traffic offenders continue to drive until they get caught (again).
RoadScholar wrote: We are so damn careful about cars... why not guns?
Primarily because they're not the same thing. Being "careful" is fraught with the human propensity for error and the likelihood of a determined perpetrator taking advantage of situations.

Somehow, over time, this kid found the wherewithal to put together explosive devices and get his hands on a shotgun and ammunition. I'm sure we'll soon hear an explanation of how he managed to get those into the school and eventually we'll hear of his home life.

I've said something like this before - a large part of the problem is in the minds of some number of young males who no longer value human life, in many cases including their own.

We, the adults in this society, have somehow let something precious slip away from them.


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