Fogbow

I think NY also passed a law tolling various S/Ls during COVID.

Under CPL 207, the statute of limitations is tolled when "a person departs from the state and remains continuously absent therefrom for four months or more." Apparently there can be gnarly issues in determining whether a given period qualifies. IANANYCrL.

Sorry, wrong statute, see below.

Who had "Gumby calls out the truth on Fox News" on their Bingo card? Now MAGA is going nuts calling him a TRAITOR.

sterngard friegen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:03 pm The indictment isn't very good. I see no conspiracy charges, no New York RICO charges, no charges of attempt. It's all "bad documents."

I am quite disappointed.

Great to see you, Stern!!!

Plus, too, this IANAL agrees. I’m disappointed.

Mar-a-Lago tonight, getting ready for Trump’s statement on his indictment.

Patagoniagirl wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:36 pm Am I nuts? Have I lost my.mind? Possibly both. I believe I just saw part of trump attorneys presser and I thought I saw someone holding out a a fake leg with a garter and and old fashioned landline phone. Help me, I don't know what reality is anymore.

I saw it too - that's just too weird!

This Zoom link will be available starting at 1925 Eastern US:

https://netapp.zoom.com/j/5506823210

Here's "the defendant's son" signing one of the checks for the fraudulent payments. And boy were there were a lot of fraudulent invoices:

chancery wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 5:24 pm Under CPL 207, the statute of limitations is tolled when "a person departs from the state and remains continuously absent therefrom for four months or more." Apparently there can be gnarly issues in determining whether a given period qualifies. IANANYCrL.

Sorry, wrong statute, see below.

Copied this too hastily from a secondary source. It's the statute dealing with tolling in civil cases; the source erroneously used the abbreviation CPL, not CPLR, which threw me off.

Here's the rule applicable to criminal prosecutions, from CPL § 30.10:

4. In calculating the time limitation applicable to commencement of a criminal action, the following periods shall not be included:

(a) Any period following the commission of the offense during which (i) the defendant was continuously outside this state or (ii) the whereabouts of the defendant were continuously unknown and continuously unascertainable by the exercise of reasonable diligence.  However, in no event shall the period of limitation be extended by more than five years beyond the period otherwise applicable under subdivision two.

However, the comment about gnarly issues about whether a given period qualifies is apparently correct.

I avoid disappointment by avoiding expectations.

I'm just kind of amused at how for months it's been "Come on! Somebody just indict this guy!" and as soon as we get an indictment it's "No! It's all wrong!"

I'm just hoping that if this thing is going to get shitcanned, the special counsel and GA DA file before that happens so they don't get scared off by NY's failure.

First welcome back Stern from another

I will give Bragg the benefit of the doubt. He (and his people) worked with the grand jury many days and probably had a good feel for what he could get them to vote for affirmatively. I don't think the old yarn that a DA could indict a ham sandwich is true.

He is in uncharted waters indic[a]ting a former president so I will cut his some slack for being cautious.

Welcome back, Stern!
Hi! to Mary Contrary too also!

I am not disappointed about the lack of conspiracy charges especially after what happened in Oregon with jurors who were so literal with the jury instructions. Jurors understand writing checks and will be schooled on the payoffs to catch and kill the story. It’s meat and potatoes, but I would rather have a felony conviction on the basics than a “Not Guilty” on conspiracy.

pipistrelle wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:07 pm I avoid disappointment by avoiding expectations.

Don't blink!

Regarding the tolling of the SOL:

He did make an affirmative move to Florida during 2019. Whether this constitutes "time being out of the state" or not is for smarter people than I. I would have more of a problem concerning his tenure in the White House prior to his Florida move. I understand that most federal politicians do not abandon their home states during their times as elected officials. I would eagerly entertain argument that he never left his home in New York when he became President.

I realize that tax laws do not translate to criminal Statutes of Limitation. But DC does not tax (from my personal experience) income from bona fide residents of other states. I have prepared personal returns for lawyers living in Virginia and Maryland but practicing in DC. I have also prepared returns from a former cabinet secretary. None of these people ever filed DC returns.

humblescribe wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:46 pm Regarding the tolling of the SOL:

Does anyone know what the SOL on these crimes is? For some reason I've got 5 years in mind. IIUC, the event constituting the alleged crime took place in 2016, so he would have used 3 years of the SOL before his move to Florida, right? Since he's not been in NYC for any appreciable time, I would think there's no problem with the SOL if what I wrote above is all correct (which it may not be, I realize)

Also, what is the issue with tolling the SOL because of COVID and how would that effect the calculations.

Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:12 am

humblescribe wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:46 pm Regarding the tolling of the SOL:

Does anyone know what the SOL on these crimes is? For some reason I've got 5 years in mind. IIUC, the event constituting the alleged crime took place in 2016, so he would have used 3 years of the SOL before his move to Florida, right? Since he's not been in NYC for any appreciable time, I would think there's no problem with the SOL if what I wrote above is all correct (which it may not be, I realize)

Also, what is the issue with tolling the SOL because of COVID and how would that effect the calculations.

As I understand it (and, as always, I'm not a lawyer), the SoL on the misdemeanor offenses is two years, but, because they were done in furtherance of a felony, that bumps them up to felonies and extends the SoL to five years. When I heard about the tolling of the NY SoL because of COVID, it was said that the DA had until sometime this spring (June?) to bring charges based on the amount of time added and the date of Michael Cohen's last reimbursement (when the SoL would have started to run). We'll see, but I kind of doubt that they would use his moving of his official residence to Florida as time spent out of state for the SoL -- he still maintained a residence in New York which he may have used, if infrequently.

Hi Stern!

While I would have liked to see RICO charges too. also, I think that the filing of any charges at all was important to make Trump a criminal defendant. The one thing that is crystal clear about Trump is that he cannot shut up and, moreover, he has no principles to use as touchstones. The more he speaks, the more things he says that can be used against him and the more likely it is that he will say something that pisses off the judge. Not to mention that getting him on the record with defenses in court will tie him down and reduce his ability to defend himself against later charges, because while he might be able to come up with plausible defenses for everything he's being investigated for, I doubt very much that all of his stories can be reconciled with each other... and then there's the knowing lies he's been telling.

Anyway, I think that the cases in New York are just to soften him up and go after his money (which is a big deal, mind you), it's Fanni Willis and Jack Smith that are going to prove whether or not Trump can be held accountable for his actions. If they wimp out or screw up then our legal system is in real trouble, but hopefully Bragg's indications will help harden their resolve and dilute Trump's ability to incite violence and grift off of his victimhood. Already the relentless drawing of the focus (and donations) away from actual issues that matter has flipped Wisconsin's Supreme Court to liberals. While the media looks like it is once again (or still) addicted to Trump ratings, I don't think that "all Trump all the time" is going to be nearly as beneficial to the Republican party.

Just my $0.019999999999999999...

Per these screenshots, the next scheduled court date is in December:

I presume there will be hearings on motions, etc., before then.

Slarti the White wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:49 am While I would have liked to see RICO charges too. also, I think that the filing of any charges at all was important to make Trump a criminal defendant. The one thing that is crystal clear about Trump is that he cannot shut up

Will Trump testify? Will his lawyers try to muzzle him? Will they succeed? If Trump goes into the box, will he hide behind the fifth?

It's only the criminal courts that can't draw adverse inferences from a defendant's refusal to testify – those of us outside the courts can draw inferences of guilt for those who ignore the precept to "tell the truth and shame the devil." And we will.

Of course Trumpies won't draw adverse inferences from anything their totem says or does. They are not of this world.

Daniel Dale, CNN-

Fact check: Trump delivers barrage of false claims in first post-indictment address

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/04/politics ... index.html

Former President Donald Trump made a speech at his Mar-a-Lago resort on Tuesday night after he was arraigned in Manhattan on felony charges of falsifying business records – and delivered a barrage of false claims that have been previously debunked.

Trump pleaded not guilty to all the charges Tuesday.

The former president was repeatedly inaccurate when he pivoted to the subject of the federal investigation into his handling of official governments. He also repeated some of his favorite falsehoods on a variety of other subjects.

Kendra wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:06 pm

He did the Josh Hawley with his tiny hand!

Hi Stern!!

One Tin Felon rides aawaaaaaaaay!

Savannah Guthrie asked Tacopina a good question here. Note that Tacopina didn't really answer it.