Russia Invades Ukraine
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
It would not surprise me if one of Moskova's missiles blew up in its launch tube.
Hic sunt dracones
- pipistrelle
- Posts: 7775
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:27 am
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Scuttlebutt is Neptune missiles. E.g.,
Edit: Forbes is skeptical:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... skeptical/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... skeptical/
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Looks like the reports of the Moskva being hit were true.
Russian MoD claimed that an “onboard fire caused an ammunition explosion” on the flagship (yeah, and I’m the Queen of England) and all 500+ crew were evacuated.
Which probably means at least half the sailors are dead.
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Its a special underwater operation.
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Yes, the official line is that it was not sunk by enemy fire, but that the Crew was totally incompetent.
#Russiansbestliars
#Russiansbestliars
Hic sunt dracones
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
To be fair, claiming that there was some kind of ammo explosion, for a Russian ship, is one of their more plausible claims. Old poorly maintained equipment and stockpiles of aging munitions and all that.
- bill_g
- Posts: 6660
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:52 pm
- Location: Portland OR
- Occupation: Retired (kind of)
- Verified: ✅ Checked Republic ✓ ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I'm fine with the Russians blowing themselves up.
- keith
- Posts: 4260
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:23 pm
- Location: The Swamp in Victorian Oz
- Occupation: Retired Computer Systems Analyst Project Manager Super Coder
- Verified: ✅lunatic
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I've sorta been waiting to see the Ukrainians plug a ship or two, but I didn't expect it to be the goddam flagship.
If it was an accident that destroyed the effing FLAGSHIP what does it say about the crews on other lower profile ships?
If it was an accident that destroyed the effing FLAGSHIP what does it say about the crews on other lower profile ships?
Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls Would scarcely get your feet wet
- Notaperson
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:08 pm
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Lots of seemingly knowledgeable people on Twitter this morning are saying the ship was sunk. However the Pentagon is saying the it's still afloat. Russia says it is towing the ship back to port.
Also seeing rumors that MANY of it's 500+ crew were killed. No hard news on that though.
Also seeing rumors that MANY of it's 500+ crew were killed. No hard news on that though.
- Gregg
- Posts: 5502
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:54 am
- Location: Cincinnati, Gettysburg
- Occupation: We build cars
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
They were preparing Bananas Foster because things were going so well, when a banana fell and started a small fire, all is fine now....
Bullshit!
It was Crêpes Suzette
Bullshit!
It was Crêpes Suzette
Supreme Commander, Imperial Illuminati Air Force
You don't have to consent, but I'm gonna tase you anyway.
You don't have to consent, but I'm gonna tase you anyway.
- John Thomas8
- Posts: 5936
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:42 pm
- Location: Central NC
- Occupation: Tech Support
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
The New York Times has this up...
Is there only one flagship at a time for the Russian Navy or are there others in different locations?13 minutes ago
Michael Schwirtz Reporting from Ukraine
The Russian Defense Ministry says its naval flagship Moskva has sunk in the Black Sea while being towed in a storm. Ukraine had claimed it hit the cruiser with a missile. Moscow denied the ship had been hit by a missile, but acknowledged it was on fire.
-
- Posts: 4388
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:50 pm
- Location: Down here!
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Usually one flagship per fleet.
So one for the Nortthern Fleet, one for the Pacific Fleet, a replacement for the Baltic..
So one for the Nortthern Fleet, one for the Pacific Fleet, a replacement for the Baltic..
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Technically a "flagship" is the one that the commanding officer of the fleet, usually an Admiral, has his Flag, or command post. It means that's where he is siting, commanding his fleet. It comes from a time a commander would have his ensign flying to indicate that's where he was.
In more modern times it has come to mean the most powerful/advanced ship in the fleet. Still, you have to wonder where the Fleet Command was.
And ya, I was thinking today that taking the ship in tow and bringing it to port for repairs is an easy way for the Russians to prove this claim, that it was sunk, was BS. Having the ship in Dry Dock is a big clue it did not sink. Hearing that the Russians now say it was "sunk in a storm" is pretty much telling me that yes, the Ukrainians sunk it.
If Western Media had any balls at all they would just call them liars to heir face.
The Russians also said all 500 crew made it off. I shall say a prayer for their souls.
In more modern times it has come to mean the most powerful/advanced ship in the fleet. Still, you have to wonder where the Fleet Command was.
And ya, I was thinking today that taking the ship in tow and bringing it to port for repairs is an easy way for the Russians to prove this claim, that it was sunk, was BS. Having the ship in Dry Dock is a big clue it did not sink. Hearing that the Russians now say it was "sunk in a storm" is pretty much telling me that yes, the Ukrainians sunk it.
If Western Media had any balls at all they would just call them liars to heir face.
The Russians also said all 500 crew made it off. I shall say a prayer for their souls.
Hic sunt dracones
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Off topic, but I'm reading my book on the WW1 naval war. Yesterday I read that after the Battle of the Dogger bank in 1915, the flagship of the British Battlecruiser Squadron, HMS Lion, was left a wreck. It took something like 22 hits as opposed to the German Flagship Seydlitz taking 3.
But the British Government did not want to admit how much damage their ship took in the battle, so rather than put it in proper dry dock in London they brought it to a little known anchorage in North England and laid it on its side while they replaced pretty much the entire hull plaiting. A worker recorded that it was pretty undignified to treat their ship like that.
