MN-Skeptic wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:41 pm
I figure if you hear an east European language being spoken here in the U.S., look first to see which group settled in that area. In the area in Wisconsin where I grew up there were Norwegians, Germans, and Polish folks. Where my husband grew up in NE Iowa, there were many people with Czech ancestors along with a minority of Germans.
That works well in a lot of the rural Midwest (or even Texas where my grandparents spoke Czech), but breaks down in large cities where there has been significant immigration in recent decades, e.g. NYC, LA, SF, and even Seattle.
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:09 pm
by Kriselda Gray
jcolvin2 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:28 pm
Czech, Slovak and Polish are part of the Western Slavic language group. My wife lived in Slovakia for a year or two, and went to Poland at one point to see a U2 show. She says that conventional wisdom there was that Czechs and Slovaks did a passable job understanding Polish, but the Poles seemed to have more trouble understanding Czech or Slovak. I'm not sure if this was a Polish joke or whether there might be other explanations (e.g. Czechia and Slovakia being much smaller countries population-wise and having to interact somewhat more with people who do not speak their language).
I don't think it's a Polish joke - I've heard of similar situations between some of the Scandinavian languages. I can't remember who understands who, exactly, but I know I've read that speakers of Language A and B can generally understand Language C pretty well, but Language C doesn't give the same facility for understanding A or B. it doesn't seem to make sense, but apparently it's not a unique phenomenon.
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:58 pm
by AndyinPA
Off Topic
On a trip once to Norway and Denmark, we had a tour manager who was Swedish. She was married to a Dane and lived in Copenhagen while mostly working in Norway. She obviously could speak Swedish and Danish, but in spite of working in Norway, she had a difficult time with Norwegian. Maybe that was it.
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:25 am
by Kriselda Gray
Off Topic
AndyinPA wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:58 pmOn a trip once to Norway and Denmark, we had a tour manager who was Swedish. She was married to a Dane and lived in Copenhagen while mostly working in Norway. She obviously could speak Swedish and Danish, but in spite of working in Norway, she had a difficult time with Norwegian. Maybe that was it.
Could be - it was just something I came across when I first started trying to learn Norwegian (which I'm finally getting back to after about 10 months off.. l )
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:46 pm
by Sam the Centipede
Off Topic
Ja men neiii … eller nejjj
Whisper it quietly but southern (bokmål) Norwegian and Danish are pretty much dialects of one language. Swedish and western (nynorsk) Norwegian aren't far away. If you adjust for Norwegian's rationalized spelling, Norwegian and Danish become very close in print. Norwegian has tone structure though – as does Swedish – whereas Danish muddles through with English-style stresses. Tones carry meaning, for example the words from for "farmer" and "beans" – "bønder" and "bønner" are identical other than the tone, but that is often inaudible to people who haven't gotten up with a final language That said, using wrong things doesn't make a speaker unintelligible.
English is unusual in having no mutually intelligible sister language other than Scots (Ulster Scots and Lowland Scottish Scots), but many international and local dialects (sensu lato). Although perhaps creoles and pidgins might refute that conjecture. It's a debate with not having!
But when taking about mutual intelligibility of languages, the issue of accents is rarely considered. I suspect most people here would struggle to understand a full-on Aberdeen (north-east Scotland) accent, even if every word was used identically to Merriam-Webster. "Fit aboot a bit, lassie?"
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:37 pm
by raison de arizona
Off Topic
Sam the Centipede wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:46 pm
But when taking about mutual intelligibility of languages, the issue of accents is rarely considered. I suspect most people here would struggle to understand a full-on Aberdeen (north-east Scotland) accent, even if every word was used identically to Merriam-Webster. "Fit aboot a bit, lassie?"
My friend in my late teens was Scottish, but he had grown up mostly in Canada and the US. He brought his girlfriend from Scotland to stay with him in the US for the summer. She was constantly asked what her native language was as people struggled to understand her. She spoke English exclusively.
But when taking about mutual intelligibility of languages, the issue of accents is rarely considered. I suspect most people here would struggle to understand a full-on Aberdeen (north-east Scotland) accent, even if every word was used identically to Merriam-Webster. "Fit aboot a bit, lassie?"
