Roommate Issues, aka Why I Sometimes Dislike Humans

[Jez]

Here we are, 6 or so months later. I'm still in Ohio and survived the basement flood of November 2017. Lost my TV and insurance didn't cover anything because it was a flood. Oh well, dealt with it an moved on. We do have leak issues with the basement. When it warms a bit, and stops raining, we will be sealing the cement floors and walls in the basement. The water table is fairly high here and it's been a wet winter/spring, which doesn't help at all. Sometimes the water comes right up through small cracks in the floor, even with the sump pump running.

Shannon and Shandy (whom I call the Tweedles, collectively) are still here. Dawn was going to be giving her a 30 day move out notice at the beginning of March, but she decided that Shannon deserves the month to find a job since she told her she needed to find a job in March. Not that she needed to have a job by March. *rubs bridge of nose and sighs heavily*

Tweedle Sr (TS) has had a grand total of ONE job interview since March 1, and that was last week. Now Dawn is waiting to see if she gets the job she interviewed for (CSR for a regional bank call center). If I had to make a guess, I would say No, she didn't get the job. It's a new call center with 50 openings. You can guarantee that a minimum of 200 people applied, and of those 200 I would say at least half had call center experience. Tweedle Sr has been living off of her daughter's SSDI for the last several years.

I've talked to Dawn several times about setting a firm date on when she is going to have "the talk" with the Tweedles. She hems and haws and makes excuses.

A few of the reasons that she needs to go:

• TS barely keeps her bathroom clean. There is literal fecal matter splashed on the toilet. Not to mention the used toilet paper that has been deposited in the waste basket. And I don't mean used as in "blew the snot out of my nose". I mean used as in "wiped my ass after some explosive diarrhea".
• She refuses to socialize and just stays in her bedroom for hours at a time, only venturing out to make something for her daughter to eat.
• Speaking of food: She leaves leftovers sitting on the counter all day and sometimes over night. They are in plastic containers, but un-refrigerated. Just left out on the counter to stay warm. This is food with meat, sauces, cheese, etc. It's not like it's some veggies that she left out, because neither of them eat ANY vegetables. TS goes as far as to even pick out onions from something that has been cooked. Actually, I take that back, they will eat potatoes.
• She is "broke" but apparently has the funds to buy random stuff off Amazon. She gets almost daily packages from them, and I have no idea what is in most of them.
• Personal hygiene is a suggestion, not a practice.
• Does not help with the chores around the house (vacuuming, dusting, dishes, etc) unless she is reminded or asked to do it. Both D and I work all day long. The least she could do is the occasional dish in the sink, but she will ONLY wash dishes that either her or her daughter use. There could be a bowl or plate in the sink from the night before or the morning when D is putting together her lunch for the day, and it will sit there. She will wash around it. I usually end up doing the dishes at lunch. I don't mind. Helps keep the communal area clean.

That is the short list. I'm not even going to start about her personality and her sense of entitlement and that everyone owes her for her existence. Her daughter has the same attitude and has learned well at her mother's knee.

I'm just about done with it. D is going to have to drop the hammer on those two soon or I'm gone. I don't know where I'll go or anything like that, but I cannot stay in this house much longer with those two. For my own sanity, I can't. Only bad thing is I promised my next move would be out to the Seattle area, but I cannot afford that right now.

[RoadScholar]

You need to move, hon. Forget the requirement of leaving the area. Move wherever you can.

That situation is never going to get better. Cut and run.

[MN-Skeptic]

The very best advice I've ever had is "You can't control what other people do. You can only control what you do."

It's clear you have to give a definite ultimatum to Dawn. Tell her in no uncertain terms that if things don't change by a specific date, you WILL give your notice. Then follow through.

I'm really, really hoping for the best for you.

[Suranis]

I concur with the Red Crab. Much hugs to you, you deserve some luck.

[DejaMoo]

Oh Jez, I feel for you, I really do. Stuck between three people, none of whom will do what's right, only what easiest for each of them.

I do think your friend/landlady has stated her boundaries, just not clearly enough: she finds it easier to let couple of free-loading pigs live with her than to get rid of them. That's her choice, but it can't be yours.