But they wanted to portray the battle as a smashing success in the spirit of Nelson, so they all pretended the Ship didn't exist for the better part of a year.
But the British Government did not want to admit how much damage their ship took in the battle, so rather than put it in proper dry dock in London they brought it to a little known anchorage in North England and laid it on its side while they replaced pretty much the entire hull plaiting. A worker recorded that it was pretty undignified to treat their ship like that.
But they wanted to portray the battle as a smashing success in the spirit of Nelson, so they all pretended the Ship didn't exist for the better part of a year.
Hic sunt dracones
- pipistrelle
- Posts: 7775
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:27 am
- raison de arizona
- Posts: 20219
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:21 am
- Location: Nothing, Arizona
- Occupation: bit twiddler
- Verified: ✔️ he/him/his
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61103927Sunken Russian warship Moskva: What do we know?
Russia's flagship Black Sea missile cruiser has sunk after being "seriously damaged", Russian state media says.
The defence ministry said ammunition on the Moskva exploded in an unexplained fire and that the ship tipped over while being towed back to port.
Ukraine claims it struck the vessel with its Neptune missiles.
The 510-crew warship had led Russia's naval assault on Ukraine, which made it an important symbolic and military target.
Earlier in the conflict the Moskva gained notoriety after calling on Ukrainian border troops defending Snake Island in the Black Sea to surrender - to which they memorably radioed a message of refusal which loosely translates as "go to hell".
Unexplained fire or a missile attack?
Prior to the sinking, Russia's defence ministry issued a statement saying "the vessel is seriously damaged. The entire crew have been evacuated".
To the towing ship?
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
- johnpcapitalist
- Posts: 942
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:59 pm
- Location: NYC Area
- Verified: ✅ Totally legit!
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
I was thinking it would be a great psychological victory if the next Ukrainian missile target was the Admiral Kuznetsov, the "aircraft carrier" that's the pride of the Russian navy. Unfortunately, it's in Murmansk and has been for a few years while they try to make it seaworthy again. It may sink at the pier at the rate they're going. For some reason, I thought it was in Sebastopol, but apparently it's not allowed into the Black Sea, as carriers are banned from transiting the Bosporus by treaty.
It was a typical Russian navy ship, surrounded by tugboats when it ventured away from port, so they didn't have to endure the humiliation of hiring someone else's rescue tug when it inevitably breaks down. It's a lot of fun to read about the incredible incompetence surrounding the design, construction and operation of this piece of floating junk. In particular, the boilers are sometimes so unreliable that they can only keep one of them running at a time, which gives the thing a top speed of four knots when that's happening. That's not enough to launch aircraft, especially since they were too cheap to bother to put catapults on it; all they have is the "ski ramp" that almost all non-US carriers use.
Of course, it's not like anyone in the Russian navy has any experience in carrier landings, because the thing has spent so much time in port being fixed. I don't think it's moved in the last four years. So even if they could enable takeoffs, the landings are not going to go well.
Here's the carrier's final rotting place:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Murma ... 33.0855849
It was a typical Russian navy ship, surrounded by tugboats when it ventured away from port, so they didn't have to endure the humiliation of hiring someone else's rescue tug when it inevitably breaks down. It's a lot of fun to read about the incredible incompetence surrounding the design, construction and operation of this piece of floating junk. In particular, the boilers are sometimes so unreliable that they can only keep one of them running at a time, which gives the thing a top speed of four knots when that's happening. That's not enough to launch aircraft, especially since they were too cheap to bother to put catapults on it; all they have is the "ski ramp" that almost all non-US carriers use.
Of course, it's not like anyone in the Russian navy has any experience in carrier landings, because the thing has spent so much time in port being fixed. I don't think it's moved in the last four years. So even if they could enable takeoffs, the landings are not going to go well.
Here's the carrier's final rotting place:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Murma ... 33.0855849
- Slim Cognito
- Posts: 7259
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:15 am
- Location: Too close to trump
- Occupation: Hats. I do hats.
- Verified: ✅
- Slim Cognito
- Posts: 7259
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:15 am
- Location: Too close to trump
- Occupation: Hats. I do hats.
- Verified: ✅
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Speaking of submarines, there's nothing that scares the carp out of me more than a sunken sub story. I read the true story of the K-9 Widowmaker (and I also saw the H. Ford movie, which got a few things right but...Hollywood, amirite?) I believe one of the things the movie got right was that, after the nuclear sub melted down (lingo?) Russia wanted to tow it back with all the crewmen still on board...the contaminated submarine. Which is why the captain ended up sinking it.
My point being, to stay on topic, is I wouldn't be surprised if dozens of men or more were killed in the original blast/fire and whomever survived could very easily have been forced to stay on board to try to keep the boat afloat, with no regard for their safety. If that's the case, who knows how many drowned from that.
My point being, to stay on topic, is I wouldn't be surprised if dozens of men or more were killed in the original blast/fire and whomever survived could very easily have been forced to stay on board to try to keep the boat afloat, with no regard for their safety. If that's the case, who knows how many drowned from that.
x5
- Gregg
- Posts: 5502
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:54 am
- Location: Cincinnati, Gettysburg
- Occupation: We build cars
Re: Russia Invades Ukraine
Missile? Foolish. Of course not, Mighty Russian ship not sunk by attack, merely sailor who was cleaning left plug out by mistake...
Supreme Commander, Imperial Illuminati Air Force
You don't have to consent, but I'm gonna tase you anyway.
You don't have to consent, but I'm gonna tase you anyway.