Russia Invades Ukraine

[Suranis]

It would not surprise me if one of Moskova's missiles blew up in its launch tube.

[pipistrelle]

It would not surprise me if one of Moskova's missiles blew up in its launch tube.

Scuttlebutt is Neptune missiles. E.g.,

Edit: Forbes is skeptical:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... skeptical/

[Kendra]

Looks like the reports of the Moskva being hit were true.

Russian MoD claimed that an “onboard fire caused an ammunition explosion” on the flagship (yeah, and I’m the Queen of England) and all 500+ crew were evacuated.

Which probably means at least half the sailors are dead.

[Chilidog]

Its a special underwater operation.

[Suranis]

Yes, the official line is that it was not sunk by enemy fire, but that the Crew was totally incompetent.

#Russiansbestliars

[neeneko]

To be fair, claiming that there was some kind of ammo explosion, for a Russian ship, is one of their more plausible claims. Old poorly maintained equipment and stockpiles of aging munitions and all that.

[bill_g]

I'm fine with the Russians blowing themselves up.

[keith]

I've sorta been waiting to see the Ukrainians plug a ship or two, but I didn't expect it to be the goddam flagship.

If it was an accident that destroyed the effing FLAGSHIP what does it say about the crews on other lower profile ships?

[Notaperson]

Lots of seemingly knowledgeable people on Twitter this morning are saying the ship was sunk. However the Pentagon is saying the it's still afloat. Russia says it is towing the ship back to port.

Also seeing rumors that MANY of it's 500+ crew were killed. No hard news on that though.

[Gregg]

They were preparing Bananas Foster because things were going so well, when a banana fell and started a small fire, all is fine now....



Bullshit!

It was Crêpes Suzette

[John Thomas8]

[Estiveo]

[p0rtia]

Ukrainian Farmer Tows Battleship.jpg (125.41 KiB) Viewed 861 times

[much ado]

The New York Times has this up...

13 minutes ago
Michael Schwirtz Reporting from Ukraine

The Russian Defense Ministry says its naval flagship Moskva has sunk in the Black Sea while being towed in a storm. Ukraine had claimed it hit the cruiser with a missile. Moscow denied the ship had been hit by a missile, but acknowledged it was on fire.

Is there only one flagship at a time for the Russian Navy or are there others in different locations?

[Estiveo]

[Dave from down under]

Usually one flagship per fleet.

So one for the Nortthern Fleet, one for the Pacific Fleet, a replacement for the Baltic..

[Suranis]

Technically a "flagship" is the one that the commanding officer of the fleet, usually an Admiral, has his Flag, or command post. It means that's where he is siting, commanding his fleet. It comes from a time a commander would have his ensign flying to indicate that's where he was.

In more modern times it has come to mean the most powerful/advanced ship in the fleet. Still, you have to wonder where the Fleet Command was.

And ya, I was thinking today that taking the ship in tow and bringing it to port for repairs is an easy way for the Russians to prove this claim, that it was sunk, was BS. Having the ship in Dry Dock is a big clue it did not sink. Hearing that the Russians now say it was "sunk in a storm" is pretty much telling me that yes, the Ukrainians sunk it.

If Western Media had any balls at all they would just call them liars to heir face.

The Russians also said all 500 crew made it off. I shall say a prayer for their souls.

[Notaperson]

[Suranis]

Off topic, but I'm reading my book on the WW1 naval war. Yesterday I read that after the Battle of the Dogger bank in 1915, the flagship of the British Battlecruiser Squadron, HMS Lion, was left a wreck. It took something like 22 hits as opposed to the German Flagship Seydlitz taking 3.

But the British Government did not want to admit how much damage their ship took in the battle, so rather than put it in proper dry dock in London they brought it to a little known anchorage in North England and laid it on its side while they replaced pretty much the entire hull plaiting. A worker recorded that it was pretty undignified to treat their ship like that.

But they wanted to portray the battle as a smashing success in the spirit of Nelson, so they all pretended the Ship didn't exist for the better part of a year.

[pipistrelle]

The Russians also said all 500 crew made it off. I shall say a prayer for their souls.

Where would they have made it off to? And how?

[raison de arizona]

Sunken Russian warship Moskva: What do we know?

Russia's flagship Black Sea missile cruiser has sunk after being "seriously damaged", Russian state media says.

The defence ministry said ammunition on the Moskva exploded in an unexplained fire and that the ship tipped over while being towed back to port.

Ukraine claims it struck the vessel with its Neptune missiles.

The 510-crew warship had led Russia's naval assault on Ukraine, which made it an important symbolic and military target.

Earlier in the conflict the Moskva gained notoriety after calling on Ukrainian border troops defending Snake Island in the Black Sea to surrender - to which they memorably radioed a message of refusal which loosely translates as "go to hell".

Unexplained fire or a missile attack?
Prior to the sinking, Russia's defence ministry issued a statement saying "the vessel is seriously damaged. The entire crew have been evacuated".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61103927

To the towing ship?

[johnpcapitalist]

I was thinking it would be a great psychological victory if the next Ukrainian missile target was the Admiral Kuznetsov, the "aircraft carrier" that's the pride of the Russian navy. Unfortunately, it's in Murmansk and has been for a few years while they try to make it seaworthy again. It may sink at the pier at the rate they're going. For some reason, I thought it was in Sebastopol, but apparently it's not allowed into the Black Sea, as carriers are banned from transiting the Bosporus by treaty.

It was a typical Russian navy ship, surrounded by tugboats when it ventured away from port, so they didn't have to endure the humiliation of hiring someone else's rescue tug when it inevitably breaks down. It's a lot of fun to read about the incredible incompetence surrounding the design, construction and operation of this piece of floating junk. In particular, the boilers are sometimes so unreliable that they can only keep one of them running at a time, which gives the thing a top speed of four knots when that's happening. That's not enough to launch aircraft, especially since they were too cheap to bother to put catapults on it; all they have is the "ski ramp" that almost all non-US carriers use.

Of course, it's not like anyone in the Russian navy has any experience in carrier landings, because the thing has spent so much time in port being fixed. I don't think it's moved in the last four years. So even if they could enable takeoffs, the landings are not going to go well.

Here's the carrier's final rotting place:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Murma ... 33.0855849

[Slim Cognito]

Ukrainian Farmer Tows Battleship.jpg

Ima steal that.

[Slim Cognito]

Speaking of submarines, there's nothing that scares the carp out of me more than a sunken sub story. I read the true story of the K-9 Widowmaker (and I also saw the H. Ford movie, which got a few things right but...Hollywood, amirite?) I believe one of the things the movie got right was that, after the nuclear sub melted down (lingo?) Russia wanted to tow it back with all the crewmen still on board...the contaminated submarine. Which is why the captain ended up sinking it.

My point being, to stay on topic, is I wouldn't be surprised if dozens of men or more were killed in the original blast/fire and whomever survived could very easily have been forced to stay on board to try to keep the boat afloat, with no regard for their safety. If that's the case, who knows how many drowned from that.

[Gregg]

Missile? Foolish. Of course not, Mighty Russian ship not sunk by attack, merely sailor who was cleaning left plug out by mistake...