The Colonization of North America

[LM K]

Lets hear it from the Aboriginal people of Canada themselves. This is an extremely long web site with different articles with lots of different authors. I'll exerpt from one of them but you really should take time to read the whole thing.

We have heard from the Aboriginal people.
https://nctr.ca/records/reports/

You seem to keep missing that in the post you're referring to, I had linked to the formal Truth and Reconciliation Report at the bottom of the post.

As the actual truth and Reconciliation commission report shows there were bad things that happened. But that does not change the fact that 90% or the stories floating around are the fantasies of a sov cit defroked Church of Canada Minister.

"Bad things happened"? Beatings, psychological abuse, and sexual abuse are just "bad things"? They are horrific. Children died at much higher rates in these schools than children who lived outside of these schools. Again, the schools were run by Catholic and Protestant churches in Canada and the US (and other countries).

You seem to think that Pope Benedict expressing "sorrow" and saying that "acts of abuse cannot be tolerated" is an apology. Pope Benedict NEVER issued a formal apology. His words were said at a meeting with delegates. The Truth and Reconciliation Report has recommended that the church offer a formal apology.

When Pope Francis stood overlooking St. Peter’s Square Sunday, he expressed his pain over the remains of 215 Indigenous students found at the site of a church-run residential school in Kamloops, B.C.

"I join with the Canadian bishops and the entire Catholic Church in Canada in expressing my closeness to the Canadian people traumatized by the shocking news," Francis said, acknowledging the “sad discovery” adds to the sorrow and suffering of the past.

Yet while he pressed religious and political authorities to shed light on the issue, his remarks fell short of the official apology Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Canadian Indigenous leaders, and Catholics alike have long called for.


The church has also refused to release many of its documents related to residential schools, which experts say could shed light on more unmarked burial sites, despite its obligation to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) to do so.

HOW HAS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ADDRESSED THE ABUSE?
In 2009, Pope Benedict XVI “offered his sympathy and prayerful solidarity” to those who had been affected by the abuse at residential schools while speaking to a delegation from Canada's Assembly of First Nations.

While he called the abuse “deplorable,” it was not considered an official apology.

In 2017, Trudeau personally asked Pope Francis to apologize for the institution's role in the residential school system. But the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops later said that the Pope could not personally apologize for residential schools, even though he has not shied away from recognizing injustices faced by Indigenous people around the world.


WHAT CONSTITUTES A PAPAL APOLOGY?
Papal apologies usually happen in person in countries where the abuse took place, which means Pope Francis would, in theory, have to travel to Canada to officially apologize.

You like to ignore my comments about the role of Protestant churches. I've NEVER been anti-Catholic. I've NEVER demonized the Catholic church. I think the Catholic church does a much better job on social justice issues than Protestant churches.

Your need to play the victim here is tedious and, frankly, disturbing. I haven't attacked your faith. Stop acting like I have.

ETA: I really would like to read your info on Tuam.

[Suranis]

We have heard from the Aboriginal people.
https://nctr.ca/records/reports/

You seem to keep missing that in the post you're referring to, I had linked to the formal Truth and Reconciliation Report at the bottom of the post.

Firstly, the link you used was https://www.concordia.ca/library/guides ... -trc-.html Don't start of with something incorrect. I'm sure that is my fault.

You seem to have missed that the link was talking about KEVIN ARNETT and his lies about the abuse, and the real damage his lies have created.

And you seem to have missed that what you quoted was NOT from the Truth & Reconciliation report link but was from a wayback machine to a site that no longer exists, taking figures from Kevin Arnetts bullshit "report" in 2001.

And ya I quoted whole passages from the Truth and reconciliation report WHICH YOU LINKED TO. That's where we got the real figure of 3000 children dying not the figure of 50,000, which came directly from the head of Arnett and which you seem determined to stick to like a Lampray.

Its not my fault that your own link said that your quotation was bullshit.

