Fogbow

RTH10260 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:07 pm i always wonder how the food industry think a vegan knows how meat tastes when they don't consume it, and construct a product with the look-and-feel (and near taste) of an animal origin item. Why not just outright make a product that tastes as "vegan" unrelated to meaty stuff, and try to present it in a visual appealing form rather than mimiking a cut of an animal. Even "sausage" aka stuffed in a long form can be presented without suggesting it is a animal derivate.

Many vegans became vegans as adults . Those vegans know how meat and other animal based foods taste.

Volkonski wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:11 pm

RTH10260 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:07 pm i always wonder how the food industry think a vegan knows how meat tastes when they don't consume it, and construct a product with the look-and-feel (and near taste) of an animal origin item. Why not just outright make a product that tastes as "vegan" unrelated to meaty stuff, and try to present it in a visual appealing form rather than mimiking a cut of an animal. Even "sausage" aka stuffed in a long form can be presented without suggesting it is a animal derivate.

Many vegans became vegans as adults . Those vegans know how meat and other animal based foods taste.

I understand it as a transition diet, but once they part from meat, do they want to continuously be reminded of their former diet?

RTH10260 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:17 pm

Volkonski wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:11 pm

RTH10260 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:07 pm i always wonder how the food industry think a vegan knows how meat tastes when they don't consume it, and construct a product with the look-and-feel (and near taste) of an animal origin item. Why not just outright make a product that tastes as "vegan" unrelated to meaty stuff, and try to present it in a visual appealing form rather than mimiking a cut of an animal. Even "sausage" aka stuffed in a long form can be presented without suggesting it is a animal derivate.

Many vegans became vegans as adults . Those vegans know how meat and other animal based foods taste.

I understand it as a transition diet, but once they part from meat, do they want to continuously be reminded of their former diet?

Our vegan SIL and vegetarian daughter seem to. They make many of the dishes they used to prepare with meat using meat substitutes.

My SIL is vegan. He started out vegetarian, then went vegan. He has not had meat since he was 13, and he's now 42. He probably doesn't remember what meat tastes like. His older brother went the same route, but he got tired of the difficulty of trying to eat vegan all the time. He went back to vegetarian and then went back to carnivore, although he doesn't eat a lot of meat.

When my daughter married, they had their wedding and reception at a vegetarian/vegan restaurant. They had mostly vegetarian food, but prepared vegan meals for about three people. The food was excellent. They ordered a vegan wedding cake, and it was absolutely delicious.

(My SIL is agnostic, at best, so they got a Quaker marriage license. They wrote their own vows, said them in front of everyone, and his mother and I signed the certificate.)

My dietician told me that impossible burger or beyond meat is no better or worse, from her perspective, as the real thing.

I’m not vegan, but I can’t eat mammalian meat. I like an impossible burger every now and then, just to feel like a normal person. I don’t have them often, but when I need fast food, Burger King’s Impossible Burger is actually pretty good.

Beyond meat: It tastes OK, but the aftertaste is yucky.

neonzx wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:28 pm I think these imitation "meat" products are just a fad. Sure, they don't have the fat amounts, but the sodium content is crazy high. If being more healthy is the goal, these products are not it.

Sadly, it can happen to foods that somebody really needs to use, not just out of a choice. I had found a gluten-free snack that was really good (I don't need to but still thought a good snack that is gluten-free can be a good thing). Then I looked at the sodium content.

Ohhhhh,

Now, the chips from Food Should Taste Good do not help you with calories or fats (though sodium is lower) but they manage to do gluten-free, vegan, kosher, etc. and taste good.

re "(I don't need to but still thought a good snack that is gluten-free can be a good thing)"

Gluten is nothing bad. It just happens so that a certain small portion of humans are intolerant to digesting this compound. It's one of these fads, that suddenly had taken off several years ago, that everyone ought to avoid gluten. I especially go when marketing in the food industry goes bonkers and advertises "no gluten" for products that naturally never contain gluten. Processed non-gluten food that does not contain wheat (the main origin of gluten) as ingredient remains non-gluten. The only positive side effect of this fad is that the gluten intolerant folks get a larger variety of guaranteed gluten free prepared articles.

I like pickle juice. I use it in beef stew. I put minced pickles in meatloaf. It's a must in potato salad instead of.vinegar. not the sweet ones, the garlic dill.
My fav is a German dish. Very thinly sliced top sirloin slalthered with minced onions, slices of bacon, rolled up,browned and then covered with a cup of pickle juice and a cup of water. Simmer for an hour and a half. Remove the rouladen (meat rolls), Thickn sauce with cornstarch.

*Do not make and serve to children of you do not want kids who grow to six foot seven.

