Fogbow

Posted: **Wed May 01, 2024 4:24 pm**

Welsh rarebit is pizza.

Posted: **Wed May 01, 2024 5:04 pm**

Rolodex wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 1:05 pm Huge day in mainstream denomination today. The United Methodist Church is in the middle of its quadrennial meeting right now (this is actually the 2020 meeting which was postponed bc of COVID).

I read an article about this earlier today. It seems that enough conservative congregations left the UMC that these measures to remove the homophobic BS rules are passing easily. The Methodists went through a period of disaffiliation where conservative churches were allowed to leave and take their properties with them. Most of the churches left because the UMC wasn't penalizing ministers who were officiating at gay weddings and carrying out their other homophobic rules.

Posted: **Wed May 01, 2024 5:10 pm**

zekeb wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 4:24 pm Welsh rarebit is pizza.

Na, nid caws ar dost yw pizza.

► Show Spoiler

Posted: **Wed May 01, 2024 6:43 pm**

Reality Check wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 5:04 pm
Rolodex wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 1:05 pm Huge day in mainstream denomination today. The United Methodist Church is in the middle of its quadrennial meeting right now (this is actually the 2020 meeting which was postponed bc of COVID).
I read an article about this earlier today. It seems that enough conservative congregations left the UMC that these measures to remove the homophobic BS rules are passing easily. The Methodists went through a period of disaffiliation where conservative churches were allowed to leave and take their properties with them. Most of the churches left because the UMC wasn't penalizing ministers who were officiating at gay weddings and carrying out their other homophobic rules.

Pretty accurate - most of the previously elected delegates who'd left the UMC resigned their spot, but believe it or not, some of the conservatives were still there, stirring up trouble. And there was still concern about the African delegates; they have huge numbers, probably more than US UMC members and are famously conservative.

I'm way involved in all this stuff. In 2019, at a special called General Conference, there were allegations of all kinds of shenanigans - conservatives paying off African delegates (and buying them phones and meals) in exchange for votes. They ended up creating a path for congregations to leave, with the idea that the liberal churches would be leaving due to the even more conservative stuff passed then. But that didn't happen (bc IMO the UMC was too nice to the conservatives once they decided to use that path. Then they complained it was too expensive even when they previously thought it was perfectly fine for the liberal congregations LOL). My issue was the conservatives always had a path to leave...just go and join another church (like the Baptists you want to be). But no, they wanted to leave the UMC but keep the assets of their property (individual church property actually belongs to the UMC, not the congregation). It's been a hot mess.

My bishop has been assuring everyone that no church is going to be "forced" to have a gay pastor* or have same sex weddings (which is true). Being in Alabama I don't think my own church will have rainbow flags outside any time soon but now my battle is to keep the trustees from voting to bar weddings. Hearts change slower than laws.

*funny, but there are already gay clergy serving; their congregations just didn't know, esp here in the South

Posted: **Wed May 01, 2024 6:44 pm**

Reality Check wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 5:04 pm
Rolodex wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 1:05 pm Huge day in mainstream denomination today. The United Methodist Church is in the middle of its quadrennial meeting right now (this is actually the 2020 meeting which was postponed bc of COVID).
I read an article about this earlier today. It seems that enough conservative congregations left the UMC that these measures to remove the homophobic BS rules are passing easily. The Methodists went through a period of disaffiliation where conservative churches were allowed to leave and take their properties with them. Most of the churches left because the UMC wasn't penalizing ministers who were officiating at gay weddings and carrying out their other homophobic rules.

Pretty accurate - most of the previously elected delegates who'd left the UMC resigned their spot, but believe it or not, some of the conservatives were still there, stirring up trouble. And there was still concern about the African delegates; they have huge numbers, probably more than US UMC members and are famously conservative.

I'm way involved in all this stuff. In 2019, at a special called General Conference, there were allegations of all kinds of shenanigans - conservatives paying off African delegates (and buying them phones and meals) in exchange for votes. They ended up creating a path for congregations to leave, with the idea that the liberal churches would be leaving due to the even more conservative stuff passed then. But that didn't happen (bc IMO the UMC was too nice to the conservatives once they decided to use that path. Then they complained it was too expensive even when they previously thought it was perfectly fine for the liberal congregations LOL). My issue was the conservatives always had a path to leave...just go and join another church (like the Baptists you want to be). But no, they wanted to leave the UMC but keep the assets of their property (individual church property actually belongs to the UMC, not the congregation). It's been a hot mess.

My bishop has been assuring everyone that no church is going to be "forced" to have a gay pastor* or have same sex weddings (which is true). Being in Alabama I don't think my own church will have rainbow flags outside any time soon but now my battle is to keep the trustees from voting to bar weddings. Hearts change slower than laws.

*funny, but there are already gay clergy serving; their congregations just didn't know, esp here in the South

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 10:27 am**

‘A step back in time': America’s Catholic Church sees an immense shift toward the old ways

By TIM SULLIVAN
Updated 6:07 AM GMT+2, May 1, 2024

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — It was the music that changed first. Or maybe that’s just when many people at the pale brick Catholic church in the quiet Wisconsin neighborhood finally began to realize what was happening.

