Autonomous Vehicles

[RTH10260]

2 robotaxis blocked ambulance carrying patient who later died, S.F. firefighters say

Jordan Parker Danielle Echeverria
Sep. 1, 2023 Updated: Sep. 2, 2023 3:24 p.m.

Two stalled driverless taxis blocked an ambulance carrying a critically injured patient in San Francisco on Aug. 14, causing a delay that contributed to “poor patient outcome” — the person died 20 to 30 minutes after reaching the hospital, according to a report by San Francisco firefighters that the taxi company disputes.

The report was obtained by Forbes, which recently published a story detailing accounts by San Francisco firefighters who say driverless taxis have repeatedly interfered with their emergency response.

However, Forbes also reported that Cruise provided a video that disputed SFFD’s account of the Aug. 14 incident. The video, Forbes reported, shows that one Cruise car quickly left the scene while the other remained stalled at the intersection with an open lane to its right, which traffic was passing through. Forbes said it was not clear from the video if the ambulance could have navigated into the open lane.

Hannah Lindow, a Cruise spokesperson, told the Chronicle that the Cruise vehicle that stopped did so to yield to first responders directing traffic.

“Throughout the entire duration the (autonomous vehicle) is stopped, traffic remains unblocked and flowing to the right of the AV. The ambulance behind the AV had a clear path to pass the AV as other vehicles, including another ambulance, proceeded to do,” Lindow said in an email. “As soon as the victim was loaded into the ambulance, the ambulance left the scene immediately and was never impeded from doing so by the AV.”



https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/art ... 343808.php

[DrConspiracy]

Elon Musk recently streamed a live video of him driving the experimental Version 12 of Tesla's Full Self-Driving system on city streets. Version 12 is yet another radical departure from what Tesla was doing before.

Tesla uses a neural network to interpret the car's surroundings, to recognize roadways, other cars, traffic signals, traffic cones, signs and pedestrians. FSD builds on a massive video archive labeled by humans to train the neural network. At version 11, a model of the surroundings is built and then some 350,000 lines of human-written computer code specify what the car does in every situation. I've driven it, and it "mostly works." As good as it is, it's definitely not ready to replace a human driver.

Version 12 replaces the 350,000 lines of computer code with a neural network that is taught by watching video of what good drivers do. It's called "machine learning," Experts in the field have long advocated a gradual migration from hard-written code to machine learning. Musk says they're skipping the "gradual" part. It did screw up once in the live stream. Predictions by Elon Musk are almost always grossly optimistic, and Version 12 in the hands of customers by year end seems extremely unlikely. Nevertheless, the test drive was really impressive. Tesla's advantage is a fleet of millions internet connected cars that can send them video to learn from.

One problem is that good human drivers don't always obey all the traffic laws. The NHTSA once clamped down on Tesla because they didn't stop 100% at stop signs. One report said they are revisiting that decision, given the fact that human drivers don't stop fully much of the time.

[keith]

One problem is that good human drivers don't always obey all the traffic laws. The NHTSA once clamped down on Tesla because they didn't stop 100% at stop signs. One report said they are revisiting that decision, given the fact that human drivers don't stop fully much of the time.

My high school 'Driver's Ed' teacher (he was a great HS Football Coach, State Hall of Fame and all that, but a lousy teacher) marked a test question wrong when everybody in the class got it right. The question was (approximately) 'You should always come to a complete stop at a stop sign'. Everybody in the class answered it correctly as 'true'. Coach's argument was if you are out in the middle of nowhere and you can see all around you for miles and you come to a crossroads where there is a stop sign and you know that nothing is coming anywhere, why bother stopping?

We all knew his REAL reason was that according to him, his exams were so hard that NOBODY ever got them all correct, but in this case, me, my best friend Dave, Jaime, another guy I can't remember DID in fact get them all right. He had to find an excuse to make everybody wrong.

Dave and I both knew that the next year we were inevitably going to be in his 'American Problems' class, so we decided to take AP in summer school which was actually held in a different school halfway across town. So, when we rock up to start class the first day? That's right, the Coach, and he pulled all kinds of lousy tricks, like calling on someone to answer a question, telling them it's wrong, calling on someone else who gives the same answer in different words, telling them it's wrong, calling on a third, who gives the answer in the same words as the first and calling it correct.

