Assault on the Capitol (DC)

[Frater I*I]

What specific level of stupidity made Clyde say something that blatantly absurd? Where are the damn adults in the GOP?

His district is GA-9 [Doug Collins old seat] which encompasses NE GA [making him Tinfoil-Greed's neighbor], which is the real Deliverance country. The people in far north GA aren't like the rest of humanity, they live in an alternate universe.

[Kendra]

Court has unsealed Jan 6 case against Jeremy Brown. Per charging docs, Brown is former US House candidate from Florida who planned to bring an RV called "Ground Force One" to DC & "carried zip ties attached to his belt, as well as a radio, surgical trauma shears.. tactical gear"

Sounds touristy.

[Kendra]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/capitol- ... 230d2095e4

The FBI has arrested a mother-and-son duo accused of entering House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office during the Jan. 6 attack at the U.S. Capitol after the pair were successfully identified by online sleuths.

Maryann Mooney-Rondon and Rafael Rondon were arrested on Friday, a law enforcement official told HuffPost.

The two arrestees ― whom online sleuths working under the #SeditionHunters moniker nicknamed “AirheadLady” and “AirheadBoy” because the pair emerged from the Capitol wearing stolen emergency escape hoods ― will face a host of federal charges. More details on the cases are forthcoming.

HuffPost first learned of the Rondons’ identities from online investigators back in May, after the FBI mistakenly raided the home of Marilyn Hueper, an Alaska Trump supporter who resembled Maryann Mooney-Rondon and was on the grounds of the Capitol on Jan. 6. The raid was a pretty serious blunder by the bureau, which has now made more than 600 arrests in connection with the Capitol attack.

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

How does she do it?

One word...

Dachshunds


All I can say.

[Uninformed]

“Rachel Maddow shares never before published audio recordings of Park Police communications on January 6th, obtained by CREW, that police struggling with the aggressive Trump mob as early as 9:30 a.m. at the Washington Monument. Rep. Jamie Raskin, who serves on the House Select Committee investigating January 6th reacts.”

[Gregg]

They charge extra for beating a cop with a blunt object.

[Volkonski]

[Kendra]

It's possible Jan 6 defendant Anna Morgan Lloyd complicated matters for the 600+ other defendants.. .by giving interview with FOX News shortly after her tearful remarks at her sentencing

Note this footnote in court order in another case ===>

[Uninformed]

“What Led A Police Chief Turned Yoga Instructor To The Capitol Riot?”:


“In 2019, Alan Hostetter posted a 20-minute "sunset gong meditation" on his YouTube channel.
In the video, he stands on a Southern California cliffside in a white tunic, wearing a turquoise bandana over long hair and a full salt-and-pepper beard. He speaks of "peace and tranquility," over an image of himself hitting a gong in front of a golden sun.
Less than a year later, he was fantasizing aloud about the Founding Fathers hanging California Gov. Gavin Newsom and stating that traitors to the country "need to be executed as an example."
Now, Hostetter is facing a criminal indictment alleging that he conspired with anti-government, extremist militiamen to bring chaos to the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 and obstruct Congress from conducting the peaceful transfer of power.
More than 500 people are now facing criminal charges related to the attack on the Capitol six months ago. And the case of Alan Hostetter reveals how the 2020 protests that began as a response to coronavirus-related lockdowns helped fuel a far-right movement supported by Republican political figures and may have contributed to the Capitol riot.”

[Kendra]

The latest Jan. 6 defendant, Lawrence Dropkin Jr. of New Jersey, was nabbed via FaceTime screenshot.

[FiveAcres]

Does it seem to anyone else that acquaintances of people participating in the Jan 6 insurrection have been unusually willing to drop a dime on the participants? Perhaps the participants simple aren't very nice people.

[Slim Cognito]

There's your sign.

[Gregg]

Does it seem to anyone else that acquaintances of people participating in the Jan 6 insurrection have been unusually willing to drop a dime on the participants? Perhaps the participants simple aren't very nice people.

I'm sure some of them are like some of the mental giants I know who are still trying to convince me of the error of my ways despite me trying to ignore them when they do. I still have some, though not many, acquaintances who are all in on various nonsense, most of whom are tits deep in "Stop the Steal" but also any number of other whacky beliefs. One guy at work, a college educated man who functions in society, has been trying to convince me for no less than 5 years that Anna Von Pop Tart is gonna bring it all down ANY DAY NOW. I know a woman who is responsible for a large business unit who thinks Trump is still President "in sekrit" because the liberal media just refuses to tell the truth and Trump isn't in the White House for...reasons.