I pointed out how what you posted , about the 50000 deaths and priests electrocuting kids (thats as far as I wrote as I'm not into descriptions of torture) was deceptively made to look like it was from the T&R report, when it wasn't. That wasn't an attack on you, it was an attack on wherever you copy and pasted that from.

The actual report put the figure of deaths at 3,000. If you are upset at that there is something wrong with you.

"Bad things happened"? Beatings, psychological abuse, and sexual abuse are just "bad things"? They are horrific. Children died at much higher rates in these schools than children who lived outside of these schools. Again, the schools were run by Catholic and Protestant churches in Canada and the US (and other countries).

You seem to be upset that you lost 47,000 deaths. According to the Truth and reconciliation report. Which you linked to. And then pretended that I hadn't seen it. And now you want to forget that and you are putting up a NEW standard of deaths - more than the death rate in the rest of Canada. Lovely, do you have the actual figures to confirm that? What a surprise you didn't.

SOOOOO hey lets look at another news report. This from 2015 says the number was 6000 - pending release of the final report- which said 3000 deaths. I'm not going to quibble.

Again nowhere near the your idea of 50000 children which you used Arnett's bullshit to confirm.

This news report indicates that it was freaking terrible, but at least the odds of dying lessened over time, thank goodness.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/trut ... -1.3096185

Odds of a student dying over the life of the program: 1 in 25 (if 6,000)

Odds of dying for Canadians serving in the Second World War: 1 in 26
According to Saturday Night magazine, reporting on residential schools, Nov. 23, 1907: "Indian boys and girls are dying like flies.... Even war seldom shows as large a percentage of fatalities as does the education system we have imposed on our Indian wards."

Odds of a residential school student dying in the early years of the program: 1 in 2

Duncan Campbell Scott, then deputy superintendent-general of Indian Affairs, wrote in 1913: "It is quite within the mark to say that fifty per cent of the children who passed through these schools did not live to benefit from the education, which they had received therein."

During the program's first half-century, tuberculosis and then influenza were the primary killers. The neglect, abuse, lack of food, isolation from family and badly constructed buildings assisted disease in killing residential school "inmates," as Scott termed them. A lawyer who conducted a review in 1907 told the government, "Doing nothing to obviate the preventable causes of death, brings the Department within unpleasant nearness to the charge of manslaughter."

Even if the odds were 1 in 50 (if 3000 deaths), that's pretty fucking bad on its own.

It was bad enough besides you adding Arnett's lurid tales of Priests electrocuting kids, and whips with Razor blades. Jesus, the fact you are getting upset by the fact that shit was dis-proven means, ... yeesh.

Maybe be glad that the death tole was not as bad as you have been lead to believe?? Can't you even be happy about that small mercy?

Fuck sake 3000 - 6000 kids died of TB, malnutrition, flu, abuse and bad living conditions. You don't need to add extra crap on top of that. Oh I'm sorry are you upset that I'm adding on the other things that KILLED KIDS as well as the abuse, and you think this is in somehow minimizing the abuse, when you focused on the abuse and nothing else? Newsflash, I'm trying showing a complete picture.

You seem to think that Pope Benedict expressing "sorrow" and saying that "acts of abuse cannot be tolerated" is an apology. Pope Benedict NEVER issued a formal apology. His words were said at a meeting with delegates. The Truth and Reconciliation Report has recommended that the church offer a formal apology.

It seems to have been bloody good enough for the people that were actually abused. How dare you (and Treudeu) sit there and put yourself into their place and declare it is not the right kind of apology for YOU. But of course they are simple and their opinion does not matter as they are Savages and natives, right?

Frankly I think Treudeu is trying to obscure the Canadian Governments role in the scandal by getting everyone shouting about the CC. Oh you want evidence for that shocking statement? As mentioned in the bottom of your quote, the Pope would have to go to Canada to issue a Formal Apology;

Papal apologies usually happen in person in countries where the abuse took place, which means Pope Francis would, in theory, have to travel to Canada to officially apologize.

