Fogbow

John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:12 pm

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:56 pm New York grand jury returns criminal indictments against Trump’s company and its CFO, the first from prosecutors probing the former president’s business dealings

NEW YORK — A grand jury in Manhattan filed criminal indictments Wednesday against former president Donald Trump's company and its longtime chief financial officer, according to two people familiar with the indictments.

The indictments against the Trump Organization and its CFO, Allen Weisselberg, will remain sealed until Thursday afternoon, leaving the specific charges against them unclear. Earlier Wednesday, people familiar with the case said the charges were related to allegations of unpaid taxes on benefits for Trump Organization executives.

Weisselberg is expected to surrender Thursday morning at the office of Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus R. Vance Jr. (D), two people familiar with the plan said. He is expected to be arraigned later in the day in front of a state court judge. The Trump Organization will also be arraigned, represented in court by one of its attorneys.

The criminal charges against the Trump Organization and Weisselberg are the first to result from the investigations by Vance and New York Attorney General Letitia James (D) and represent a dramatic turn in the long-running probes.

Attorneys for both the Trump Organization and Weisselberg declined to comment Wednesday.

Spokespeople for Vance and James — who teamed up to investigate Trump’s business dealings this year after years of working on separate tracks — also declined to comment.

Vance did not respond to a question from a reporter as he left his office Wednesday afternoon. The people familiar with the indictments spoke on the condition of anonymity to disclose private actions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Meh, so what? It's not like there's going to be anything of consequence happen from these charges.

If convicted Trump nor his company will ever get another bank loan. Seeing as he has half a billion in debt coming due in the next 18 months, that pretty much means you'll be able to buy Trump Tower at a Sherriff's Auction soon. Mar-A-Lago...sold to the highest bidder (ha might be able to live there as an employee, but he cannot take advantage of Florida's generous Homestead Exemption to keep it in bankruptcy because its a business, not a residence) Gold Courses in the UK, you can probably get for a song because they're all money pits.

He might not go to jail, but these cases are a very big deal to the business.

Gregg wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:30 pm

If convicted Trump nor his company will ever get another bank loan.

[citation needed]

Dude has been farking banks for 4 decades. There's idiots in loan offices like there's idiots in every walk of life.

John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:34 pm

Gregg wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:30 pm

If convicted Trump nor his company will ever get another bank loan.

[citation needed]

Dude has been farking banks for 4 decades. There's idiots in loan offices like there's idiots in every walk of life.

Yeah, except those banks answer to Boards of Directors. Lending money to a company convicted of being a corrupt enterprise 1) tends to result in your company being investigated and 2) tends to piss off your Board.

fierceredpanda wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:40 pm

John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:34 pm

Gregg wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:30 pm

If convicted Trump nor his company will ever get another bank loan.

[citation needed]

Dude has been farking banks for 4 decades. There's idiots in loan offices like there's idiots in every walk of life.

Yeah, except those banks answer to Boards of Directors. Lending money to a company convicted of being a corrupt enterprise 1) tends to result in your company being investigated and 2) tends to piss off your Board.

Hasn't bothered banks before, the orange idiot gets sued more times a years than the sun comes up. That some pipsqueek DA indicts a CFO is going to matter? Naw, mutt will find loan money, sleezeballs at his level don't play by the same rules as humans.

fierceredpanda wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:40 pm

John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:34 pm

Gregg wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:30 pm

If convicted Trump nor his company will ever get another bank loan.

[citation needed]

Dude has been farking banks for 4 decades. There's idiots in loan offices like there's idiots in every walk of life.

Yeah, except those banks answer to Boards of Directors. Lending money to a company convicted of being a corrupt enterprise 1) tends to result in your company being investigated and 2) tends to piss off your Board.

It's also against the law, but I digress.

The reason that Dope Dispensaries don't have bank accounts (except within the purview of the Denver FRB which wrote a rule allowing it) is because banks cannot do business knowingly with a criminal enterprise, and as Marijuana is Federally illegal to sell, no bank will take the risk of losing their charter over a dope shop. Same thing when its a billion dollar real estate empire, as soon a Judge/Jury finds its a criminal enterprise, no bank will allow any new business with it, and its a pretty good bet the ones it has accounts with already will close them. Forget paying off the loans, Trump will need to quick writing checks and have to use money orders .

Just ask anyone who worked at Arthur Anderson. Yeah, the big blow was once they were a criminal firm no other business could use their accounting services, but their banks advised them they had X time to make other arrangements and doing so was a big problem for them. Their final expenses were paid, more or less, with traveler's checks.

