INDICTED (INDICATED) #3 USA v Donald Trump - Judge Tanya Chutkan - #J6 Election Interference, Fake Electors - Jack Smith

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INDICTED (INDICATED) #3 USA v Donald Trump - Judge Tanya Chutkan - #J6 Election Interference, Fake Electors - Jack Smith

#551

Post by Volkonski »

Jack Smith cites potential witness intimidation in opposing cameras in Trump case

https://www.rawstory.com/jack-smith-cameras-in-court/
"The relief the Applicants seek is clearly foreclosed under Rule 53 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure and Local Criminal Rule 53.1.1," Smith wrote in the Friday filing. "Courts have long upheld Rule 53’s constitutionality, and the Applicants provide no reasoned basis for a different result here."

The filing goes on to say the Judicial Conference "has long rejected the policy prescriptions the applicants advocate."

"This Court should deny the Applications," he wrote in the nighttime brief. The Judicial Conference, Smith wrote, concluded that the "intimidating effect of cameras on some witnesses and jurors remained a concern."
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INDICTED (INDICATED) #3 USA v Donald Trump - Judge Tanya Chutkan - #J6 Election Interference, Fake Electors - Jack Smith

#552

Post by bob »

chancery wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:43 pm
bob wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:32 pm
"For completeness," the judges on the panel issuing the order were nominated by Obama (two judges) and Biden.
Is that just a motion panel, or is it the merits panel as well?
I assume it is the motions panel, and it will also rule on the merits of the motion.
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#553

Post by MN-Skeptic »

If you can read the tweet, go there because it's a thread being created right now. Below I've quoted what Kyle Cheney has written so far, but he also has screen shots of the motion which he is referencing.

Motion found here - https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... filing.pdf


Kyle Cheney
@kyledcheney

JUST IN: Prosecutors have filed their motion opopsing Trump's attempt to dismiss his DC charges. on constitutional grounds.

"The defendant stands alone in American history for his alleged crimes."

Trump's argument that because his efforts to overturn the election didn't succeed is akin to saying prospective bank robbers caught en route to the bank couldn't be charged with conspiracy, Smith's team argues.

NOTABLE: Smith argues that even if Trump could show he genuinely believed the election was stolen it has no bearing on his criminality because he still used "fraud and deceit to remedy what he perceived to be a wrong."

MORE: Smith notes that five of Trump's elector slates were fraudulent "on their face" and that the true goal was to use them to falsely conjure of a "bona fide dispute" to put pressure on Mike Pence.

This is important too. Smith says Trump claiming Pence had the power. to overturn the election isn't actionable on its own. Misstating the law is not enough. But Trump premised that exhortation on lies about fraud.

MORE: Smith says Trump's claims of "First Amendment" protection fail because he didn't just lie and say the election was stolen. He made specific claims targeted at government functions as part of a scheme to commit fraud.

Smith ran through Trump's effort to compare his election challenges to those in 1800, 1824, 1876, 1960 and 2000.

"Notably absent from any of these historical episodes, however, is any attempt by any person to use fraud and deceit to obstruct."

NOTABLE: In a separate filing, Smith indicates he plans to introduce evidence at trial that Trump stoked the Jan. 6 riot and then used it to further his aims to obstruct congressional proceedings. Tis includes Trump's subsequent praise of Jan. 6 as a "beautiul day" and J6 choir.

EVEN MORE: In a third filing, Smith sharply rejects Trump's motion to dismiss the case for "selective" or "vindictive" prosection. "The indictment in this case is the result of a thorough and impartial investigation guided by the facts and applicable law."
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#554

Post by chancery »

I'm reading the collection of extremely strong opposition briefs to Trump's motions to dismiss and strike filed today by the Special Counsel in the January 6 Indictment, and I occasionally need to dip into Trump's moving papers. As usual, I gag every time I encounter the creepy and groveling practice of Trump's lawyers in referring to their client as "President Trump."

Just now it occurred to me that a proper response would echo Bertie Wooster's reprimand to Roderick Spade of the loathsome and ludicrous Black Shorts, i.e.,
Look at that frightful ass Trump swanking about pretending to be President.
If you haven't read The Code of the Woosters, one of P.G. Wodehouse's masterpieces, the context is explained in Wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderick_Spode
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#555

Post by NewMexGirl »

chancery wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 12:52 am :snippity:

If you haven't read The Code of the Woosters, one of P.G. Wodehouse's masterpieces, the context is explained in Wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderick_Spode
OT: When I was twelve years old I received a two-page letter from P.G. Wodehouse and an autographed copy of one of his books. That remains the high light of my reading life.
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INDICTED (INDICATED) #3 USA v Donald Trump - Judge Tanya Chutkan - #J6 Election Interference, Fake Electors - Jack Smith