Shockingly, like every head of state, everything the Pope is doing and traveling is laid out in advance for years in the future. He cant just down tools and hop on a plane to Canada to give you your correct brand of apology. Treudeu knows that. which makes his sudden demand pretty self serving, but the anti-Catholic Press just laps it up.

Is the Pope making long term plans to go to Canada and apologies? I have no idea, but it would not surprise me. What country should he insult by cancelling his meetings with so he can go to Canada and give a "stand on one leg and hop up and down to satisfy MEEEE" apology?

You like to ignore my comments about the role of Protestant churches. I've NEVER been anti-Catholic. I've NEVER demonized the Catholic church. I think the Catholic church does a much better job on social justice issues than Protestant churches.

Your need to play the victim here is tedious and, frankly, disturbing. I haven't attacked your faith. Stop acting like I have.

No, you just attacked the truth of what ACTUALLY HAPPENED. That's the point that you keep missing. My "defending the catholic church" is actually looking at the reports and seeing what actually happened and what they ACTUALLY say, whereas people like you cling desperately to myths. The truth is less dramatic, less structured and less EEEEVVIIILL than you want to be. Your flipping around and altering facts about what you said is proof enough of unconscious bias.

Thing is Pedos would avoid the Priesthood now as its under too much scrutiny. They would go elsewhere where they can stay out of the sunlight with and abuse the system to get access to kids.

It's a very lonely thing to be the guy that actually looks at evidence and be the one that actually talks about what it says. Its hard to be the one that points out what the Catholics did NOT do in the face of people who just want there to be complete guilt. Hard to be the one that clicks links, reads them and tells the linker it does not say what they think it said.

But someone fucking has to do it. Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.

ETA: I really would like to read your info on Tuam.

Then look it up. I've done enough waving the truth in your face and seeing you ignore it. I'm sure Paethos has plenty of made up tales of baby suffering for you to enjoy.

Oh, and as for you saying that I was ignoring Protestants, shockingly I was ignoring Catholics too. I actually don't care. I was talking about the overall death tole, no matter who did it. You might notice that you mentioned Catholics far more than I did. For the record Catholic orders were hired to run around 60% of them, and I really don't know if they were better or worse than the ones ran by others.

Chapter 2&3 of the T&R report has a pretty facinating discussion of the role of Missionaries in early attempts to "civilize" the natives, and how the missionaries (both C and P) were often at odds with the Goverment on turning the natives into good little Frenchmen or Englishmen. Not because they necessarily cared about the natives, but becasue the missionaries actually had a rather dim view of English and French culture as well as the Native culture. So they tried to educate them away from the corrupting influence of the Secular culture, the Jesuits actually building Seminaries on native land in their rather unsuccessful attempt to educate and convert the natives.

Yes, I have read some of the report. You should try it.

[Patagoniagirl]

I cannot understand the obliviously harsh pushback and justification and comparisons in the post above. I think that Sur needs some kind of intervention for serious mental health and anger issues. I've never blocked anyone on TFB, but it appears to be time.

[LM K]

Suranis, you're a disturbed individual.

I'll address a few things ... and then I'm done.

1. On Sun, I admitted that I fucked up. I don't understand why you keep lashing at me when I admitted, nearly a week ago, that I fucked up.

2. If you scan down the link you mention, you will find a link to the complete Truth and Reconciliation Report. I'd post a SS if you'd like, but just click the link. Here's the link again: https://www.concordia.ca/library/guides ... -trc-.html

3. Yes, I've posted about Catholics more in this thread because I was addressing deaths at a specific school ... a Catholic run school. I haven't once attacked Catholics.

4. The "apology" you reference has NOT been accepted as an apology by the victims. The Truth and Reconciliation Report, written 6 years after Pope Benedict spoke to delegates, recommends that the church issue a formal apology. It's one of the, iirc, 94 recommendations in the Truth and Reconciliation Report.

5. The Canadian gov has formally apologized AND paid 1.6B to victims.

6. Why are you throwing the Catholic church sex abuse scandal into this discussion? I haven't, nor will I.

7. I've tried to find the Tuam stuff. Every single thing I have found disagrees with your claims. I must assume, in the absence of evidence of your claims about Tuam, what you said is incorrect.

