Russia Invades Ukraine

[bob]

Which is why Ukraine's requesting former Soviet Blocs' planes is intriguing. No one can stop Russia from making any rationalization. But Ukrainians' flying Soviet planes isn't worth whining about.

[Kriselda Gray]

Douglas MacGregor, nominated by Trump as ambassador to Germany; appointed by Trump as sr advisor to the Secretary of Defense, says Russian forces have been “too gentle” and “I don’t see anything heroic” about Zelensky.

This is the Putin wing of the GOP.

Fuckwit sure knows how to pick 'em. Disgusting.

[Kriselda Gray]

Interesting article on and analysis of the use of no-fly-zones, and why (beyond the obvious risk of WWIII) it's not a great idea here:

Excerpt:

The fact that Russia does not yet have air superiority has not significantly impeded its advance. Ukraine does not control its skies either — the two sides have air parity. Enforcement of a no-fly zone would require overflight of Ukrainian airspace, putting coalition forces directly in the air space both sides are fighting over — and at extreme risk from both Russian and Ukrainian air defenses. Surface-based air defenses in bordering nations could only command airspace where Russian aircraft aren’t flying, having no practical effect except to commit NATO. The obvious Russian response, attacking aircraft over Ukraine from outside Ukraine, would be yet another escalatory element that would render Russian air defenses politically immune from counterattack.

From a distant viewpoint, the no-fly zone might seem like a somewhat impersonal option for the employment of military force. The reality is that effective enforcement involves flying over territory where fighting is occurring, and enforcing a no-fly zone means the intent to kill anything that opposes it — whether a fighter in the air or a missile system on the ground.

More at the link, including an overview of the past use of no-fly-zones: https://warontherocks.com/2022/03/the-d ... -fly-zone/

[Kendra]

It was a couple of days ago, but I'm pretty sure it was retired General Barry McCaffrey on MSNBC made very compelling points about why the no fly zone was a no-go.

Of all the retired generals now all over the cable news airwaves, he's always been one of my favorites.

[John Thomas8]

I posted a link to the state of Germany's army early, in one of the 30+ threads, but it is a surprize to me how poorly Russia's army/combined arms are doing at this point.

[Volkonski]

I had thought to change my long time avatar to a non-Russian. However checking the book I find that Prince Andre's estate was 40 miles east of Smolensk which would put it in Belarus. A technicality, perhaps, but I am too lazy to change my avatar.

[poplove]

Sting, playing the song that's been popping up in my head since this whole thing started.

[Kriselda Gray]

Sting, playing the song that's been popping up in my head since this whole thing started.

Damn. That made cry - just like it did the first time I remember hearing it so many years ago...

[Volkonski]

[Maybenaut]

Off Topic

The melody the cellist is playing is a sample of Serge Prokofiev’s “Romance,” which was part of an original musical score of a soviet-era move, Lieutenant Kije, released in 1934. Lieutenant Kije was a comedy about a non-existent officer in the Russian Imperial Army who was invented to cover up a clerical error, and hilarity ensued.

I also hear “The Troika Song” from that same movie here in the US at christmas time, but it’s not really christmas music - it takes place during a chase scene, IIRC.

Prokofiev was also the composer of Peter and the Wolf. We had a recording that had Zero Mostel reading the story on one side, and just the music on the other. My dad used to read the story. I loved it.

[Notaperson]

Interesting thread on Russia's logistics problems. Apparently Russia forgot that when you wage a heavy ground war you need a lot of trucks.

[Volkonski]

[Gregg]

Corduroy roads like that were used by the British in the run-up to the Battle of Saratoga, too also.


But I have no idea how a horsie is supposed to keep good footing on a surface like that. That's gotta be brutal on the horsies.

General Sherman's engineers famously were able to build 10-14 miles of corduroys per day as his armies rampaged through the Carolinas in 1865.

And probably the horses were off to the side assuming there was stable ground there. Or maybe they had planks on top of the logs?

They split the logs and put the flat side up, using brush to fill the gaps. By the time a regiment had gone over it, it was as flat and hard as an Interstate.

[bill_g]

I know Russia isn't a member of the ICC (neither are we) but is there any organization that could hold them responsible for their war crimes? Are they a party to the Geneva Convention? What kind of enforcement does it provide?

We have to get to the other side of this "conflict" first. Then we'll know what ramifications will come from it. What is evident is these guys are as bright as J6 insurrectionists straming their triumphs. It will be another bit of technology that will get used against them.

[Kriselda Gray]

Off Topic

The melody the cellist is playing is a sample of Serge Prokofiev’s “Romance,” which was part of an original musical score of a soviet-era move, Lieutenant Kije, released in 1934. Lieutenant Kije was a comedy about a non-existent officer in the Russian Imperial Army who was invented to cover up a clerical error, and hilarity ensued.

I also hear “The Troika Song” from that same movie here in the US at christmas time, but it’s not really christmas music - it takes place during a chase scene, IIRC.

I believe the song you're hearing at Christmas time is "I Believe in Father Christmas" by Greg Lake (of Emmerson, Lake and Palmer fame.) It's absolutely gorgeous and deeply cynical, but its probably the only song I look forward to hearing at Christmas time anymore. If I can dig it up on YouTube I'll drop it in the music thread.