So anyway, to pull this ever-so-slightly back on topic, I hope Tesla isn't using Coach to train its cars.

[busterbunker]

Autonomous Vehicles could be an euphemism for most human beings. I'm kinda partial to those that actually have brains.

[Foggy]

... given the fact that human drivers don't stop fully much of the time.

I've always called that the California stop. You stop enough to be safe, but it's a rolling stop. However, I'm pretty sure there's a military definition of how to stop at a stop sign, and it is "the wheels have stopped moving and the weight of the vehicle has settled on the rear axle". That's how to do a real stop at a stop sign.

But I'm a Californian.

[Volkonski]

At my very safety concerned former employer a full stop was required at every onsite stop sign at every company site worldwide.

We were empowered to stop and give tickets to any vehicle that we saw not doing this. Caught a lot of visiting vendors and even a few customers (who rarely visited our sites unless they were driven by our employees.)

After a while this behavior became ingrained and non employees in the area of our sites started to make full stops so as not to rear end our employees.

There were many other safety rules. To this day I won't go up or down a stairway without holding the railing even in my own home. (However these days I would be very stupid not to hold on due to balance problems. )

[Foggy]

Off Topic

To this day I won't go up or down a stairway without holding the railing even in my own home. (However these days I would be very stupid not to hold on due to balance problems. )

I was asked by a nurse about five years ago whether I hold the railing when I go up and down stairs.

But y'know, I'm a rebellious type, first thing, and secondly, it sounded like that's something old people do, but I am not old.

My father is 95 and a half. He's old. As long as he's around, I'm not old. Go ahead and write that down.

So anyway, I quit holding the railing.

Mostly.

[Foggy]

For the record, I am not against autonomous vehicles, and in fact, I believe they are the future. With the right software, autonomous vehicles could carry a much higher amount of traffic in places that see traffic jams every weekday from commuters. And I would love to get in a car, enter my dad's home as a location, and not have to drive the damned car through Richmond and Fredericksburg. I could watch the world outside, or read a book.

I'm a big fan of the tech, but as Doc C tells us above, the tech isn't really there yet. It will get better and better, but today it isn't a viable solution. That's okay because they're constantly working to make it better. A neural network is probably a good thing. We're approaching real AI.

[HoperUp]

I've been keeping an eye on the progress myself. Honestly, I dream of the day I can catch some z's or binge-watch a show while my car drives me to work. We're not there yet, but fingers crossed.

[DrConspiracy]

... given the fact that human drivers don't stop fully much of the time.

I've always called that the California stop. You stop enough to be safe, but it's a rolling stop. However, I'm pretty sure there's a military definition of how to stop at a stop sign, and it is "the wheels have stopped moving and the weight of the vehicle has settled on the rear axle". That's how to do a real stop at a stop sign.

But I'm a Californian.

I've heard it called the Oklahoma Rolling Stop, the Texas Rolling Stop and others. The numbers one finds vary wildly from 30% who don't fully stop to over 90%.

[DrConspiracy]

Tesla has been remarkably consistent in their Full Self-Driving (FSD) program, promising "robotaxis next year" every year since their original "Autonomy Day" presentation in April of 2019. In that time they have scrapped the project and started over multiple times.

First they used an object recognition chip from MobilEye (now a part of Intel) called, IIRC, the IQ3. That goes back to 2014 and I still have a 2016 Tesla that uses that system. That eventually came to be called "Hardware 1" or HW1. Full autonomy in collaboration with MobilEye fell apart and they introduced self-driving computers built on an NVIDIA graphics processing chip (HW2 and HW 2.5). That turned out to have insufficient processing power and was replaced with a chip and computer of their own design (the Full Self-Driving Computer or "HW3"). That project hit what was called a "local maximum" when no matter how many labeled images they fed into the neural network, it wasn't getting better at recognizing the environment. They scrapped that and started feeding the network video instead of still images.

Once the neural network consumed enough human-labeled video, it got pretty good at recognizing stuff, but recognizing the surroundings is not the same as driving. Tesla wrote over 300,000 lines of computer code to tell the car how to drive. So that takes us through the first 11 major versions of Tesla Full Self-Driving (FSD). (I'm drove Version 11 on my 2018 Tesla Model 3 from which they ripped out HW2.5 and replaced it with HW3 in 2019).