Some of what you've accused me of thinking/feeling in this thread are disgusting. I would never accuse or imply such things about you. You've called me derogatory names. Grow the fuck up. You're an adult. Act like one.

Feel free to have the last word. I. Am. Done.

[Suranis]

I'm just tired of it all. Tired of being insulted and attacked. And heartsick. I think I need a break from all this.

Anyway LMK, I was an ass. Here's some reading on Tuam.

Brian Nugent’s Book "TuamBabies"

https://books.google.ie/books?id=CupVDw ... &q&f=false

Eugene Jordan’s Tuam Mother and Baby Home Historiography analysis.

https://www.academia.edu/44317388/Lesso ... ZIPm8m7kAc

Rory Connor’s account of recent events pertaining to Tuam

https://irishsalem.blogspot.com/2020/10 ... press.html

Enjoy.

[Suranis]

Suranis, you're a disturbed individual.

Uh huh. Interesting you say that since...

2. If you scan down the link you mention, you will find a link to the complete Truth and Reconciliation Report. I'd post a SS if you'd like, but just click the link. Here's the link again: https://www.concordia.ca/library/guides ... -trc-.html

Thank you for using the link that I have posted several times AND linked to the report PDFs. Why you insist that I haven't been reading the report and that I haven't seen it boggles the mind, since I quoted it at you to refute your initial claim of 50,000 deaths, which started this mess. You know, where you and other insisted I was just lying to cover up the CC's abuse, and some people laughed at me for quoting the correct number.

After a large civil discussion and no posts on the topic for a week.

And people wonder why I get pissed off.

3. Yes, I've posted about Catholics more in this thread because I was addressing deaths at a specific school ... a Catholic run school. I haven't once attacked Catholics.

You didn't read what you quoted then and you didn't read your first post.

4. The "apology" you reference has NOT been accepted as an apology by the victims.

Thank you for not reading what I quoted. becasue they did, and they said they got great comfort from it. In addition Catholic communities all over Canada have individually apologized.

The Truth and Reconciliation Report, written 6 years after Pope Benedict spoke to delegates, recommends that the church issue a formal apology. It's one of the, iirc, 94 recommendations in the Truth and Reconciliation Report.

Ya, you're right, its there, bar the word "formal." Bit more to it, but what you said islargely true. Page 234 http://publications.gc.ca/collections/c ... 15-eng.pdf

Calls to action

In order to redress the legacy of residential schools and advance the process of Canadian reconciliation, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission makes the following Calls to Action



Church apologies and reconciliation

58)We call upon the Pope to issue an apology to Survivors, their families, and communi-ties for the Roman Catholic Church’s role in the spiritual, cultural, emotional, physical, and sexual abuse of First Nations, Inuit, and Métis children in Catholic-run residen-tial schools. We call for that apology to be similar to the 2010 apology issued to Irish victims of abuse and to occur within one year of the issuing of this Report and to be delivered by the Pope in Canada.

59)We call upon church parties to the Settlement Agreement to develop ongoing educa-tion strategies to ensure that their respective congregations learn about their church’s role in colonization, the history and legacy of residential schools, and why apologies to former residential school students, their families, and communities were necessary.

60)We call upon leaders of the church parties to the Settlement Agreement and all other faiths, in collaboration with Indigenous spiritual leaders, Survivors, schools of theol-ogy, seminaries, and other religious training centres, to develop and teach curriculum for all student clergy, and all clergy and staff who work in Aboriginal communities, on the need to respect Indigenous spirituality in its own right, the history and legacy of residential schools and the roles of the church parties in that system, the history and legacy of religious conflict in Aboriginal families and communities, and the responsibil-ity that churches have to mitigate such conflicts and prevent spiritual violence.