[New Turtle]

There seems to have been some problems in Belarus, if it's legit, it will probably show up on the big networks later today. Word is their top general resigned because he ordered the troops to join the invasion and everyone down the chain was like fukk no, we're not equipped for that fight. Guessing they heard what happened to the Russians who invaded from the same place and got stuck in the mud.

[New Turtle]

A reporter on the ground say the Russians have since shelled this spot and killed at least 3 civilians.

[Maybenaut]

Off Topic

The melody the cellist is playing is a sample of Serge Prokofiev’s “Romance,” which was part of an original musical score of a soviet-era move, Lieutenant Kije, released in 1934. Lieutenant Kije was a comedy about a non-existent officer in the Russian Imperial Army who was invented to cover up a clerical error, and hilarity ensued.

I also hear “The Troika Song” from that same movie here in the US at christmas time, but it’s not really christmas music - it takes place during a chase scene, IIRC.

I believe the song you're hearing at Christmas time is "I Believe in Father Christmas" by Greg Lake (of Emmerson, Lake and Palmer fame.) It's absolutely gorgeous and deeply cynical, but its probably the only song I look forward to hearing at Christmas time anymore. If I can dig it up on YouTube I'll drop it in the music thread.

Off Topic

No, I’m hearing Prokofiev’s Troika Song.

[Kriselda Gray]

Off Topic

The melody the cellist is playing is a sample of Serge Prokofiev’s “Romance,” which was part of an original musical score of a soviet-era move, Lieutenant Kije, released in 1934. Lieutenant Kije was a comedy about a non-existent officer in the Russian Imperial Army who was invented to cover up a clerical error, and hilarity ensued.

I also hear “The Troika Song” from that same movie here in the US at christmas time, but it’s not really christmas music - it takes place during a chase scene, IIRC.

I believe the song you're hearing at Christmas time is "I Believe in Father Christmas" by Greg Lake (of Emmerson, Lake and Palmer fame.) It's absolutely gorgeous and deeply cynical, but its probably the only song I look forward to hearing at Christmas time anymore. If I can dig it up on YouTube I'll drop it in the music thread.

Off Topic

No, I’m hearing Prokofiev’s Troika Song.

Off Topic

Yes, thats the music Lake built "I Believe in Father Christmas" around, much like how Sting built "Russians" around Prokofiev’s "Romance". I posted Father Christmas in Music-free-for-all

[Maybenaut]

Off Topic

I believe the song you're hearing at Christmas time is "I Believe in Father Christmas" by Greg Lake (of Emmerson, Lake and Palmer fame.) It's absolutely gorgeous and deeply cynical, but its probably the only song I look forward to hearing at Christmas time anymore. If I can dig it up on YouTube I'll drop it in the music thread.

Off Topic

No, I’m hearing Prokofiev’s Troika Song.

Off Topic

Yes, thats the music Lake built "I Believe in Father Christmas" around, much like how Sting built "Russians" around Prokofiev’s "Romance". I posted Father Christmas in Music-free-for-all

Off Topic

I see. I’ve never heard the Greg Lake song.

[Suranis]

Farmer.jpg (75.46 KiB) Viewed 731 times

[Kendra]

Just heard that Brian Stelter is going to demonstrate how CNN is geo-locating social media videos from Ukraine before airing them.

[Luke]

Fox News @FoxNews Mar 6, 2022
A NEW EMPIRE: Diplomat hints at Putin’s plans for Europe after Ukraine invasion. https://fxn.ws/3HNOIIb

OrlyLicious @Orly_licious
Is that Murdoch on the right? "#FoxNews Ukrainian Invasion Celebration Spectacular" is barely satire. Stars #Jan6thCommission Subpoenaess #KimGuilfoyle addict/dope #TrumpJr #TuckerCarlsonRussianAsset & Stray Orange Hair To Be Flicked Off. #StandWithUkraine

Fox News' Laura Ingraham (Kate McKinnon) and Tucker Carlson (Alex Moffat) host a Ukrainian Invasion Celebration Spectacular with special guests Donald Trump (James Austin Johnson), Steven Seagal (Bowen Yang), Donald Trump Jr. (Mikey Day) and Kimberly Guifoyle (Cecily Strong).

[Foggy]

As much as we're all outraged and sickened by the pointless violence and this stupid war ... as much as the world is reacting as one, supporting the Ukrainians in their hour of need ...

Take a minute and think how the rest of the world must have felt when we did the same thing to Iraq eighteen years ago, based on nothing but a bunch of lies about Weapons of Mass Destruction being given to al Qaeda, which Saddam didn't even like. And there were no WMD. Bush stopped talking about the WMD the minute the war started, and never raised the subject again. The WMD were only the excuse, the pretext, for starting the invasion and occupation of a country that had nothing, repeat nothing, to do with the attacks on 9/11.

Russia tried to duplicate what we did, but they weren't prepared and they don't have the military we have, the finest in all the world. But ... to our shame ... we invaded and occupied a sovereign nation based solely on a dishonest pretext, and killed many more thousand innocent Iraqis than the Russians have killed Ukrainians, thus far.

I know Saddam was not Zelenskyy. I know there were other differences. But I think Americans should remember what we did, this week. We have less of a right to criticize than some nations.

[Slim Cognito]

Crap. I hate it when reality rears it’s ugly head.