We empowered the ignorant and I'm really getting tired of it, to be honest.

[Sam the Centipede]

We empowered the ignorant and I'm really getting tired of it, to be honest.

Yabbut it's not simple ignorance. Ignorance is not having information or knowledge, and perhaps making bad decisions because of that. All of us are ignorant of many things.

Theirs is something different: it's a wilful denial of reality, a refusal to appreciate that if the vast majority of well-functioning adults disagree with you, then it is necessary to apply honest critical thinking. They are dishonest.

That critical thinking includes looking for simple evidence from other sources, without applying the conspiracy theorists' rool of prufe: "I see no evidence! That proves the conspiracy good even deeper than we suspected!" Your friend supporting Anna von Strudel ought to be saying "surely if Anna's crap is true, there would be more signs of her impact than a few pages on a scruffy website and requests for donations?" He chooses not to.

I blame fundamentalist christianity in part: when preachers praise pure faith over reason, they lead their flocks down the dark path towards a bog of stupidity. Faith is sometimes defined as belief without evidence, but it can be worse than that. It is choosing to believe things that are not true, do not appear to be true, and refusing to consider evidence against, however strong and well-sourced.

Hence the faith in the wholly implausible idea of a stolen presidential election. To the extent that the nutjobs don't even consider how completely implausible it is that longstanding and loyal Republican administrators in a county like Maricopa would rig the vote for the Democrat candidate!

[Suranis]

I blame fundamentalist christianity in part: when preachers praise pure faith over reason, they lead their flocks down the dark path towards a bog of stupidity. Faith is sometimes defined as belief without evidence, but it can be worse than that. It is choosing to believe things that are not true, do not appear to be true, and refusing to consider evidence against, however strong and well-sourced.

Hence the faith in the wholly implausible idea of a stolen presidential election. To the extent that the nutjobs don't even consider how completely implausible it is that longstanding and loyal Republican administrators in a county like Maricopa would rig the vote for the Democrat candidate!

I would disagree. Recently I read a study on American behaviours and it actually identifies Christian Nationalism as a driving force in this. It did not identify religiosity as a particularly significant driving force at all.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jssr.12677

Culture Wars and COVID-19 Conduct: Christian Nationalism, Religiosity, and Americans’ Behavior During the Coronavirus Pandemic
Samuel L. Perry, Andrew L. Whitehead, Joshua B. Grubbs,
First published: 26 July 2020
https://doi.org/10.1111/jssr.12677
Citations: 22

Editor's Note: This paper was not peer-reviewed. Given the topic, it was given an expeditated review and is published based on the editor's review only.

Abstract

During the COVID-19 pandemic, Americans’ behavioral responses were quickly politicized. Those on the left stressed precautionary behaviors, while those on the (religious) right were more likely to disregard recommended precautions. We propose the far right response was driven less by partisanship or religiosity per se, but rather by an ideology that connects disregard for scientific expertise; a conception of Americans as God's chosen and protected people; distrust for news media; and allegiance to Trump―Christian nationalism. Analyzing panel data collected in the thick of the COVID-19 crisis, we find Christian nationalism was the leading predictor that Americans engaged in incautious behavior like eating in restaurants, visiting family/friends, or gathering with 10+ persons (though not attending church), and was the second strongest predictor that Americans took fewer precautions like wearing a mask or sanitizing/washing one's hands. Religiosity, in contrast, was the leading predictor that Americans engaged in more frequent precautionary behaviors. Findings document that Christian nationalism, not religious commitment per se, undergirded the far-right response to COVID-19 that disregarded precautionary recommendations, thus potentially worsening the pandemic.


Introduction

Among the many factors contributing to the comparatively high number of cases and fatalities in the United States throughout the COVID-19 pandemic was how quickly the pandemic itself became absorbed into partisan culture wars (Newport 2020; Singal 2020). Polls quickly showed that Americans who were more on the political left were more likely to stress the need to protect physically vulnerable (elderly or immune compromised) populations by shutting down social and business activities, sheltering in place, and wearing masks (Igielnik 2020). Those on the political right, in contrast, were more likely to feel the mortal threat of the pandemic was exaggerated by the news media, businesses and social activities should resume as quickly as possible, and that mask-wearing should either be voluntary or avoided as a useless or even freedom-encroaching practice (Igielnik 2020; Newport 2020; Pew Research Center 2020).