I ordinarily would never suggest this, but given the circumstances...while you're looking for another place to live, you might want to start withholding all or part of your rent now, telling her that the terms of your agreement did not include having to deal with biohazards, pigs, and the additional cleaning issues they require. I doubt that's legally kosher, but if she lacks the spine to evict these two, she probably won't confront you, either - and then you can save up that money for your next first/last/deposit.

[Suranis]

Yeah it sounds like the Landlord is intimidated by the squatters. An alternative plan is to ask can you throw them out on the landlords behalf if she feels she cant face doing it. And then get a friend to help you throw their shit out onto the street if neccesery.

I'm being harsh, but these people sound like serial squatters to me, people who move from friends couch to friends couch and cause havoc till they get kicked out.

[Maybenaut]

Yeah it sounds like the Landlord is intimidated by the squatters. An alternative plan is to ask can you throw them out on the landlords behalf if she feels she cant face doing it. And then get a friend to help you throw their shit out onto the street if neccesery.

I'm being harsh, but these people sound like serial squatters to me, people who move from friends couch to friends couch and cause havoc till they get kicked out.

I don’t recommend that. I don’t know from Ohio, but there are processes in most states for dealing with recalcitrant tenants. Where I live in Virginia, it is more expensive to fail to follow the process than it is to let them squat.

[DejaMoo]

If Jez wanted to try to salvage her living situation (but why is it always on the imposed-upon party to make the effort?), she could try to get social services involved, see if they could come up with different housing for Mama Pig and Daughter Pig.

But they sound like professional deadbeats, and the pros won't leave unless/until they're either forced out or paid to go away. Savvy landlords consider a payoff part of the cost of doing business, since it's just a matter of time until they get a problem tenant. In the cases of low-income tenants, the usual advice is to offer them somewhere between $200-$1000 cash to move out within 24 hours, cash payable the very moment they've vacated the premises. Because these types tend not to think about their futures, short-term cash offers tends to be very persuasive. Plus it's usually cheaper for the landlord than going through the eviction process.

[Jez]

A small bit of good news. Tweedle Senior actually got a job. She starts in May. D and I are plotting... Erm talking about when to get her out. Until then, I am going to look for other living arrangements. It may be here in Ohio, or I may just bite the bullet and go out to the PNW.

I have much to think about.

Edited... Stupid typos on phone.

[Jez]

She definitely got a job. $12/hr at a call center, full time. Which is great. Starts May 21.

On Friday, D took Tweedle Sr for her drug test for the job (pee in a cup type thing) and on the way back, took her on a tour of some of the apartment complexes in the area.

Tweedle got all excited about getting her own place once she saw some of the apartment complexes. Most were even in her price range. We told her to contact HR and get an offer letter so she can have some sort of "proof of income" if they ask for it.

So, I'm hopeful that by June 1, she will be out of this house and my stress levels will decrease and we can finally get rid of the cockroaches she brought with her from Louisiana.

[RoadScholar]

Crossin’ mah fingers for ya, hon.

[Azastan]

She definitely got a job. $12/hr at a call center, full time. Which is great. Starts May 21.

On Friday, D took Tweedle Sr for her drug test for the job (pee in a cup type thing) and on the way back, took her on a tour of some of the apartment complexes in the area.

Tweedle got all excited about getting her own place once she saw some of the apartment complexes. Most were even in her price range. We told her to contact HR and get an offer letter so she can have some sort of "proof of income" if they ask for it.

So, I'm hopeful that by June 1, she will be out of this house and my stress levels will decrease and we can finally get rid of the cockroaches she brought with her from Louisiana.

Ooooh, that would be lovely.

[maydijo]

Having a job and her own place to live will do wonders for her self-esteem and may well encourage her daughter to follow her example (at least with regards to a job - whether or not the daughter has the capacity to live independently is another matter.) And it would give you and your friend a much more comfortable and happy home. Win -win!

[Turtle]

TS really sounds like a guy who has only previously lived with other guys. Maybe she has brothers.

[Jez]

TS really sounds like a guy who has only previously lived with other guys. Maybe she has brothers.

Not really. She and her daughter are part of that "cycle of poverty" that you read and hear about. And maybe have even experienced. Her, and from what she had said just about her entire family have worked menial jobs and have been on assistance for generations. It is what they are used to. There is no way she would have gotten a $12/hr job where she lived in Louisiana, so I am hoping for her sake, and her daughter's, that she will be able to stick with it and work hard and get ahead.