#557

Post by much ado »

I'm impressed!
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#558

Post by chancery »

NewMexGirl wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 3:19 am OT: When I was twelve years old I received a two-page letter from P.G. Wodehouse and an autographed copy of one of his books. That remains the high light of my reading life.
My goodness, that's wonderful! :thumbsup:
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#559

Post by RTH10260 »

Special counsel urges judge in federal election interference case to reject Trump’s dismissal attempts

By Holmes Lybrand and Hannah Rabinowitz, CNN
Published 6:43 PM EST, Mon November 6, 2023

CNN — Prosecutors from special counsel Jack Smith’s office urged the judge overseeing the federal election interference case against Donald Trump to reject the former president’s attempts to dismiss the charges against him on constitutional grounds, saying his arguments rely on “distortions and misrepresentations.”

While Trump has repeatedly attacked the case against him on the campaign trail and in court filings, the special counsel’s court filing on Monday marks the first time prosecutors have defended their historic criminal prosecution against the former president in court.

“The defendant attempts to rewrite the indictment, claiming that it charges him with wholly innocuous, perhaps even admirable conduct—sharing his opinions about election fraud and seeking election integrity—when in fact it clearly describes the defendant’s fraudulent use of knowingly false statements as weapons in furtherance of his criminal plans,” prosecutors wrote in the filing.

“But the defendant stands alone in American history for his alleged crimes,” they wrote. “No other president has engaged in conspiracy and obstruction to overturn valid election results and illegitimately retain power.”




https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/06/poli ... index.html
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#560

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer »

Off Topic
I love P. G. Wodehouse! The Jeeves/Bertie Wooster books are laugh out loud funny! Or in the voice of our youth - 💀 .
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INDICTED (INDICATED) #3 USA v Donald Trump - Judge Tanya Chutkan - #J6 Election Interference, Fake Electors - Jack Smith

#561

Post by Suranis »

Off Topic
The Jeeves and Wooster Complete series - Hugh Laurie as Bertie Wooster, and Stephen Fry as Jeeves.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... iUqp9B8Chp



Probably the best PG Woodhouse adaption ever made. Do yourself a favour and watch this playlist.
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#562

Post by chancery »

Off Topic
Suranis wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:27 pm The Jeeves and Wooster Complete series - Hugh Laurie as Bertie Wooster, and Stephen Fry as Jeeves.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... iUqp9B8Chp



Probably the best PG Woodhouse adaption adaption ever made. Do yourself a favour and watch this playlist.
:like:
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INDICTED (INDICATED) #3 USA v Donald Trump - Judge Tanya Chutkan - #J6 Election Interference, Fake Electors - Jack Smith

#564

Post by MN-Skeptic »

Just an FYI update -


Darren Samuelsohn
@dsamuelsohn

JUST IN: The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit issues an order spelling out the schedule for Nov. 20 oral arguments in the Trump gag order appeal.

Arguments will consist of 20 minutes for the former president's legal team, followed by 20 minutes from Jack Smith's prosecutors.
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#565

Post by MN-Skeptic »


Kyle Cheney
@kyledcheney

JUST IN: Judge Chutkan will require Trump to disclose by Jan. 15 whether he intends to use an "advice of counsel" defense in his Washington, D.C. trial — and to provide relevant documentation of that defense at the same time.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... .147.0.pdf
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#566

Post by NewMexGirl »

It is my IANAL understanding that the gag order appeal will not have an impact on progress in Chutkan’s courtroom, but what about the “advice of counsel” defense issue? Will this delay the start of the trial :?:
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Post by Rolodex »

I'm sure he'll use advice of counsel - all his lawyers got indicted (except the ones who gave him advice based on the actual truth - WH lawyers, etc), so ... yeah. Bad advice. He'll use every defense under the sun, no matter how stupid, up to and including "my dog ate it."
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#568

Post by Maybenaut »

NewMexGirl wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:20 pm It is my IANAL understanding that the gag order appeal will not have an impact on progress in Chutkan’s courtroom, but what about the “advice of counsel” defense issue? Will this delay the start of the trial :?:
I doubt it would cause any delay. Defendants are routinely required to state well in advance of trial if they plan on relying on special defenses so there won’t be any surprises at trial. There will be an opportunity for motions about the defense (whether it applies, whether the evidence in support is admissible, etc). But none of this is novel or unexpected - the judge takes all of this into consideration when setting the trial schedule.
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#569

Post by bob »

Maybenaut wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:06 pm
NewMexGirl wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:20 pm It is my IANAL understanding that the gag order appeal will not have an impact on progress in Chutkan’s courtroom, but what about the “advice of counsel” defense issue? Will this delay the start of the trial :?:
I doubt it would cause any delay. Defendants are routinely required to state well in advance of trial if they plan on relying on special defenses so there won’t be any surprises at trial. There will be an opportunity for motions about the defense (whether it applies, whether the evidence in support is admissible, etc). But none of this is novel or unexpected - the judge takes all of this into consideration when setting the trial schedule.
Too also: The defendant certainly can request a continuance, e.g., "Your Honor, I have so much homework now to do, there's no way I can be ready by the trial date you previously had set."

