Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

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Emma
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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Emma » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:43 am

FDLE firearms analyst testifying now. She says gun was fully loaded with one bullet in the chamber ready to be fired.(edit) Obviously this shows Zimmerman had 'racked' the gun to chamber the round and be ready to shoot ... his attorney is now arguing that police and military have their guns at the ready in this manner so why not George?? He's also arguing that carrying a weapon in this manner is *safe*.

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby SueDB » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:34 pm

Unless you are in combat or an MP, you better not have a round chambered or a loaded magazine in a weapon in many places in the rear. The closer to get to the fight, then you can put the loaded magazine in. Usually you don't chamber a round until the last minute. It saves you from killing your buddies when the gun "goes off by itself".....That is one reason the Army went to a double action 9MM Pistol vs the single action .45 .... The .45 could not carry a round in the chamber safely and you have to cock the slide to load the round. The Beretta on the other hand uses the first pull of the trigger to load AND fire the first round.Anyone who carries a live round in the pipe is asking if he/she can kill you by mistake - just cause.[edit]Cops with 6 shot revolvers only have 5 bullets in the gun. The hammer is left on the empty chamber so that you don't kill someone around you or yourself.[/edit]
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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Sugar Magnolia » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:37 pm

[edit]Cops with 6 shot revolvers only have 5 bullets in the gun. The hammer is left on the empty chamber so that you don't kill someone around you or yourself.[/edit]

Not sure where that info came from, but that was not true when I went through my first police academy training in 1979 and was not something we were ever taught in any academy. That may have been true of some wheel guns carried by detectives, but not ever, to my knowledge, by patrol officers.[edit]I just called my dad, who graduated from the Highway Patrol academy in 1959, and he says they never carried only 5 rounds and could actually get written up during inspection for doing so.[/edit]

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Highlands » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:29 pm

I stopped on CNN last night as I was flipping through channels. Anderson Cooper ( :xo ) had on a panel of guests discussing this case. Mark Gerragos (sp?) was ranting about how he thought the prosecution was deliberately throwing this case because they were pissed off that it was even filed in the first place.
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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Maybenaut » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:43 pm

I stopped on CNN last night as I was flipping through channels. Anderson Cooper ( :xo ) had on a panel of guests discussing this case. Mark Gerragos (sp?) was ranting about how he thought the prosecution was deliberately throwing this case because they were pissed off that it was even filed in the first place.

Personally, I think that's unlikely. The district attorney had discretion in whether to file charges or not. An ethical attorney would have declined to prosecute rather than intentionally tank the case. I assume that the prosecutors like their jobs and their bar licenses enough that they wouldn't do that even if they didn't personally believe it should have been tried.

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Suranis
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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Suranis » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:34 pm

But they might have felt they had to take it to trial due to the public outcry that happened.
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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby MsDaisy » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:37 pm

From Raw Story





Zimmerman laughs in court at deadly force testimony





In his trial for the murder of slain teen Trayvon Martin on Wednesday, former neighborhood watchmen George Zimmerman found a moment of levity during testimony about when it was appropriate to use deadly force.

See video at the link, they even made a laughing Zimmerman gif





[/break1]rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/03/zimmerman-laughs-in-court-at-deadly-force-testimony/]http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/03/z ... testimony/





Smug bastard :evil:

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby BFB » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:41 pm

From Raw Story





Zimmerman laughs in court at deadly force testimony





In his trial for the murder of slain teen Trayvon Martin on Wednesday, former neighborhood watchmen George Zimmerman found a moment of levity during testimony about when it was appropriate to use deadly force.

See video at the link, they even made a laughing Zimmerman gif





[/break1]rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/03/zimmerman-laughs-in-court-at-deadly-force-testimony/]http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/03/z ... testimony/





Smug bastard :evil:



Weelll .. to be fair to the scumbag, the witness made a joke, and other people in the courtroom laughed, too.

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby MsDaisy » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:50 pm

Weelll .. to be fair to the scumbag, the witness made a joke, and other people in the courtroom laughed, too.

Yes, but he's on trial for murdering an unarmed kid and from where he's sitting, nothing should be funny. [-(

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Maybenaut » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:50 pm

But they might have felt they had to take it to trial due to the public outcry that happened.

That's possible. Whether the case goes to trial or not is up to the District Attorney. With respect to the individual prosecutor, from a legal ethics point of view there is no excuse for tanking a trial, in my opinion.

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:55 pm

I don't think the prosecutors are tanking the case. They just have a difficult hand, made more difficult by their own incompetence (most recently they failed to object to a question allowing the head investigator to tell the jury that in his opinion Zimmerman was telling the truth) and a piss poor investigation by the klowns who run the Sanford P.D. Having a dim bulb of a trial judge doesn't help much, either.

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby BFB » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:58 pm

Weelll .. to be fair to the scumbag, the witness made a joke, and other people in the courtroom laughed, too.

Yes, but he's on trial for murdering an unarmed kid and from where he's sitting, nothing should be funny. [-(

I agree with you in theory.

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Maybenaut » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:00 pm

They just have a difficult hand, made more difficult by their own incompetence (most recently they failed to object to a question allowing the head investigator to tell the jury that in his opinion Zimmerman was telling the truth).

Holy crap!

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:01 pm

Yes. It was lovely. They woke up yesterday and realized that they should have objected. So they convinced the judge to give an instruction telling the jury to disregard (as if) in order to clean up their mess.

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Maybenaut » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:08 pm

Yes. It was lovely. They woke up yesterday and realized that they should have objected. So they convinced the judge to give an instruction telling the jury to disregard (as if) in order to clean up their mess.