61)We call upon church parties to the Settlement Agreement, in collaboration with Survivors and representatives of Aboriginal organizations, to establish permanent funding to Aboriginal people for:
i.Community-controlled healing and reconciliation projects.
ii.Community-controlled culture- and language-revitalization projects.
iii.Community-controlled education and relationship-building projects.
iv.Regional dialogues for Indigenous spiritual leaders and youth to discuss Indigenous spirituality, self-determination, and reconciliation.

Can you please admit that I know where the report is, and that I can actually read it now? I wasn't pretending. You posting that link over and over, and insisting that I just cant have REALLY seen the report when I posted parts of it is infuriating. I'm not compleatly stupid, I know condensation when I see it.

As for what I said, you avoiding stuff I talked about and insisting I'm making stuff up, and that the report HAD to be saying something different than it did, and the resistance to some deaths being caused by stuff other than abuse, said to me that you had some internal reason to want the abuse to be even worse than it was. I'm not going to speculate any more on that.

Have a photo from a disturbed person.

tree.jpg (227.69 KiB) Viewed 3380 times

[Patagoniagirl]

Oh grow up. I apologized for getting angry and exploding, but I explained why I did so. I don't apologies for reading LMK's links and reporting what was there. Why I should apologies for taking what she said seriously enough to read it in full is anyone's guess.

You could just say "Ok fair enough, the quote LMK used was bogus, but I still think there was an unacceptable level of abuse and death in the schools and ripping kids away from their parents was completely wrong" and I would say "I agree."

Another nasty, self-absorbed comment. And you wonder why you get "attacked on FB and other forums.

Edit: I'll stop now and put you on ignore. Again.

[sugar magnolia]

It must be a language barrier. That's the only thing I can think of.

[Suranis]

So. There I was yesterday, basically thinking "well, they have done it, they have driven me off with their crap. For all I know they were deliberately pushing my buttons to get rid of me. Why else would LMK be consistantly putting up a link that I had already quoted from? She knew it would drive me nuts. I'll probably never post on the Fogbow again."

So I go out and I look at the paper in passing to discover something

while I wasnt paying attention to Irish News, there had been a report on the Mother and Baby homes (such as Tuam) that more or less said that while there had been problems, the Mother and Baby homes were not that bad, and the women had been treated reasonably well concidering the resources that the Nuns had been given.

And the result was that the media and politicians had gone nuts. They had been called on to appear before a Parliamentary committee, which no other authors of a report had ever been called to do. The Times was talking about having the authors of the report FACE THE SURVIVORS!!! which ditto. Politicians were calling for this CONTROVERSIAL DOCUMENT!! to be repudiated by Parmiment!!

Justice Yvonne Murphy, the head of the committee sent a letter to the Goverment explaining wht they refused to attend the Dail Comittee. Here it is.

Full letter sent to Oireachtas by former members of Mother and Baby Homes Commission
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social- ... -1.4590705

In the print version of the Irish times, however, they did NOT print the letter, they printed a Commentary ON the letter and the report, which had stuff like they should face the survivors. Here it is

Murphy hits back hard at critics over mother and baby home report
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland ... -1.4591058

As you can see, it had 2 columns of text before it even quoted Murphy. The rest is outrage about the report. I'll comment on 2 critisisms.

The commentor said the report said that the Women were not subjected to work that they would not have been put onto at home, and how can that be when one survivor had said they were lined up every day and told to gut the grass with a sissors. It sounds horrible.. but this was a time when women would be on their hands and knees scrubbing floors and cooking and washing clothes by hand./ And if you had 10 or 20 women on a lawn it wouldn't not have taken that long, AND if they were doing it every day there would not be a massive amount to cut anyway. And. of course, this was an era before Lawnmowers were commonplace. I would have used a here clippers and not scissors but... it wasn't exactly massively hard work.

The other thing is saying the Report was full of mistakes as one woman said her testimony had been used as an example and the report said that she was Catholic, when she was Protestant. Therefore the whole thing was suspect!! But if you think about it, how did she know that was her. the people were Anonymised in the report, so it could have been another woman who had a similar story, but was Catholic. So.. its a bad example to give for inaccuracies in the report.