John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:53 pm Hasn't bothered banks before, the orange idiot gets sued more times a years than the sun comes up. That some pipsqueek DA indicts a CFO is going to matter? Naw, mutt will find loan money, sleezeballs at his level don't play by the same rules as humans.

You do understand that there's a huge difference between being sued and the company itself being charged criminally, right? Corporate bylaws at banks usually forbid them from doing business with companies that are charged with these sorts of offenses, not to mention that it is frequently, as Gregg noted, illegal for them to do so.

But don't let my law degree get in the way of your opining.

JPC had a great post about the bank ramifications of this indictment, on the same track as what you said, Gregg.

And this

With the length of the indictment the long form bc wil match nicely

In banking, knowing your customer is a criminal is just flat illegal, even more so if its a corporation because its not often a company faces and is convicted of criminal charges. Anyhow, if you know a customer is a criminal, you have to assume they're using your bank in furtherance of money laundering criminal proceeds.

IANAL but before I worked for the motorcar company I worked for both the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland and The Bank of England, which, being outside the USA obviously doesn't have the same laws and I was just an intern but I'm pretty sure they frown on money laundering too.

Hell, if you've ever been convicted of a financial crime as a private individual, you're gonna have trouble opening a checking account.

Enron's final checks as well as AA's were counter drafts, which means they were issued when the bank was presented with cash and a statement that the cash was deposited under orders of a bankruptcy judge.

Since most people are not criminals, don't know any companies that are criminals and don't know the inner workings of the Federal Reserve Regulations for obscure banking practices, I wouldn't expect many people to know most of this. But a company with a criminal conviction is doomed, oe way or another.

Trump is probably too stupid to know this, even though I'm sure the last week has involved him being told over and over again how bad this is. He, like posters here and other places I've seen, think they've gotten over banks for years and they'll figure this out.

I would think this is like Nicky Santaro in Casino being told he's in the "Black Book". Ace is trying to tell him he can't even come in the parking lot, and Nicky is "so, what if I want a sandwich in the restaurant next to the casino?. Trump is asking all kinds of "what if" questions and the lawyers are telling him different iterations of "you are well and truly screwed".

If one wishes to go down the TLA (three letter acronym) route the relevant three immediate TLA's are

KYC. Know Your Customer
KYB. Know Your Business
AML. Anti Money Laundering

Oh and if a regulator or federal agency of law wants to really egg the pudding, the favorite Birfoon 4 letter acronym,...... REEEEEEEKO.....

Regulated financial institutions are required under a wide selection of laws and regulations to know AND REPORT on any material change in existing business relationships where the checklists around KYC KYB and AML throw up a red flag.

For new relationships and that includes new arrangements with existing clients, the due diligence checks around the trifecta of fun also need to be run, recorded and reported as per requirement.

Now a financial institutions Risk Appetite Statement may allow for specific terms and conditions variation for risky loans (risk of failure to repay etc) but in general NOT for anything that can and will expose the executive leadership and the board to regulatory sanction. When lower level employees skirt these checks you end up with massive fines, enhanced supervision and folks, upto and including CEO level, getting the cardboard box walk... See HSBC and others passim.

So, YES a bank or the like COULD loan money, renogotiate terms etc to an individual or organisation that fails to pass due diligence checks but the board would have to sign off and also have potential personal liability exposure.

I would also not be at all surprised if the Orange ShitGibbons orgs would trip up on the Peps and Sanctions check as well.....

Interesting times ahead if one has a more than passing interest on Compliance and the like...

Seems there will soon be some great investments opportunities for Russian oligarchs (aka criminals).

Trivia. The UK has regulatory laws much like the USA but it’s exceptional for them to interfere with doing lucrative business regardless of who the customer is.

Charges to be unsealed at 2PM at arraignment. 11AM my time.

I haven't seen any coverage on Fox at all. This morning all I've seen is crying over no fireworks at Mt Rushmore and that mean Biden admin making it political.

The Trump Organization’s longtime chief financial officer has surrendered to authorities in New York, facing tax-related charges in the most direct attack on Donald Trump and his business to emerge from Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr.’s years-long criminal probe.

Allen Weisselberg, 73, went through a freight entrance to avoid cameras awaiting his arrival in lower Manhattan Thursday, one day after a grand jury indicted him and the company in an extraordinary challenge to the former president.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/07/01/ ... newsletter

Jennifer Weisselberg being interviewed by Jeffrey Toobin on CNN is gross beyond belief.

Uninformed wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:06 am Seems there will soon be some great investments opportunities for Russian oligarchs (aka criminals).