For version 12, Tesla has abandoned its 300,000 lines of computer code, replacing it with another neural network that learns how to drive by watching labeled video of good drivers. No one outside of Tesla employees have tested V12, but Elon Musk did a livestream on X (FKT) demonstrating it and it only tried to kill him once (which is pretty good). And for good measure Tesla's shipping a new FSD computer and a revised camera suite (HW4).

Version 12, which copies human drivers, doesn't fully stop at stop signs.

Tesla has also gone back and forth on including ultrasonic sensors and radar in the cars. Both are gone in current production of Model 3 and Model Y (the most popular models).

[John Thomas8]

The only thing I see useful about a Tesla is the "dashcam" variety they haul around. If more vehicles came stock with that level of video or folks added them after market on other cars the he said/she said of traffic accident investigation would be eliminated (mostly) and the truth much more clear.

[raison de arizona]

Authorities searching for F-35 after 'mishap' over North Charleston
Officials said another pilot flying an F-35B Lightning II enabled an unspecified automated flight system and ejected over North Charleston.

NORTH CHARLESTON, S.C. — Military officials are searching for a jet after a "mishap" that forced the pilot to eject. But officials said there is no concrete evidence that the aircraft has crashed.

According to a spokesperson for Joint Base Charleston, the incident began around 2 p.m. when two pilots were flying. One of the jets landed at Joint Base Charleston without incident, but officials said another pilot flying an F-35B Lightning II enabled an unspecified automated flight system and ejected over North Charleston.

That pilot has since been found and taken to an area hospital for treatment and is said to be stable. However, the search continues for the pilot's aircraft, which authorities say doesn't appear to have crashed.

Based on the aircraft's last known location, search efforts are focused north of Joint Base Charleston near Lake Moultrie and Lake Marion.

"The public is asked to cooperate with military and civilian authorities as the recovery effort continues," a statement from Joint Base Charleston said.

https://www.wltx.com/article/news/regio ... ca1f0f234d

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

Maybe it’s the new Tesla model.

[raison de arizona]

Please call us if you find our missing F-35. Don't they put Lojack on those bad boys? An Apple Air Tag? Something? Phone home? Where does autopilot go when left to its own devices?

We’re working with @MCASBeaufortSC to locate an F-35 that was involved in a mishap this afternoon. The pilot ejected safely. If you have any information that may help our recovery teams locate the F-35, please call the Base Defense Operations Center at 843-963-3600.

[raison de arizona]

It didn't autonomously land, it flew itself into a field. Some autopilot. And a two-day stand-down is a big deal.

Debris field found in search for missing F-35 in South Carolina, officials say
The jet experienced a "mishap" on Sunday and its pilot ejected.

A debris field has been found in South Carolina during the search for a F-35 fighter jet that had gone missing after a "mishap" on Sunday, military officials confirmed in a statement on Monday night.

Officials said the debris was found in Williamsburg County some two hours northeast of Joint Base Charleston, which is now handing off command to the Marine Corps.

The pilot of the craft had "safely ejected" during the incident, authorities previously said.

A Marine Corps spokesperson said in a statement on Sunday "we are currently still gathering more information and assessing the situation. The mishap will be under investigation."

"We are unable to provide additional details to preserve the integrity of the investigative process," officials said in the statement on Monday.

"We would like to thank all of our mission partners, as well as local, county, and state authorities, for their dedication and support throughout the search and as we transition to the recovery phase," the officials said.

Earlier Monday, the Marine Corps acting commandant, Eric Smith, issued a two-day stand-down focused on safety and procedures to take place at some point this week for all aviation units both inside and outside of the United States, a spokesman told ABC News.

While Smith said he has full confidence in the aviation units, he said he felt this was the "right and prudent" thing to do given both this incident and another recent incident in Australia.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/debris- ... =103291654

[keith]

...some two hours northeast...

So exactly how far is "two hours"?

Is it two hours by foot? horse? car? train? piper cub? helicopter? crippled F35 Jet? supersonic F35 jet?

[RTH10260]

do you drive or travel

[raison de arizona]

do you drive or travel

I wasn't flying, I was piloting.