The choir director, a fixture at St. Maria Goretti for nearly 40 years, was suddenly gone. Contemporary hymns were replaced by music rooted in medieval Europe.

So much was changing. Sermons were focusing more on sin and confession. Priests were rarely seen without cassocks. Altar girls, for a time, were banned.

At the parish elementary school, students began hearing about abortion and hell.

“It was like a step back in time,” said one former parishioner, still so dazed by the tumultuous changes that began in 2021 with a new pastor that he only spoke on condition of anonymity.

It’s not just St. Maria Goretti.

https://apnews.com/article/catholic-chu ... 3ffc8ed487

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 11:03 am**

Go with Eastern Orthodox. They hardly changed. Change is hard to do when you need unanimous approval from the bishops.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 12:07 pm**

My Russian Orthodox cleric smiled through his big white beard and agreed when I told him my understanding of the Orthodox sects' view of other sects is "We respect other denominations' interpretations and practices. But they are all wrong."

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 12:36 pm**

Yeah, but they all say that.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 12:49 pm**

AndyinPA wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 12:36 pm Yeah, but they all say that.

No. Not all have that amalgam of tolerance but complete denial.

Plenty of sects have condemned other sects as unchristian or heretical over the centuries and now. Plenty. Getting excited and arguing bitterly about whether the wafer transubstantiates or consubstantiates*, how many bits of god(s) there are, whether statues are graven images, and so forth.
_______
* a classic theological question in that the correct answer is "neither": it's a wafer and remains so, whatever anybody pretends

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 3:51 pm**

they better be careful what they wish for
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-rally-jesus-name/

Before Trump could take the stage in Waukesha, a speaker invited the crowd to pray with her.

"And so, we call on you today and ask you to grant President Trump wisdom and discernment, strength and resolve to lead the return of our magnificent country to be that shining city on a hill," the woman asked God.

"O Lord, raise up among us men and women who will commit to restoring our nation to the principles and ideals of our founding fathers."

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 4:28 pm**

AndyinPA wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 12:36 pm Yeah, but they all say that.

My minister used to say something about being tolerant of other people's religions because we are "all Lutheran when we die anyway."

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 5:10 pm**

Flatpoint High wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 3:51 pm they better be careful what they wish for
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-rally-jesus-name/
Before Trump could take the stage in Waukesha, a speaker invited the crowd to pray with her.

"And so, we call on you today and ask you to grant President Trump wisdom and discernment, strength and resolve to lead the return of our magnificent country to be that shining city on a hill," the woman asked God.

"O Lord, raise up among us men and women who will commit to restoring our nation to the principles and ideals of our founding fathers."

I don't know who that person is praying, but I'm listening to a really good (and really scary) pod right now about the special kind of charismatics around him. It gives a history of where these people came from, what they believe and how they came to support Trump. It's called Charismatic Revival Fury and hoo boy those people need to go away.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 5:12 pm**

: Yeah, That.png (62.71 KiB) Viewed 1203 times

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 7:46 pm**

: blue.jpg (50.59 KiB) Viewed 1182 times

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 10:20 pm**

We had what appeared to be a Pizza Hijack, but then I remembered that pizza is a religion, so it was on topic.

Pineapple on pizza is a more vicious topic of debate than chairs vs. pews.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 10:49 pm**

Narthex vs entrance.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 11:21 pm**

zekeb wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 10:49 pm Narthex vs entrance.

Vomitory versus egress versus exit versus way out.

I'm not sure I understand this game.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 11:34 pm**

Wrong thread.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2024 11:43 pm**

It's narthex. And pews.

Posted: **Fri May 03, 2024 4:17 am**

Rolodex wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 11:43 pm It's narthex. And pews.

Genuine question, what is not pews? (So to speak.)

Benches? Seats? I never attended lectures in hermeneutic eschatology so some major issues escape me.

Posted: **Fri May 03, 2024 7:58 am**

Sam the Centipede wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 4:17 am
Rolodex wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 11:43 pm It's narthex. And pews.
Genuine question, what is not pews? (So to speak.)

Benches? Seats? I never attended lectures in hermeneutic eschatology so some major issues escape me.

Chairs

Pews

Posted: **Fri May 03, 2024 8:06 am**

And don't forget the old box pews which you can still find in some of the churches on the East Coast. In days of old, these were rented by families.

Various flavors of Easter Orthodox churches don't have the pews vs chairs debate. They have neither. They stand.

This is more impressive given the length of their liturgy.

Posted: **Fri May 03, 2024 8:07 am**

Those are pews because they have kneelers. Otherwise they'd be benches. I was always a back-bencher.

Posted: **Fri May 03, 2024 8:10 am**

If people want my opinion on the thing posted, honestly I have no idea about it. Anything I would say about what's going on would be a blind guess. So I would prefer not to say anything than blather bullshit.

If its being done without talking to people about it, then that's not a good thing.

Fogbow

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