At the center of these debates was not only politics, but religion. Specifically, polls and rapid-response studies have also shown that Americans who were more religious or religiously conservative (e.g., evangelicals) were more likely to distrust scientific and media sources over the President (Burge 2020a), and subsequently less likely to social distance, wear masks, or otherwise take recommended precautionary measures, while more secular Americans were more likely to follow these guidelines (Burge 2020b; Fowler 2020; Hill, Gonzalez, and Burdette 2020). This religious divide may have exacerbated partisan divisions on strategies for overcoming the virus and potentially both heightened the morbidity and mortality threat as well as extending it over time (Hill et al. 2020).

Though religious factors undoubtedly played a role in shaping Americans’ divergent behavioral responses to the COVID-19 pandemic, we propose that pollsters and studies have utilized imprecise measures that might misattribute patterns to religious affiliations or religiosity per se rather than Americans’ specific political theologies or conceptions of public religion, which we argue are likely far more important. More specifically, we theorize that divergent behavioral responses to the COVID-19 pandemic were more strongly shaped by a hyper-partisan and ultra-conservative ideology that has already been shown to lower Americans’ trust in science and scientific expertise (Baker, Perry, and Whitehead 2020a); promote a view of (conservative Christian) Americans as God's chosen, divinely protected people (McDaniel, Nooruddin, and Shortle 2011; Whitehead and Perry 2020); bind them to siding with Trump (Baker, Perry, and Whitehead 2020b; Whitehead, Perry, and Baker 2018), and likely reject information put forth by mainstream news media (Thomson, Park, and Kendall 2019)―what we and others term “Christian nationalism.” Drawing on panel data collected before and during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, we examine how Christian nationalism shaped Americans’ incautious or precautionary behavioral responses to the crisis, while accounting for key sociodemographic, political, and religious characteristics.

[fierceredpanda]

I blame fundamentalist christianity in part: when preachers praise pure faith over reason, they lead their flocks down the dark path towards a bog of stupidity. Faith is sometimes defined as belief without evidence, but it can be worse than that. It is choosing to believe things that are not true, do not appear to be true, and refusing to consider evidence against, however strong and well-sourced.

Hence the faith in the wholly implausible idea of a stolen presidential election. To the extent that the nutjobs don't even consider how completely implausible it is that longstanding and loyal Republican administrators in a county like Maricopa would rig the vote for the Democrat candidate!

I would disagree. Recently I read a study on American behaviours and it actually identifies Christian Nationalism as a driving force in this. It did not identify religiosity as a particularly significant driving force at all.

You say po-tay-to,
And I say po-tah-to.
You say to-may-to,
and I say to-mah-to.
Po-tay-to, po-tah-to,
To-may-to, to-mah-to.
Let's call the whole thing off.

It's the authors are literally repackaging fundamentalist Christianity as "Christian Nationalism," and then saying religiosity has nothing at all to do with the problem. In America these days, that's a distinction without a difference. To be a fundamentalist Christian in the United States is to be a Christian Nationalist. I understand your desire to defend Christianity from your perch on the other side of the pond, but the number of fundamentalist Christians in the US who are not also pro-Trump nationalists in favor of setting up a theocracy is exactly zero.

Now, if we want to dig in further on the problem, I would suggest that perhaps the fons et origo of it all is the willingness to believe propositions on no evidence whatsoever. After all, there's no difference in principle between these three claims, unsupported as they all are by anything other than bare assertion:

1) "I believe the world was created by an invisible man in the sky because an old book says so."
2) "I believe Donald Trump won the election because he says so."
3) "I believe vaccines are dangerous because random people on Facebook and Telegram say so."

[neeneko]

It's the authors are literally repackaging fundamentalist Christianity as "Christian Nationalism," and then saying religiosity has nothing at all to do with the problem. In America these days, that's a distinction without a difference. To be a fundamentalist Christian in the United States is to be a Christian Nationalist. I understand your desire to defend Christianity from your perch on the other side of the pond, but the number of fundamentalist Christians in the US who are not also pro-Trump nationalists in favor of setting up a theocracy is exactly zero.

I see it has saying the quiet part out loud. In a way, Christian Nationalism is indeed independent of religiosity, but in a way that a lot of religion is anyway. It is all about what religion you are, not the actual structures or beliefs of the religion.

[Suranis]

but the number of fundamentalist Christians in the US who are not also pro-Trump nationalists in favor of setting up a theocracy is exactly zero.