Anyway, the point is, it struck me as Ironic that the same time as people here are demonising me for actually reading a report and saying it was not that bad, the Irish Government, Irish politicians and Irish media are doing the same thing to authors of an official report that took 3 years to compile, for the sin of saying... THAT THEY WERE NOT THAT BAD!! Especially since the people who did the report had done the "right sort " of report before, with lots of juicy Clerical Abuse to tut tut about.

So, the message is clear. Historians, you better accuse those fucking Nuns of horror, or get fucked by the people who really run Ireland.

Anyway. Links to the Irish times articles about this that I read on Saturday

Mother and baby homes testimony may be examined by independent expert
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social- ... -1.4591157

Mother and baby homes commission accused of ‘disrespect’
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland ... -1.4591094

Refusal of mother and baby home report authors to face Oireachtas ‘deeply regrettable’ – Varadkar
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social- ... -1.4590681

Search for articles on the Mother and Baby homes, so you can read more if you want.

https://www.irishtimes.com/search/searc ... baby+homes

[Suranis]

Oh here is a link to the report itself.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/d4b3d ... aby-homes/

I was talking about this to a 70 year old Trinity liberal friend of mine earlier, and she said that years ago, she had been onto the nuns who ran the Magdalene Laundries looking for information on her Grandmother and where she came from. The Nun on the phone got really upset when she heard what she wanted, as the Nun assumed that My Friend was on a fishing expedition to or accuse them of horrible stuff and she was sick of it. My Friend calmed her down, and told that her Grandmother was perfectly happy in the Laundries and had nothing but good things to say about the Nuns. She was just trying to find out where her grandmother came from originally. So the Nuns rang her back later apologising as they did not keep records back that far, the 1920s.

She also said the Nuns were good people trying to do the best they could under tough circumstances. She had heard stories about them having to deal with Fathers, who were the ones who got their daughters pregnant in the first place, trying to get their Daughters back and the Nuns trying to help them while having their hands tied by the people who owned the Homes, namely the Government.

It was interesting to hear her perspective on that, to put it mildly.

[Estiveo]

Estiveoshot_20210613_121627.jpg

[sugar magnolia]

Mansplaining about women hand-cutting grass while on their knees being "not so bad" is just the type of unadulterated bullshit I come to the fogbow for.

[Maybenaut]

Mansplaining about women hand-cutting grass while on their knees being "not so bad" is just the type of unadulterated bullshit I come to the fogbow for.

Even the US military recognizes that making someone get in their hands and knees and cut the grass with scissors is punitive. I can’t find the case right now but the appellate court gave a guy extra credit against his sentence because his commander made him do that while he was restricted to base before his court-martial.

[much ado]

For some reason this reminds me of a poem that I read posted on an AC Transit bus maybe 25 years ago. It stuck with me and wasn't very hard to find online...

"Paper matches" by Paulette Jiles

My aunts washed dishes while the uncles
squirted each other on the lawn with
garden hoses. Why are we in here,
I said, and they are out there?
That’s the way it is,
said Aunt Hetty, the shriveled-up one.
I have the rages that small animals have,
being small, being animal.
Written on me was a message,
“At Your Service,”
like a book of paper matches.
One by one we were taken out
and struck.
We come bearing supper,
our heads on fire.

http://haleydivis.blogspot.com/2015/11/ ... jiles.html

[Suranis]

I knew I shouldn't have given any opinion on the attacks on the report. it just let you focus on one sentence that can generate maximum "outrage" and dismiss the rest without having to deal with it - such as the fact an official Goverment report said the Mother and baby homes were not horrifically bad.

Not to mention that I just have the commentators word whether the scissors lawn thing was even mentioned. No, they would never just make something up to attack something from the report in order to discredit it, what was I thinking.

"You can't deny you said that..."

Nope. And you are allowed to disagree with me. I also said other stuff, and another specific criticism of what the commentator said. Do you disagree with those? Or even have an opinion?