Patagoniagirl wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:28 pm I like pickle juice. I use it in beef stew. I put minced pickles in meatloaf. It's a must in potato salad instead of.vinegar. not the sweet ones, the garlic dill.
My fav is a German dish. Very thinly sliced top sirloin slalthered with minced onions, slices of bacon, rolled up,browned and then covered with a cup of pickle juice and a cup of water. Simmer for an hour and a half. Remove the rouladen (meat rolls), Thickn sauce with cornstarch.

*Do not make and serve to children of you do not want kids who grow to six foot seven.

You will have to come to Pittsburgh in August for Picklesburgh. It's all things imaginable with pickles. (This is the home of Heinz 57, which included a lot of pickles.)

RTH10260 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:07 pm i always wonder how the food industry think a vegan knows how meat tastes when they don't consume it, and construct a product with the look-and-feel (and near taste) of an animal origin item. Why not just outright make a product that tastes as "vegan" unrelated to meaty stuff, and try to present it in a visual appealing form rather than mimiking a cut of an animal. Even "sausage" aka stuffed in a long form can be presented without suggesting it is a animal derivate.

I don't think they are targeting vegetarians nor vegans with these products.

When I was a vegetarian, I picked up a bag of potato chips that were "pizza flavored" -- sounds good right? When I tried one chip at home, I immediately knew something was wrong *gag*. I turned the bag over and read the ingredients list ("BACON FAT"). People who do not eat meat can taste the animal fat -- crazy right? --- I threw the rest of the bag in the trash.

p.s. I could never be vegan because cheese... I'm weak.

Mmmmm. Bacon Fat. We used to put that in pancake batter. Yum.

neonzx wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:17 pm

RTH10260 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:07 pm i always wonder how the food industry think a vegan knows how meat tastes when they don't consume it, and construct a product with the look-and-feel (and near taste) of an animal origin item. Why not just outright make a product that tastes as "vegan" unrelated to meaty stuff, and try to present it in a visual appealing form rather than mimiking a cut of an animal. Even "sausage" aka stuffed in a long form can be presented without suggesting it is a animal derivate.

I don't think they are targeting vegetarians nor vegans with these products.

When I was a vegetarian, I picked up a bag of potato chips that were "pizza flavored" -- sounds good right? When I tried one chip at home, I immediately knew something was wrong *gag*. I turned the bag over and read the ingredients list ("BACON FAT"). People who do not eat meat can taste the animal fat -- crazy right? --- I threw the rest of the bag in the trash.

p.s. I could never be vegan because cheese... I'm weak.

Same here. If you need a good source of vegetarian cheeses, try Murray's Cheese in New York. They ship. Some of the vegetarian cheeses I have ordered from them are nothing short of divine.

I rarely eat bacon anymore, although I happen to have a pound of it in my fridge at the moment. One thing that I loved growing up was something we called "lardy bread." It was generally a picnic food for us, usually at my aunt's who did the Independence Day dinner at her place, so not an everyday thing. You take a big chunk of lard, roast it over an open fire, and then dribble the melting fat over a thick slice of bread. Heaven!

I can't remember the Hungarian name, but we had something similar in Hungary years later. My husband had refused to try the lardy bread at my aunt's. He regretted it after he had it in Hungary.

northland10 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:16 am Mmmmm. Bacon Fat. We used to put that in pancake batter. Yum.

My mother used to fry potatoes in it and put a hunk of it over a baking meatloaf. Delicious? Oh yes. Healthy? OMG no.

One of the times we visited friends in New Mexico, we went to Las Vegas (NM) to a Mexican restaurant. They also sold Mexican desserts to go. We ordered Mexican sugar cookies to take with us. They were incredibly delicious. Their oil ingredient? Lard. Apparently, there are many recipes for these cookies all over NM and Mexico. Probably other places in the Southwest, too.

northland10 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:09 pm I do not suggest a Great Lakes Christmas Ale right after eating a Chipotle burrito with the medium salsa (or probably any spiced food). The ale really becomes boring that way. You lose the flavors.

This is why we have drinks before the meal.

Letting it sit and warm a bit helps. It was also too cold since I have not broken down and gotten a second beer fridge.

So here's the 2 things about Mexican food and drinks:

1) The correct wine to go with Mexican food is beer. You can get away with wine for the more European or South American styles found in Ciudad Mexico, but you do so at your own risk, IMHO.

2) 99% of Mexican beer sold internationally was NOT designed to be drunk as 'beer' - it was designed to be a hygienic alternative to lousy water that didn't need refrigeration to be palatable (though ice them down tends to hide the obnoxious taste). They are specifically designed to be made quickly and cheap for the water replacement market. We are talking 'Sol', 'Corona', 'Tres Equis', and other similar weak as piss 'beers'.