I understand your desire to goad me into a shouting match because I'm the god boy, but that's not true by any sense of the imagination.

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/08/93226351 ... 3519789960

A notable fact in 2016 was that exit polls showed about 80% of white evangelical Christians supported Trump in spite of his unfamiliarity with the Bible, his divorces, his vulgar rhetoric and his association with porn stars. Trump's reputation in moral terms hasn't changed all that much during his time in office, but there is little evidence of slippage among these faith voters.

Surveys of early voters and exit polls this year showed between 76 and 81% of white evangelical and "born again" voters supporting Trump, according to the National Election Pool and AP/Votecast.

"We essentially have White evangelicals, somewhere around 8 in 10, supporting the president, standing by their candidate, standing by their man," says Jones.

1 in 5 is a long, long way from zero, and they are the group that most supported the former guy.

[snark]Stop having a faith based belief in something despite all evidence showing that it is not true[/snark]

Oh, and the NPR story also showed that the former guy had lost a lot of Support among Catholics.

[Maybenaut]

[Sam the Centipede]

Apologies for the threadjack, I was musing on the reason why the absence of basic critical thinking skills is so prevalent in America, and any divergence or questioning is suppressed in the Trumpist Sphere. Clearly that is a generic issue, not germane to the specifics of the Assault on the Capitol.

Where cause and effect separate, difficult to know.

[bill_g]

Ruth opened up the Religious Threadjack just in time for something like this.

[johnpcapitalist]

One guy at work, a college educated man who functions in society, has been trying to convince me for no less than 5 years that Anna Von Pop Tart is gonna bring it all down ANY DAY NOW.

Wow! I'm envious. You actually have met a follower of pretend judge Anna in the flesh! That's both repulsive and sort of cool at the same time. I must be running with the wrong crowd. Of course, you're in the heartland of Real Amurca there and I'm in effete, snobby Librul New England.

[Mr brolin]

My view (worth every Quatloo paid for it) is that this denialism in the US is an almost inevitable gradualist fallout starting from the 60's through early 70's and Vietnam until now.

Obeisance and acceptance of authority, governmental, moral and intellectual, was first questioned then outright rejected (for reasons, good, bad and indifferent), received authority was seen as simply a "tool" to keep the people down in the 60's "The Man!!!". an anonymous, faceless tyrant

Through the 70's we had beginnings of progressive loss of "traditional" and hierarchical manual employment, the era of "stagflation", Nixon etc. The counter counter-culture of the conservative right such as Jerry Falwell and Phyliss Schlafly started the beginnings of the culture wars and an increasing gulf between the politics of the left and right. The Oil Embargo by OPEC in the early 70's seemed to point to an America that couldn't holds its way in geopolitics and the ineffectuality of politicians and governance. We also had Prop 13 and the various tax revolts where again, fears of "the other", "the left", "The right" and increasing polarization of opinion continued the undermining of authority or governance.

At this point we had "welfare queen" entering into the vocabulary and opposition to long held "Great Society" ideals simultaneously with pressure groups and ever more niche points expecting ever greater government intervention at local, state and federal level and damn the hindmost. The "Me Generation" as described by Tom Wolfe.

Then we enter the 80's and "Greed is Good", Reagan years and yet Iran-Contra and the rest, a time of societal sociopathy writ large and small in governance and the economy.

Each decade has added greater fragmentation, more insular grouping and the culmination where with social media and in the closed loop communication pathways we have, we have a mass belief in some areas that THEIR reality is THE reality and we end with well, Trump and the Trumpers, screaming about theft, conspiracies, "My RIGHTS", never "Our Responsibilities". No communication outside of echo chambers, "Everyone knows" because dissent never enters, Schotastic Terrorism by meme and Algorithm.

Or I could just need another Codeine 'cause the pain from my knee surgery is killing me.

[Suranis]

I dont think talking about where this came from is off topic as such.

[Foggy]

Sorry about your knee, BTDT, and I think you're mostly right, although at the same time we've made a lot of progress, like LGBT rights and marijuana legalization, a few other things.

In 2008, IIRC, about 125 million people in this great land of ours voted in the presidential election. Last year it was 155 million. Maybe voter suppression isn't working out so much. I admit it's terrifying that 74 million of them voted to give TFA another four years, but I still think history, overall, only moves in one direction, and that's FORWARD.

We took two steps backwards in 2016, but let's not do that again.