Whether an expert or an investigator "believes" the person they interviewed, or thinks they're "telling the truth" is very, very, very important to jurors. In the military (like some other jurisdictions -- don't know if Florida is one), the panel members are permitted to ask questions of the witnesses (they write them down, both sides get a chance to object, and if the question is unobjectionable, the military judge will pose the question). Invariably one of the panel members will ask, "Did you believe her?" or "Was he telling the truth?" They ask because they really want to know. And they really want to know because they want support for their own conclusion. No way is an instruction this late in the game going to cure that.

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Emma
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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Emma » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:03 pm

Unless you are in combat or an MP, you better not have a round chambered or a loaded magazine in a weapon in many places in the rear. The closer to get to the fight, then you can put the loaded magazine in. Usually you don't chamber a round until the last minute. It saves you from killing your buddies when the gun "goes off by itself".....That is one reason the Army went to a double action 9MM Pistol vs the single action .45 .... The .45 could not carry a round in the chamber safely and you have to cock the slide to load the round. The Beretta on the other hand uses the first pull of the trigger to load AND fire the first round.Anyone who carries a live round in the pipe is asking if he/she can kill you by mistake - just cause.[edit]Cops with 6 shot revolvers only have 5 bullets in the gun. The hammer is left on the empty chamber so that you don't kill someone around you or yourself.[/edit]

She testified that GZ's pistol was double-action --- and O'Mara went on and on trying to get her to call that a 'safety mechanism'. I think O'Mara stumbled quite a bit on questioning this witness. And, of course, the State did not use it to their advantage.

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Emma
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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Emma » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:05 pm


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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Emma » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:11 pm

Yes. It was lovely. They woke up yesterday and realized that they should have objected. So they convinced the judge to give an instruction telling the jury to disregard (as if) in order to clean up their mess.

Whether an expert or an investigator "believes" the person they interviewed, or thinks they're "telling the truth" is very, very, very important to jurors. In the military (like some other jurisdictions -- don't know if Florida is one), the panel members are permitted to ask questions of the witnesses (they write them down, both sides get a chance to object, and if the question is unobjectionable, the military judge will pose the question). Invariably one of the panel members will ask, "Did you believe her?" or "Was he telling the truth?" They ask because they really want to know. And they really want to know because they want support for their own conclusion. No way is an instruction this late in the game going to cure that.

The prosecutor cited cases that made it clear this shouldn't have been allowed and the judge then gave the jury instructions to disregard. If they'd made the objection as he was testifying would they have been required to cite those cases; if not immediately, would the judge have given them time to find those citations? Or should the prosecution have anticipated this question in the first place and had them ready to cite if the issue came up?

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby kate520 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:22 pm

I don't think the prosecutors are tanking the case. They just have a difficult hand, made more difficult by their own incompetence (most recently they failed to object to a question allowing the head investigator to tell the jury that in his opinion Zimmerman was telling the truth) and a piss poor investigation by the klowns who run the Sanford P.D. Having a dim bulb of a trial judge doesn't help much, either.



It's Florida, Stern. They're doing the best they can. :roll:

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:44 pm

Yes. It was lovely. They woke up yesterday and realized that they should have objected. So they convinced the judge to give an instruction telling the jury to disregard (as if) in order to clean up their mess.

Whether an expert or an investigator "believes" the person they interviewed, or thinks they're "telling the truth" is very, very, very important to jurors. In the military (like some other jurisdictions -- don't know if Florida is one), the panel members are permitted to ask questions of the witnesses (they write them down, both sides get a chance to object, and if the question is unobjectionable, the military judge will pose the question). Invariably one of the panel members will ask, "Did you believe her?" or "Was he telling the truth?" They ask because they really want to know. And they really want to know because they want support for their own conclusion. No way is an instruction this late in the game going to cure that.

The prosecutor cited cases that made it clear this shouldn't have been allowed and the judge then gave the jury instructions to disregard. If they'd made the objection as he was testifying would they have been required to cite those cases; if not immediately, would the judge have given them time to find those citations? Or should the prosecution have anticipated this question in the first place and had them ready to cite if the issue came up?

The latter. It was improper. It's black letter law that it's improper. (Black letter law = you're supposed to know it in your bones if you're a lawyer.)

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Emma
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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Emma » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:53 pm

The latter. It was improper. It's black letter law that it's improper. (Black letter law = you're supposed to know it in your bones if you're a lawyer.)

Wow. Thanks. Just ... wow :-?

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Suranis
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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Suranis » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:58 pm

Hate to say it, but from the little Ive seen pf the trial and the comments here I'd be hard pressed to convict the guy if I was on the Jury, based on the trial alone.
Have you tried the Internet? It's made out of millions of people missing the point of everything and then getting angry about it.

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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Maybenaut » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:08 pm

Hate to say it, but from the little Ive seen pf the trial and the comments here I'd be hard pressed to convict the guy if I was on the Jury, based on the trial alone.

Ultimately what will matter is what gets presented to the jury. A lot of people have posted a lot of facts on here that really do make an exceptionally strong case for guilt. What is not clear to me is whether the jury will have seen or heard all these facts when it comes time to deliberate.

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Emma
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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Emma » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:02 pm

I have to agree with Suranis. The prosecution seems to have dropped the ball while the defense (with few exceptions) has done very well.

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Emma
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Trayvon Martin's MURDER in Sanford, FL

Postby Emma » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:02 pm

Hate to say it, but from the little Ive seen pf the trial and the comments here I'd be hard pressed to convict the guy if I was on the Jury, based on the trial alone.

Ultimately what will matter is what gets presented to the jury. A lot of people have posted a lot of facts on here that really do make an exceptionally strong case for guilt. What is not clear to me is whether the jury will have seen or heard all these facts when it comes time to deliberate.

The State better have one hell of a close.


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