[Suranis]

While I was trying to find a mention of the sizzors thing, I found this review of the contents of the report from the London Review of Books. Its pretty sad reading, to put it mildly. What a mess.

https://lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n10/cla ... ontainment

[LM K]

So. There I was yesterday, basically thinking "well, they have done it, they have driven me off with their crap. For all I know they were deliberately pushing my buttons to get rid of me. Why else would LMK be consistantly putting up a link that I had already quoted from? She knew it would drive me nuts. I'll probably never post on the Fogbow again."

Sur. I'm sorry you think I'm so Machiavellian. Under the most normal of circumstances, I'm not Machiavellian. I'm not living in normal circumstances. Between disabling migraines and mourning the death of my father and pet, I'm not capable of such planning. Even if I wanted to. Which I don't.

Just writing that paragraph made me cry. I just spent the last 30 mins trying to figure out wtf the DMV wants so my mom can remove my deceased father from the car title.

I would be interested and frankly, excited, to speak with an Irish Catholic about the Irish mother and baby homes. But this past week has taught me that you are not the Catholic to discuss such matters with. I'm not being insulting. You and I just aren't a good match for such discussions.

Your rancor is exhausting. Think what you will. I'm beyond caring.

My request? Just leave me alone. Stop referring to me in discussions. Please. I'm so tired.

[Suranis]

I'm sorry for your losses. I didn't know that had happened. Losing a parent and a Pet are pretty much as bad as one another. I hope you get some rest, and some peace.

I think you should think about getting off the internet for a few days apart from communicating with friends and supports. You don't need the extra stress.

[Patagoniagirl]

I'm pissed that some here are allowed to be so vitriolic and attack. I know that Sur thinks he is right that the established and proven facts about abuse by catholic establishments were "not so bad" and besides other religious groups did it. That isn't an excuse to attack other members here and name call.

He is beating a dead horse with a cat-o-nine tails and swinging at.anyone who disagrees. If he can't control himself, someone should do it for him.

I'd like to have a discussion about colonization in northern America.

[LM K]

I'm pissed that some here are allowed to be so vitriolic and attack. I know that Sur thinks he is right that the established and proven facts about abuse by catholic establishments were "not so bad" and besides other religious groups did it. That isn't an excuse to attack other members here and name call.

He is beating a dead horse with a cat-o-nine tails and swinging at.anyone who disagrees. If he can't control himself, someone should do it for him.

I'd like to have a discussion about colonization in northern America.

Ya, we should get back on topic. A new topic thread should be started for mother and baby homes for those whom wish to discuss that.

[Suranis]

I'm not responding to that baiting anymore. I'm done. If you want to torment someone into getting themselves banned then pick someone in your own timezone. It's 5:30 AM and I've lost enough sleep over enough days over this.

https://nctr.ca/records/reports/

Read.

[Patagoniagirl]

I'm sorry LMK. You tried to calm it down several times, only to be attacked again. This has gone completely off the rails. This topic should be deleted and a new one started.

[Lani]

I'm sorry LMK. You tried to calm it down several times, only to be attacked again. This has gone completely off the rails. This topic should be deleted and a new one started.

There's nothing wrong about this topic. It's just reality. I've researched how my paternal family wound up in "the colony" and also the shipping of females (of all ages) to Australia. From my Virginia side, I learned about Black children who were treated differently, taken into a white ancestor's home, received schooling, and learned how to be a "good servant." Because a family member was apparently the father...

I met with one person I first knew when I was a very young child. When I was in my 20's, we spoke again, and he told me the whole story. I also found wills back to the mid-1600's that provided for "other" heirs who were not English, aka white.

Acknowledging the historic mistreatment of families and their children and the evil of eugenics, racism, and misogamy are worth discussion even if some people are unsettled about it.

[Patagoniagirl]

Lani, I meant some of the posts - I wasnt clear at all, was I?

[Lani]

Lani, I meant some of the posts - I wasnt clear at all, was I?

Oh, some posts! I thought you meant this thread.