I'm leery though. Just this morning she was talking about apartments near where she works and how one would be a 20 minute uber ride and she would have to find the money to take the uber to and from work every day... and I piped up "Well, there is always the bus". She doesn't seem too keen on that idea and would rather waste daily what it would cost for a month's pass for the bus.

It would probably only be for a few weeks until she is eligible to start working from home in August. Would she have the discipline to work from home? I have no idea. She is generally lazy, so my guess is she wouldn't. I think she would do best in a structured, monitored environment.

And yes, her daughter is capable of working, given accommodations. She was born completely blind, but is smart enough. Zero social skills, but that is probably something that can be learned with practice. If I can fake social graces, anyone can.

[maydijo]

Poor Tweedle Jr. She has, no doubt, been raised to define her life in terms of "can't." When our son took his pre-school assessment we were told he'd never have more than 50 words and that "deaf kids don't read past a fourth grade level." After the initial shock wore off we said, "Challenge accepted." In the 3rd grade he was testing at a 5th grade reading level (and he also has a very advanced vocab for his age.) But so many parents would say, "Oh well, deaf kids can't read, that's just the way it is." Tweedle Jr has to fight, not only the pull of inter-generational poverty, but also those voices that have told her her entire life, "You can't do that." She needs to find a social support service that works with adults with handicaps, that can empower her to take control and gain the confidence to actually get out there and find gainful employment.

[Jez]

D has officially let the Tweedles know they have to move out by June 1. Somehow, she got approved for a $850/mo apartment, which would be about one of her net paychecks (paid biweekly). How that happened I don't know. Most places only approve if your rent is 1/3 or less of your income. I wish her well and hope she makes it.

She wasn't very happy to say the least. Her "perfect place" (said with the inflection of a 7 year old) isn't available until July 1. But, the complex she is looking at has places available mid-May. I am going to do my damndest to make sure she has the means to get out before the end of may. I'll even drive the damn U-haul if necessary.

D told her that she has signed up for a "Traveling Nurses" site to provide a room for nurses that are on temporary assignment. She has a friend that travels to various hospitals in California and stays in houses or provided apartments for about 3 months at a shot. She told Tweedle that we have to have the "rooms" ready by July 1, letting her think that I am staying in the basement, when in reality, I'm moving my bedroom upstairs once the room is fumigated, walls repaired, repainted, and carpeting replaced.

To say that it feels like a ton has been lifted from my shoulders is an understatement. Just need to survive the next few weeks until she is gone.

[RoadScholar]

IMG_0299.jpg

[DejaMoo]

D has officially let the Tweedles know they have to move out by June 1. Somehow, she got approved for a $850/mo apartment, which would be about one of her net paychecks (paid biweekly). How that happened I don't know. Most places only approve if your rent is 1/3 or less of your income. I wish her well and hope she makes it.

Here's what I don't get. If she had a disabled daughter, she should've been on the Section 8 housing vouchers list while her daughter was young, and that would've given her years to finally move to the top of the list and get a voucher. Plus, when her daughter turned 18, being that she's disabled, she would've qualified in her own name for a Section 8 housing voucher. So why did they move? And why so far away?

Also - there's a good chance this mom's being paid by the gov't to be her daughter's caregiver, which would provide the two of them with additional income. That would make it easier for her to afford a non-Section 8 rental, as would the additional income from her daughter's disability check.

At any rate, good riddance.

[DejaMoo]

Poor Tweedle Jr. ... She needs to find a social support service that works with adults with handicaps, that can empower her to take control and gain the confidence to actually get out there and find gainful employment.

This is the United States, remember, which means the worst thing this young woman could do for herself as a disabled person is find a full-time job. Reason: she'd lose her disability, her Medicaid insurance, and (assuming she's got one) her subsidized housing voucher. Being that all of those benefits are based on her being too disabled to be gainfully employed, she actually has a decent level of security there. Were she to exchange it for a full-time job, chances are the job would have very poor or no benefits, low pay, and no job security, meaning she'd probably be unable to afford an apartment, lose her Medicaid and be unable to afford replacement coverage, have to pay for transportation to/from work, and worst of all - lose everything if/when she loses that job.

