Fogbow

jez wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:18 pm Question, again, as usual.

This Federal Judge, Cannon, was appointed by FPOTUS. If she decides that a special master is needed, then what? What if she decides the DOJ filing I'd drivel and not worthy of consideration and only her God-King can make the rules? Is there any recourse for the DOJ?

Worst she can do is appoint the special master, which won't stop the DOJ from prosecuting the thief, IMHO. She can't really order them to stop the investigation, I don't think.

One thing that is bothering me is, someone said that in order to prosecute the former president of the United States you need a super, super strong case because he was the former president. A much stronger case than you would need against an ordinary citizen.

If'n that's true, then it's false that "no one is above the law" in the United States of America, because what that says is that the former president is above the law when it comes to a criminal trial.

I'm reposting these questions that I posted upthread...

bob wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:17 pm

much ado wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:07 pm Okay. I guess I don't really understand why they think that getting a special master to review the materials that the FBI seized is going to help them.

Do they think that the special master will force the FBI to return evidence of a crime to Trump?

Or something?

It is a bit of a word-salad jumble. It sounds like there's the hope:

1. A special master would rule presidential records actually are his, or at least subject to a claim of executive privilege; and/or
2. Delay delay delay (to rally the troops while grifting).

But, really, want they want is a Very Special Master, who is like an unappealable judge and special counsel prosecutor all rolled into one, who can take this case away from the mean ole, obviously corrupt DOJ.

So does the special master just make up the rules they themselves are supposed to follow or does the judge who appoints the special master issue instructions for the special master to follow? Would the DOJ be able to appeal instructions that involve spurious claims of executive privilege or ownership?

I suppose that the special master just lists which materials should be returned to Trump, but the materials remain in custody of the FBI until all the issues are settled and agreed to? Is that right?

They also want the Very Special Master to have access to the unredacted affidavit that shows the witness names.

I guess the question will be, what job description does the special master get from the judge. Does he get to look thru all classified documents to see if the FBI spirited away personal items? But how would he know in what box the FBI was hiding that stuff (potentially, assumed, of course)? Then he gets to review the personal items to check if they contain communications with any personal lawyer, ought to be clean cause the FBI taint team did it already.

I am waiting if the judge has the courage to say "moot", deader than dead,

New Turtle wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:33 pm They also want the Very Special Master to have access to the unredacted affidavit that shows the witness names.

And they want that given to trump as well.

Oh christ yes, let's get a special master who says Trump was writing an autobiography and he needed the documents to make sure it will be accurate (you know how Trump hates any kind of dishonesty) and so they have to give back everything, including what he gave them in January and June.

Please.

New Turtle wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:33 pm They also want the Very Special Master to have access to the unredacted affidavit that shows the witness names.

I would be astonished if he gets that privilege, not required for sifting thru documents.

Foggy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:36 pm Oh christ yes, let's get a special master who says Trump was writing an autobiography and he needed the documents to make sure it will be accurate (you know how Trump hates any kind of dishonesty) and so they have to give back everything, including what he gave them in January and June.

Please.

Precondition: first build a presidential library on the estate of MaL and have it open to the public.

A subsequent tweet said the Judge ruled to keep it under seal.

so did the court shut off wifi or not?

much ado wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:28 pm So does the special master just make up the rules they themselves are supposed to follow or does the judge who appoints the special master issue instructions for the special master to follow?

The special master works for the judge, who would give instructions on the scope of the work. It would be unsurprising if the parties had some sort recourse before the judge who appointed the special master.

Would the DOJ be able to appeal instructions that involve spurious claims of executive privilege or ownership?

Probably? It really depends on how much the judge wants to go out on a limb.

A related issue is the 11th Circuit has a majority of judges nominated by this plaintiff in this oddball action.

I suppose that the special master just lists which materials should be returned to Trump, but the materials remain in custody of the FBI until all the issues are settled and agreed to? Is that right?

WHO KNOWS?

The and-a-pony request basically wants the original documents to go to the special master. As everyone is learning, possession is very important, especially for a criminal prosecution where chain of custody always is a lurking issue. I would expect the DOJ to argue that the special master, if appointed, should come to it, inspect the documents in its secure area, and then leave ... without the documents.

I'm a tad bit confused here.
This looks like it was taken at the forensic lab.....

Chilidog wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:44 pm This looks like it was taken at the forensic lab.....

It likely was, so it isn't the best example.

But law enforcement routinely stages arranges seized materials for documentation purposes.

Keith Olbermann is doing a bang-up job covering the Trump document theft scandal on his new Countdown podcast. Definitely worth a listen.

Third tweet says his lawyers compared this to an overdue library book.

Dr. Ken wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:52 pm

Just beat me to it.

Chilidog wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:44 pm I'm a tad bit confused here.
This looks like it was taken at the forensic lab.....

check here https://reason.com/2019/04/04/brave-cop ... and-dough/

bob wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:44 pm [...]

I suppose that the special master just lists which materials should be returned to Trump, but the materials remain in custody of the FBI until all the issues are settled and agreed to? Is that right?

WHO KNOWS?

The and-a-pony request basically wants the original documents to go to the special master. As everyone is learning, possession is very important, especially for a criminal prosecution where chain of custody always is a lurking issue. I would expect the DOJ to argue that the special master, if appointed, should come to it, inspect the documents in its secure area, and then leave ... without the documents.

But many of the documents are top secret/SCI and they would have to be examined by a special master who has the appropriate security clearance in a secure location where these documents can be viewed. This argues very strongly that any special master would need to go to the FBI location. But the FBI has already reviewed all the documents. So if the judge appoints a special master of her own, she is essentially saying that she does not trust the FBI to have done its job.

What a can of worms.

She may not have ordered the DOJ to stop any review because the DOJ said it already completed the review. Just a guess.

Trump lawyers say special master will give the American people more confidence in the process ...

Yes, it's all about what the American people think, not what the law is, your honor. There's an election coming ... and Trump appointed you, so don't let him down ...

Foggy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:01 pm

Trump lawyers say special master will give the American people more confidence in the process ...

Yes, it's all about what the American people think, not what the law is, your honor. There's an election coming ... and Trump appointed you, so don't let him down ...

Trump being indicted will give the American people more confidence in the process

Foggy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:01 pm

Trump lawyers say special master will give the American people more confidence in the process ...

Yes, it's all about what the American people think, not what the law is, your honor. There's an election coming ... and Trump appointed you, so don't let him down ...

But we can't release a more detailed list of the seized documents because that would give the American people LESS confidence that Trump is not a crook.