Yeah, I am expecting oligarchs and sovereign wealth funds will be his next line of credit, esp if he is 'friendly' to their interests in his public statements.

Trump Organization says chief financial officer is being used "as a pawn" for politics
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... -07-01-21/

From CNN’s Kara Scannell

The Trump Organization released a statement Thursday saying that its chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, is being used by Manhattan prosecutors “as a pawn” for politics.

“The District Attorney is bringing a criminal prosecution involving employee benefits that neither the IRS nor any other District Attorney would ever think of bringing. This is not justice; this is politics," the statement, attributed to a spokesperson from the Trump Organization, said.

Indictments charging the Trump Organization and its chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, are expected to be unsealed around 2 p.m. ET Thursday, two sources familiar with the matter tell CNN.

Weisselberg surrendered to the Manhattan district attorney’s office Thursday morning ahead of expected criminal charges against him and the company in connection with alleged tax crimes, his attorney tells CNN.

Read the full Trump Organization statement below:

"Allen Weisselberg is a loving and devoted husband, father and grandfather who has worked at the Trump Organization for 48 years. He is now being used by the Manhattan District Attorney as a pawn in a scorched earth attempt to harm the former President. The District Attorney is bringing a criminal prosecution involving employee benefits that neither the IRS nor any other District Attorney would ever think of bringing. This is not justice; this is politics," spokesperson for The Trump Organization.

fierceredpanda wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:26 pm

John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:53 pm Hasn't bothered banks before, the orange idiot gets sued more times a years than the sun comes up. That some pipsqueek DA indicts a CFO is going to matter? Naw, mutt will find loan money, sleezeballs at his level don't play by the same rules as humans.

You do understand that there's a huge difference between being sued and the company itself being charged criminally, right? Corporate bylaws at banks usually forbid them from doing business with companies that are charged with these sorts of offenses, not to mention that it is frequently, as Gregg noted, illegal for them to do so.

But don't let my law degree get in the way of your opining.

I have no doubt you know more about the law than I do. Which has nothing to do with this idiot's ability to con banks out of money, which he's exhibited for over 40 years.

John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:25 am

fierceredpanda wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:26 pm

John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:53 pm Hasn't bothered banks before, the orange idiot gets sued more times a years than the sun comes up. That some pipsqueek DA indicts a CFO is going to matter? Naw, mutt will find loan money, sleezeballs at his level don't play by the same rules as humans.

You do understand that there's a huge difference between being sued and the company itself being charged criminally, right? Corporate bylaws at banks usually forbid them from doing business with companies that are charged with these sorts of offenses, not to mention that it is frequently, as Gregg noted, illegal for them to do so.

But don't let my law degree get in the way of your opining.

I have no doubt you know more about the law than I do. Which has nothing to do with this idiot's ability to con banks out of money, which he's exhibited for over 40 years.

So let's say everything comes true and all the loans for Trump Org come due with no way to roll them over, since no one will do business with a criminal enterprise. What's to keep tfg from just declaring bankruptcy (again, and again again) and starting over with a new, fresh, Trump Org v5.0 or whatever bankruptcy he's up to now? Is there a law against a criminal org declaring bankruptcy?

Jeffrey Toobin is involved in the latter part of the interview

Do I have the timing right? One hour from now?

It's like when a currier is speeding while carrying 10 kilos of meth. He gets stopped for speeding and then gets busted for drugs. Had trump just laid low and not gotten into politics it would be business as usual for him today. Now we know what he was hiding when he steadfastly refused to release his income tax information.

covfefe wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:36 am

John Thomas8 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:25 am

fierceredpanda wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:26 pm

You do understand that there's a huge difference between being sued and the company itself being charged criminally, right? Corporate bylaws at banks usually forbid them from doing business with companies that are charged with these sorts of offenses, not to mention that it is frequently, as Gregg noted, illegal for them to do so.

But don't let my law degree get in the way of your opining.

I have no doubt you know more about the law than I do. Which has nothing to do with this idiot's ability to con banks out of money, which he's exhibited for over 40 years.

So let's say everything comes true and all the loans for Trump Org come due with no way to roll them over, since no one will do business with a criminal enterprise. What's to keep tfg from just declaring bankruptcy (again, and again again) and starting over with a new, fresh, Trump Org v5.0 or whatever bankruptcy he's up to now? Is there a law against a criminal org declaring bankruptcy?

The only bankruptcy available to him after a conviction would be a Chapter 7 liquidation, and I'd bet my last dollar he doesn't have enough assets selling under duress to pay off his loans. You don't get protection under Chapter 11 to re-organize a criminal enterprise.