A childhood friend found herself in that very situation. I have to keep explaining to my family why she cannot, dares not, look for a job. The infuriating thing is, she's mentally retarded and my family knows that, but they bitterly resent the fact that she's got a cheap apartment, a monthly check, and free medical.

[TollandRCR]

We really have a humane, rational system for helping the disabled to cope, don't we?

Almost as good as St. Ronnie's reforms of our system for care of the mentally ill. (Sarcasm through and through)

(To be fair, Reagan had a lot of psychiatrists favoring the closing of mental hospitals. Pills made them unnecessary -- if community support was available. Why did Europeans not fall for this swill?)

[Jez]

The Tweedles did apply for housing vouchers in Ohio and Indiana. They are on a waiting list for approval, and yes, it would be in Jrs name. I think Ohio said their waiting list was 2 years, and Indiana was over a year.

The reason they moved from LA it OH was "To start fresh and have a better life". That was the reasoning she gave. The actual truth (which kinda came out later) was so she could be closer to her online boyfriend who lives in Indiana. In LA she was at least two days drive. Here, it's only a couple of hours. She basically used D and I to get closer to the Significant Other. I don't think if D hadn't pushed her about it, she would not have a job now and would still be living off her daughter's income. And no, I don't think she gets anything for being the care giver, unless it's included in Jrs monthly SSDI check.

But yes, good riddance. I am counting the days. I'm considering starting a go fund me for her to so she can leave much earlier.

[Sugar Magnolia]

And on a happier note, I saw some really pretty bird cages at the Kroger yesterday and thought about you.

[maydijo]

Poor Tweedle Jr. ... She needs to find a social support service that works with adults with handicaps, that can empower her to take control and gain the confidence to actually get out there and find gainful employment.

This is the United States, remember, which means the worst thing this young woman could do for herself as a disabled person is find a full-time job. Reason: she'd lose her disability, her Medicaid insurance, and (assuming she's got one) her subsidized housing voucher. Being that all of those benefits are based on her being too disabled to be gainfully employed, she actually has a decent level of security there. Were she to exchange it for a full-time job, chances are the job would have very poor or no benefits, low pay, and no job security, meaning she'd probably be unable to afford an apartment, lose her Medicaid and be unable to afford replacement coverage, have to pay for transportation to/from work, and worst of all - lose everything if/when she loses that job.

A childhood friend found herself in that very situation. I have to keep explaining to my family why she cannot, dares not, look for a job. The infuriating thing is, she's mentally retarded and my family knows that, but they bitterly resent the fact that she's got a cheap apartment, a monthly check, and free medical.

All of those things are available here too; but here, the safety net is designed so that you'll always be better off with a job than without one. It's pathetic that wages and benefits are so low in the US that it makes better economic sense not to work.

[June bug]

Poor Tweedle Jr. ... She needs to find a social support service that works with adults with handicaps, that can empower her to take control and gain the confidence to actually get out there and find gainful employment.

This is the United States, remember, which means the worst thing this young woman could do for herself as a disabled person is find a full-time job. Reason: she'd lose her disability, her Medicaid insurance, and (assuming she's got one) her subsidized housing voucher. Being that all of those benefits are based on her being too disabled to be gainfully employed, she actually has a decent level of security there. Were she to exchange it for a full-time job, chances are the job would have very poor or no benefits, low pay, and no job security, meaning she'd probably be unable to afford an apartment, lose her Medicaid and be unable to afford replacement coverage, have to pay for transportation to/from work, and worst of all - lose everything if/when she loses that job.

A childhood friend found herself in that very situation. I have to keep explaining to my family why she cannot, dares not, look for a job. The infuriating thing is, she's mentally retarded and my family knows that, but they bitterly resent the fact that she's got a cheap apartment, a monthly check, and free medical.

All of those things are available here too; but here, the safety net is designed so that you'll always be better off with a job than without one. It's pathetic that wages and benefits are so low in the US that it makes better economic sense not to work.

In this case, the major problem isn't the wages and benefits being so low. It's the fact that someone with a disability, who may be limited to low wage, no benefit jobs at least initially, loses their safety net if they take one.