I once worked with a Glaswegian who, in his youth played football with his local pub team. He claims that when they would play a pub from 10 miles away nobody could understand each other.
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:24 pm
by pipistrelle
Hmmm. Does the U.S. have this many fires at key suppliers like this in a few days?
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:46 pm
by Gregg
Russia now says 1 crew member died, 27 are missing in the sinking of its warship
Just one. What was his name? The one guy who got killed, since its only one, you surely have a name.
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:38 pm
by johnpcapitalist
Gregg wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:46 pmRussia now says 1 crew member died, 27 are missing in the sinking of its warship
Just one. What was his name? The one guy who got killed, since its only one, you surely have a name.
Putin is just like Trump or L. Ron Hubbard for that matter. These guys are so incompetent that they're not even slinging good bullshit.
If you ever listen to Hubbard's lectures, particularly those he recorded in the early 1960s, you can hear him pause suspiciously as he makes up random crap. But his audience is only True Believers, so they sit there and listen. Check out http://www.tonyortega.org for examples.
But Hubbard, while a penny-ante con man at the core, is still slicker at making up bullshit on the fly than Trump.
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:05 am
by Ben-Prime
Gregg wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:46 pmRussia now says 1 crew member died, 27 are missing in the sinking of its warship
Just one. What was his name? The one guy who got killed, since its only one, you surely have a name.
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:23 am
by Lani
Gregg wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:46 pmRussia now says 1 crew member died, 27 are missing in the sinking of its warship
Just one. What was his name? The one guy who got killed, since its only one, you surely have a name.
More like 200.
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:33 am
by Gregg
I'm sure they told 200 families that their son was the single hero.
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:44 am
by New Turtle
I bet a lot of the surviving crew and their families are on their way to the gulag.
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:52 am
by Volkonski
Hey Rand Paul, Texas was once part of Mexico, Florida was Spanish, Louisiana was French. Should we give those back?
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:59 am
by Kriselda Gray
Volkonski wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:52 am
Hey Rand Paul, Texas was once part of Mexico, Florida was Spanish, Louisiana was French. Should we give those back?
Texas, quite possibly - I think we would do just fine without them...
Florida, can we *pay* Spain to take it back? That'd be a good way to deal with DeSantis
Volkonski wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:52 am
Hey Rand Paul, Texas was once part of Mexico, Florida was Spanish, Louisiana was French. Should we give those back?
Texas, quite possibly - I think we would do just fine without them...
Florida, can we *pay* Spain to take it back? That'd be a good way to deal with DeSantis
Kriselda Gray wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:59 am
Texas, quite possibly - I think we would do just fine without them...
Florida, can we *pay* Spain to take it back? That'd be a good way to deal with DeSantis
If Spain takes us back I might stick around.
Since I was born in FL I guess I'd then be a Spanish citizen? I could move to Barcelona, which would be nice.
Actually, I guess I could live about anywhere in the EU, right? I'm totally down for that. Let's make it happen!
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:33 pm
by Notaperson
I guess we already knew it, but this makes it clear that the U.S. has one or more high level assets in Russia's military. I sure hope Putin sees this.
U.S. intel helped Ukraine protect air defenses, shoot down Russian plane carrying hundreds of troops
As Russia launched its invasion, the U.S. gave Ukrainian forces detailed intelligence about exactly when and where Russian missiles and bombs were intended to strike, prompting Ukraine to move air defenses and aircraft out of harm’s way, current and former U.S. officials told NBC News.
That near real-time intelligence-sharing also paved the way for Ukraine to shoot down a Russian transport plane carrying hundreds of troops in the early days of the war, the officials say, helping repel a Russian assault on a key airport near Kyiv.
Ukraine continues to move air defenses and aircraft nearly every day with the help of American intelligence, which is one reason Russia has not been able to establish air dominance. In some cases, Ukraine moved the targeted air defense systems or planes just in time, the officials said.
“The Russian military has literally been cratering empty fields where air defenses were once set up,” one U.S. official said. “It has had an enormous impact on the Russian military’s ability on the ground.”
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