And if such a motion is made, I would expect this judge's ruling to be: :roll: :bored: :nope: :kickface: .
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#570

Post by chancery »

bob wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:39 pm
Maybenaut wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:06 pm
NewMexGirl wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:20 pm It is my IANAL understanding that the gag order appeal will not have an impact on progress in Chutkan’s courtroom, but what about the “advice of counsel” defense issue? Will this delay the start of the trial :?:
I doubt it would cause any delay. Defendants are routinely required to state well in advance of trial if they plan on relying on special defenses so there won’t be any surprises at trial. There will be an opportunity for motions about the defense (whether it applies, whether the evidence in support is admissible, etc). But none of this is novel or unexpected - the judge takes all of this into consideration when setting the trial schedule.
Too also: The defendant certainly can request a continuance, e.g., "Your Honor, I have so much homework now to do, there's no way I can be ready by the trial date you previously had set."

And if such a motion is made, I would expect this judge's ruling to be: :roll: :bored: :nope: :kickface: .
Two of Trump's motions to dismiss do have the potential for substantial delay, because they are subject to immediate interlocutory appeal, and the trial cannot be held until resolution of such appeals. These are the double jeopardy motion and the absolute criminal immunity motion. The government's opposition to Trump's motion to stay all proceedings has urged the court to decide both motions as soon as possible. ECF 142 https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 42.0_4.pdf

The double jeopardy motion is extremely weak, and the government has requested that the court not just deny the motion but also make a finding that it is "frivolous," which would authorize the court to deny a stay of proceedings pending an interlocutory appeal of the motion's denial. See ECF 139. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 39.0_8.pdf

The absolute criminal immunity motion is a different story. It's flawed and full of holes, but the government does not contend that the court should make a finding of frivolousness, and all but concedes that an appeal from denial of the motion would to some extent stay proceedings in the district court.
To prevent the defendant from using the timing of any such appeal to disrupt the Court’s trial date, the Court should promptly consider and decide his immunity and double jeopardy motions. If the Court rules in the Government’s favor and the defendant appeals, the Government will take all possible measures to expedite the appeal, see Apostol v. Gallion, 870 F.2d 1335, 1339-40 (7th Cir. 1989) (identifying mechanisms such as requesting summary affirmance or asking to expedite the appeal), just as the defendant sought to expedite his appeal of the Court’s Rule 57.7 Order—relief that the court of appeals provided. See United States v. Trump, No. 23-3190, Order (D.C. Cir. Nov. 3, 2023) (expediting merits briefing and oral argument). In any event, although a non-frivolous appeal would temporarily divest this Court of jurisdiction, it would do so over only “those aspects of the case involved in the appeal.” Griggs v. Provident Consumer Discount Co., 459 U.S. 56, 58 (1982) (per curiam). In sum, the Court’s prompt resolution of the defendant’s immunity and double jeopardy claims would best position this case to stay on track with its current pretrial schedule and trial date.
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#571

Post by NewMexGirl »

To bob, Maybenaut and chancery:

:bighug: :bighug: :bighug: :like:


I do so love the legal stuff.
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#572

Post by Kendra »

:?: :?: :?:

Over the last couple of days I've seen interviews with Chris Christie and he's very adamant that Mark Meadows is cooperating and will be the first one on the stand at trial and tfg should be quaking in his boots. I don't recall anything definitive that Meadows is cooperating, but :oldlady: so maybe I missed it?
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#573

Post by chancery »

Meadows was compelled to testify before a grand jury by a grant of immunity. It's not cooperation as that term is ordinarily understood. As far as I know, Christie is speculating, and although he's an experienced former federal prosecutor, I wouldn't give this speculation much credence without other evidence.
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Post by Kendra »

Thanks chancery, that helps. It's hard to keep track of it all.
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#575

Post by much ado »

chancery wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 1:08 pm Meadows was compelled to testify before a grand jury by a grant of immunity. It's not cooperation as that term is ordinarily understood. As far as I know, Christie is speculating, and although he's an experienced former federal prosecutor, I wouldn't give this speculation much credence without other evidence.
But we can always hope... :daydreaming:
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