Mexico makes some really good beers, but the mass market beers on the international market are not them. Carta Blanca is good, Dos Equis is good (especially 'Obscura' which is semi-dark) there are others.

northland10 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:16 am Mmmmm. Bacon Fat. We used to put that in pancake batter. Yum.

The only way my grandmother would eat pancakes was to put a quarter inch of sugar on them and then pour the bacon fat over it.

Truthfully it tasted better than Log Cabin syrup (which was mostly corn syrup), but I haven't the faintest idea how she survived to be 87.

filly wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:00 am

northland10 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:16 am Mmmmm. Bacon Fat. We used to put that in pancake batter. Yum.

My mother used to fry potatoes in it and put a hunk of it over a baking meatloaf. Delicious? Oh yes. Healthy? OMG no.

You need to discover duck fat.

AndyinPA wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:10 am One of the times we visited friends in New Mexico, we went to Las Vegas (NM) to a Mexican restaurant. They also sold Mexican desserts to go. We ordered Mexican sugar cookies to take with us. They were incredibly delicious. Their oil ingredient? Lard. Apparently, there are many recipes for these cookies all over NM and Mexico. Probably other places in the Southwest, too.

My mother's go to cookbook was 1934 (I think) edition of the Detroit Times Cookbook. It is full of recipes for cookies and pie dough and stuff with lard.

You just can't find lard in the supermarkets that easily anymore. Imitation lard (like Crisco) replaced it in the market place.

keith wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:39 pm

filly wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:00 am

northland10 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:16 am Mmmmm. Bacon Fat. We used to put that in pancake batter. Yum.

My mother used to fry potatoes in it and put a hunk of it over a baking meatloaf. Delicious? Oh yes. Healthy? OMG no.

You need to discover duck fat.

No

I just got pulled into this thread by the discussion of clams above. I'm mostly meh over clams and most bivalves to be honest. Can't stand mussels or pipis. But I LOVE oysters - natural (especially with a nice lime salsa) or cooked (kilpatrick is my goto fave) makes no difference really. South Australian "Coffin Bay" oysters are gods gift to man.

Anecdote: back when I was working for a multinational systems integrator, I was working on a project in Adelaide. All the out of state contractors were staying in the bayside town of Glenelg. Glenelg was a pretty dead town on Tuesdays so all the local cafe's started a promotion to get people to come down: $10 for a dozen oysters and a beer ($12 for cooked oysters). Cheesus on a handbasket. The oysters were fresh off the (oyster farm) boats from Coffin Bay and numerous pig outs were had by all.

Then somebody mentioned crab too (Lani?). Our local Thai place makes a soft shell crab salad that is to die for. I think that's what I'm gonna go for tonight as a matter of fact.

keith wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:32 pm
1) The correct wine to go with Mexican food is beer. You can get away with wine for the more European or South American styles found in Ciudad Mexico, but you do so at your own risk, IMHO.

2) 99% of Mexican beer sold internationally was NOT designed to be drunk as 'beer' - it was designed to be a hygienic alternative to lousy water that didn't need refrigeration to be palatable (though ice them down tends to hide the obnoxious taste). They are specifically designed to be made quickly and cheap for the water replacement market. We are talking 'Sol', 'Corona', 'Tres Equis', and other similar weak as piss 'beers'.

Mexico makes some really good beers, but the mass market beers on the international market are not them. Carta Blanca is good, Dos Equis is good (especially 'Obscura' which is semi-dark) there are others.

I enjoy Dos Equis Dark. Yum.

keith wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:38 am But I LOVE oysters - natural (especially with a nice lime salsa) or cooked (kilpatrick is my goto fave) makes no difference really. South Australian "Coffin Bay" oysters are gods gift to man.

Oysters are awesome. Just about every little bay in New England has their own variety, which are very different. I once took a culinary “tour” of Cape Cod by one from each of the places offered. Small, intense, briny, buttery, sweet, all the adjectives. A dozen was a good amount.

Then I went to Jackson, MS for a birther case. There’s a guy that goes down to Biloxi every morning and brings back Gulf oysters for the restaurants. Good lord, those suckers were the size of my fist. Whole different animal.

Whatever4 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:43 pm

keith wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:38 am But I LOVE oysters - natural (especially with a nice lime salsa) or cooked (kilpatrick is my goto fave) makes no difference really. South Australian "Coffin Bay" oysters are gods gift to man.

Oysters are awesome. Just about every little bay in New England has their own variety, which are very different. I once took a culinary “tour” of Cape Cod by one from each of the places offered. Small, intense, briny, buttery, sweet, all the adjectives. A dozen was a good amount.

Then I went to Jackson, MS for a birther case. There’s a guy that goes down to Biloxi every morning and brings back Gulf oysters for the restaurants. Good lord, those suckers were the size of my fist. Whole different animal.

Duggan's Seafood.
A national treasure.